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Easiest color?
#38614
03/17/09 06:43 PM
03/17/09 06:43 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Alright I'll be starting body work on sunday and test piece on monday. I was wondering which is easiest, black or flat black? Which requires more coats and what would happen if I were to sand flat black after every 2 coats and wax at the end  ?
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Re: Fixing up the new Toy
#38615
03/17/09 09:17 PM
03/17/09 09:17 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
Marq,
I'm almost ready with the car..
The dust that is now on the paint on the car,
how can this be removed??? polishing??
or wetsanding with p2000??
I guess it depends on 'how much' dust is on the paint ( or stuck to it ).
If there is a fairly significant layer of dust... I would probably go the 'wash it with some liquid dish soap in a bucket' and hose it down. That would dislodge most surfactants.
In theory if the dust is not too embedded in the paint, you could probably move on to a very very light wetsanding using a minimum 2000+ grit paper, and some running water.
If the dust is barely negigible.. you could just go straight to the polishing stage. 'Polishes' are like a 3000+ grit so it is something like using a finer degree of wetsanding.
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Re: Fixing up the new Toy
[Re: Marq]
#38617
03/18/09 02:40 AM
03/18/09 02:40 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
Marq,
I'm almost ready with the car..
The dust that is now on the paint on the car,
how can this be removed??? polishing??
or wetsanding with p2000??
I guess it depends on 'how much' dust is on the paint ( or stuck to it ).
If there is a fairly significant layer of dust... I would probably go the 'wash it with some liquid dish soap in a bucket' and hose it down. That would dislodge most surfactants.
In theory if the dust is not too embedded in the paint, you could probably move on to a very very light wetsanding using a minimum 2000+ grit paper, and some running water.
If the dust is barely negigible.. you could just go straight to the polishing stage. 'Polishes' are like a 3000+ grit so it is something like using a finer degree of wetsanding.
.
The amount of dust is a fairly significant layer..
So you suggest to use a bucket with lquid soap?
What is the purposel of the soap ??
polishing effect??? or does it wipe the dust off?
And if I use a 2500 grid wetsanding paper,
does this remove the gloss of the paint??
or does this only remove the dust and not the gloss?
Last edited by greenbeauty; 03/18/09 02:42 AM.
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Re: Fixing up the new Toy
#38618
03/18/09 02:12 PM
03/18/09 02:12 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
The amount of dust is a fairly significant layer..
So you suggest to use a bucket with lquid soap?
What is the purposel of the soap ??
polishing effect??? or does it wipe the dust off?
And if I use a 2500 grid wetsanding paper,
does this remove the gloss of the paint??
or does this only remove the dust and not the gloss?
Ok... soap basics 101... the way in which all soaps work is this... the soap molecules encapsulate ( surround ) the dirt, dust, grease particles. Once those elements are encapsulated by the soap molecules, it allows you to rinse them off and they can no longer cling to each other. Since the soap encapsulation forms a strong bond around the dirt particles, it helps to break the bond of the dirt particles that hold it to the surface of the car, or your hair, or your skin etc. That is why the crap on the surface of those various surfaces are referred to as 'surfactants' - in that they are crap on the surface... ( bird poo for this purpose could be politely called a surfactant - even though 'bird poo' is a more descriptive term.
The one thing you have to look out for.. is that I was recommending liquid dish detergent. You have to make sure that it is not one of those 'liquid dish detergents' that has chemicals in it that are designed to stay on the surface that is being cleaned. For example, some dish detergents have vitamin E in them, aloe vera and other things designed to 'make your hands lovlier and softer after washing by hand.
The problem with those type of liquid dish fluids is that you on one hand are removing the dirt and grease, but you may be leaving behind some of these 'added' chemicals which will be left behind even after you rinse the car off. These are possible chemicals that might react adversely if you try to paint over them etc.
Now.. on the topic of the 2500 grit sand paper.. Well yes... initially a 2500 grit sand paper will remove some of the gloss of a top layer of paint. BUT... at some point the physical top layer of paint will reach a smoothness where the whole surface is at roughly one level. At that point it starts to shine and gloss up...
So if you can understand what I am trying to say.... is that all sanding will cut back the original gloss where the sanding is knocking back any rises in the surface. Imagine a mountain range where you are running a giant sand paper over it. At first you would scrape off the peaks of those mountains. And as you continue sanding with your giant sandpaper, you would be sanding away the middle of the mountains. With enough sanding, you would have sanded away all semblance of mountains and have leveled them all down to the level of their valleys.
Ok... so on a gigantic scale, that is what is happening microscopically with the paint on the car. Your initial wet sanding is knocking back the peaks. At that time you will see the gloss being knocked back...
But when you hit the valley level of the paint job your sanding will be now starting to polish that uniform surface.. and the shine and gloss returns. That is why you will eventually take the sandpaper up to the 3000 grit level... because it will be leaving even smaller and more minute scratches.
Let's face it. A lot of folks don't really grasp the magic of sand paper. We all know that it scrapes surfaces smooth... But what a lot of folks tend to skip over is that the various grits of sand paper go from very coarse to ultra ultra smooth. And no matter what grit you are using, they all scratch the surface they are being used on.
Naturally the coarser ( lower number ) grit leaves the largest scratches on the surface it is being used. 120 grit means there are 120 PARTICLES of scraping material per inch on that sand paper. 3000 grit means there are 3000 particles of scraping material per inch on that sand paper. No rocket science needed here to figure out that the particles on that 120 grit paper are physically 25 times LARGER then the particles on the 3000 grit paper. That means the 120 grit paper is leaving scratches that are 25 times larger then a 3000 grit paper.
Soooooooooo.... as we work on the paint jobs... and we go from low grit up to the high grit... we are knocking back the larger scratches and replacing them with smaller and smaller and smaller scratches.
The smaller the scratches left behind.... the shinier and glossier the surface we are sanding...
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Re: Fixing up the new Toy
[Re: plum500]
#38620
03/18/09 09:31 PM
03/18/09 09:31 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
I'd recommend using lots of water and no soap. No point in introducing another variable. Just keep that sandpaper clean, and change it often. Lots of water.
Well.. as I mentioned... the one value of the soap is to encapsulate the dirt/dust/bugs and allow them to be rinsed off easier.
With just water, there is the chance that the static bond of the dust to the small particles may enable them to cling to the body parts ( almost like a magnetic attraction )unless you really are forcibly spraying the water hard at the areas being rinsed.
But you did make me think of another more scarey variable that has to be taken into consideration... and that is the 'quality' of the water you are rinsing with.
Let's face it... some folks in the rural areas or even in the suburbs have what is known as 'hard water' - in that it is heavily laced with chemicals etc. Normally in those areas, the households have 'water softeners' in their house to remove the 'hard water chemicals' for drinking and for laundry. I don't know the overall effect that a 'hardwater' rinsing would have on a coat of fresh paint etc...
Another wild variable that impacts other areas, is where the water is heavily laced with chlorine. The water filtration plants use the chlorine to kill cetain nasties that their water filtration plant is unable to remove via filters. Chlorinate water could be a real beeech on some paints ( probably more affected on the black or very dark paint job ). Usually you can tell if your in an area with overly chlorinated water, just by the taste alone. BUT for some folks who have never known 'real water' or 'simply pure water' and who have always drank chlorinated water, they might not be able to tell that their water is highly chlorinated.
I know that in our city, the water is ranked in the Top Ten for North America... for purity and for taste. And I do know that when I travel and drink a glass of water in smaller towns... well their water usually sucks. To me it has a flat boring taste. I don't know if that means their water is simply not filtrated enough or what their problem is...
Tee hee... see... you raise a question about whether or not to use a bit of liquid detergent ( we are only talking about less then a tablespoon full in a regular size water bucket ), and I go off on a tangent about the quality of water for rinsing in different regions.. 
But I guess the moral to the story is that there are indeed a lot of variables involved in all stages of the painting... and you have to think through how each thing might impact your final result ( temperatures, humidity, water quality, etc etc etc )
.
Last edited by Marq; 03/18/09 09:33 PM.
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Re: Fixing up the new Toy
[Re: Marq]
#38621
03/20/09 03:04 AM
03/20/09 03:04 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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hi guys i done my corolla with brightside marine paint as you may have seen a few weeks back the paint had been on for about 2 months the other day i used some automotive paint on the car and had a serious reaction where it worked like paint stripper and the whole side of the car is fubar. i have fixed it all up and am now going to spraywith cheap export paint in pressure pack cans.
wayne watt
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Re: Fixing up the new Toy
#38622
03/20/09 10:25 AM
03/20/09 10:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,159
Cruising!
QuickDodge
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,159
Cruising!
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Wayne, it's likely the paint on your Toyota was not completely cured yet. I know it was dry to the touch, but many air or moisture cured paints (such as Rustoleum and Brightside) will take 3 to 6 months (or more) to completely cure. The time required is determined by many factors such as temperature, humidity, etc.
One illustration to help you understand this: If you painted the car and then parked it in the garage over night several days later, it's likely that the next morning you could smell fresh paint upon walking into the garage. This smell is gasses being released from the paint into the air in the garage. This process continues for months after the paint it applied. It gradually slows and within a week or so the paint no longer gives off any noticable smell, but it is still releasing solvents at a slower rate.
Some chemicals in regular automotive paint are quite strong. In fact, there are times when one brand of automotive paint will lift another brand of automotive paint. That's why it's best to do a test panel first to verify compatability when changing brands of paint.
There are several ways to reduce the chance of this problem. The first is to use hardner in the enamel paint. I have no idea if it's even available for the brightside paint. Of course when using hardener, one MUST take all the safety precautions necessary for isocyanates. (proper respirator, paint suit, proper gloves, etc.) The painting can't be done in your home garage! This obviously removes this option from consideration for most of the folks on this board.
The second option is to use a sealer between the brightside and the traditional automotive paint. Talk to your automotive paint store about this option. The store fellows will probably have no idea what will work with a marine paint. So you may need to ask them how to paint over some synthetic enamel which was applied without any hardner.
The third option is to wait a longer period of time before applying the automotive paint.
A forth option is to find a brand of automotive paint which has chemicals which are not as strong.
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Flat black car
[Re: QuickDodge]
#38623
03/20/09 02:31 PM
03/20/09 02:31 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I'll be painting my car flat black but am concerned about how hard it must be to keep it clean. Was wodnering if polishing would ruin flat black totally, or just give it a semi-gloss like finish
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Re: Fixing up the new Toy
#38625
03/20/09 10:43 PM
03/20/09 10:43 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
hi guys i done my corolla with brightside marine paint as you may have seen a few weeks back the paint had been on for about 2 months the other day i used some automotive paint on the car and had a serious reaction where it worked like paint stripper and the whole side of the car is fubar. i have fixed it all up and am now going to spraywith cheap export paint in pressure pack cans.
wayne watt
A lot of those 'touch up' or 'matching' type spray paints are lacquer based. That would tend to eat most enamels like Tremclad or even polyurathanes like Brightside. It is sort of like apply pure acetone on the paint ( sort of like nail polish remover ).
Then again, those touch up paints also react rather nastily against 'original' automotive paint jobs. I know that with one of my cars, there were some 'road chips' on the front of the hood. So I bought a 'matching' touch up paint ( I think it was called Duplicolor )... and I sprayed a bunch of it in to the cap of the spray can. I let it swish around a little to evaporate some of the 'carrier' and thicken up the paint. I then used a Q-Tip as a paint brush and dabbed a little of it in to the road chips to fill the hole and protect the metal that had be exposed. Within 1 minute the edges of the original paint around the chip hole began to pucker up and curl. The little drop of paint from the aerosol was actually eating away at the original paint.
So I guess the moral to the whole story is to stick with compatible type paints when touching up. And if you don't know for sure whether it is going to be compatible, well... do a little patch 'test' in some obscure and hidden spot on the area to be painted.
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Re: Hole...
[Re: Marq]
#38627
03/21/09 05:49 PM
03/21/09 05:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 246
middleOnowhere CA
THEYOUNGGUN53
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 246
middleOnowhere CA
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well, technicly the heater uses heater boxes that surround the outside of the exhaust manifolds and the fan inside the shroud blowes air into the boxes and into the car, so your experiance was...unique to any thing I've heard.
and your semi right, the mexico plant just stoped production of the "classic" bug in 2003. A very sad day in the life of a bug fan, I begged and begged my parents to take me down to the farwell serimony but they said it was to much work.
a car is never "done"
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Re: Hole...
[Re: THEYOUNGGUN53]
#38628
03/22/09 12:47 AM
03/22/09 12:47 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
well, technicly the heater uses heater boxes that surround the outside of the exhaust manifolds and the fan inside the shroud blowes air into the boxes and into the car, so your experiance was...unique to any thing I've heard.
and your semi right, the mexico plant just stoped production of the "classic" bug in 2003. A very sad day in the life of a bug fan, I begged and begged my parents to take me down to the farwell serimony but they said it was to much work.
Nope... time to do a little more research... on the various heating systems used on Volkswagons... in other countries... and in particular in cold climate countries - like Canada where I live
The heating system you describe was also known as the German Gas Chamber... it was a known serious flaw of the Beetles and in particular the Volkswagon Camper / Hippie Vans. The deadly flaw ( that only would reveal itself after a number of years... is that with rust, age, cracks etc, the exhaust fumes were piped directly in to the heating chamber and in turn directly in to the passenger compartment.
Here is a quote from a VW web site that describes that particularly fatal design flaw :
Quote:
The heater boxes are known to rust out and/or get really oily. If they are rusted, the boxes should be replaced because of the potential for exhaust to get into the hot air stream. Be especially cautious if you have even a hint of exhaust smell in the passenger compartment. Exhaust contains the deadly gas carbon monoxide, which is colorless and odorless. Only the smell of exhaust may give the hint that there is carbon monoxide in the car.
http://www.vw-resource.com/heat4.html
Now... on to what I was describing regarding the gasoline fed flame thrower heater system in Beetles. I think I understand why you were not exposed to it... you don't live in Canada As you know, Canada has two seasons - winter and summer. Not much else. We are either freezing or roasting. As you also would know... the exhaust system mounted heater box is crap. It can barely heat the Beetle in California on a cool morning. So you can imagine that in Canada the 'stock heater system' just would not cut it up here. So our Beetles were equipped with the flame thrower gasoline fed heater systems...
Quote:
Some folks in the cold north use some kind of heater supplement (usually a gas heater) when driving in the winter.
http://www.vw-resource.com/heat4.html
What I was describing is a genuine gasoline fed heater system that burned gasoline to generate the heat. The best way to describe it... is that when you lifted the hood of the Volks Beetle, connected to the firewall at the drivers side, there was this gizmo that looked like a small cylindrical vacuum cleaner ( we use to call them 'pigs' ). This device was about 22 inches long and roughly 6 inches in circumference. A line fed raw gasoline in to this unit. In the car, there was a thing that could best be described as a choke cable. What you did is you pulled on that knob a couple of times and it basically spritz or vaporized raw gas in to this burner (priming the heater) I forget how we use to instruct the thing to ignite the gas... possibly it was a heater switch that lit up an element to ignite the gas and turn on the heater fan. There was a fairly powerful fan mounted on the one end of this pig that blew air in to the pig, and that air, along with the burning gas would be propelled towards the heating ducts that lead in to the passenger compartment of the car. It was a noisy affair... with that powerful fan blowing and the gasoline igniting. Quite noisy. Almost like standing in the middle of a typhoon. But when it worked... it could completely heat up the insides of a Volks in about 3 minutes.
Something that you might be familiar with...is a heating device used by home builders called a 'Salamander'.. which is a propane powered heating device. It is probably the large scale equivalent to the gasoline powered heater.
At this point.. all the other car owners are probably piddling their pants and laughing at the very thought of have a heater on their car that is basically a gasoline powered flame thrower attached to their 'firewall'...
And at this point you will have a better understanding why I piddled my pants and dumped that entire fire extinguisher into the thing when it caught on fire. I really feared that the fire would spread to the gas line that fed the heater from the gas tank. I was trying to prevent the Volks from being blown sky high...
I tried to find some info about this on the Internet, but the best i could find was a web site that described all the various 'supplemental' gas powered heater systems made for the Volks campers to supplement their exhaust powered heaters.
Anyhow... the whole point to the story is that Canadian and cold climate countries had these flame throwing gasoline powered heaters installed by the factory... so that is why you probably have never seen one in the warmer climates of the States
.
Last edited by Marq; 03/22/09 01:09 AM.
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Adhesion???
[Re: THEYOUNGGUN53]
#38630
03/23/09 08:10 AM
03/23/09 08:10 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Alright its like 0 degrees celsius here and was wondering if I put paint on my rims if it was gonna stick to it?
Wow that sentence is a crapfest lol
Sorry not quite english
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Re: Adhesion???
[Re: 69DartGT]
#38632
03/24/09 12:15 PM
03/24/09 12:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 246
middleOnowhere CA
THEYOUNGGUN53
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 246
middleOnowhere CA
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oh yeah, I love the old pickup buses. No offence but dodge kinda copied them with that. not to mention chevy copied VW in general with the whole rear mounted air coold engin corvair sayng it was state of the art technology when VW had already been doing it since the thirties 
a car is never "done"
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Re: Adhesion???
[Re: THEYOUNGGUN53]
#38633
03/25/09 02:36 AM
03/25/09 02:36 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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marq,
after how many days you suggest to polish the paint to remove the dust pieces?
I'm almost ready with the final coat on the passengerside...
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wow....I stand corrected for the first time in my life. I've read so many books, talked to so many people, read ever magazine related to VW's I could possibly get ever month, and I have never ever heard of this system?
