New Paint job on a budget thread Part III - Moparts Forums

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Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems #37994 02/25/08 04:20 PM 02/25/08 04:20 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada Marq mopar addict
Marq mopar addict Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada	Quote: I was looking at some other projects with people using brightside and notice there was some guys who had orange peel. I thought BS did not to be thinned? Or is it because they soaked the roller and did not roll out the excess paint? All paints have the ability to orange peel if their application is not timed correctly etc. As noted before... but always worth mentioning, orange peel happens when a coat of paint is applied over a previous paint that has not fully cured. The drawing I have always tried to use to explain the orange peel phenomena is this : When the paint is 'curing' you have the sublayer, uncured paint layer and the more quickly curing outer skin : ------------------- outer skin XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX uncured paint layer ___________________ sublayer being painted on So if you look at the above picture the outer skin could have the appearance of being cured and that the paint job has hardened suitably enough to add another coat of paint. BUT as noted in the picture, if you paint it toooooo soon, before that uncured paint layer fully cures, you basically have a : --------- hard surface sitting on XXXXXXXXX a soft uncured surface... which is on _________ a hard sublayer surface. So think of a banana peel on the ground. If you step on the hard outer skin of the banana, the odds are that the soft inner layer of the banana is going to slip and move against the hard sublayer ( the ground ). Sooo... if you add a coat of paint to this setup, the fresh coat of paint will soften the previous cured outer skin that it is painted on. BUT at the same time the new outer skin of the new painted layer will begin curing and tightening up. BUT now the two soft lower layers, with the slightly cured previous outer layer will start to move and shift as the new outer layer hardens up. So the lower trapped previously outer skin will heap and rise like a paved road in the spring. This heaving will cause the orange peel effect to form. THEN as the new outer skin fully hardens, the heaving will all be frozen in the last position they were at while undulating. Gawd... I wonder if anyone can actually follow that attempt to technically explain how orange peel can happen with any paint IF you add another coat before the previous coat ( and not just its outer skin ) is fully cured. .

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems [Re: Marq] #37995 02/25/08 04:53 PM 02/25/08 04:53 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Thanks for the help!

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems [Re: Marq] #37996 02/26/08 01:03 AM 02/26/08 01:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 44 USA _ _Scott_ member
_Scott_ member _ Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 44 USA	Quote: I may stand to be corrected, but my personal thought on the clear coat is that it should be fully removed. Just like any other base you may want to paint over, clear coat must be in good condition and adhering to the the paint beneath it if you want to paint over it. If it's cracking or pealing, then certainly remove it in the areas where it's a problem (usually horizontal areas that get direct UV exposure.) It should be apparent while you are sanding what kind of condition the clear coat is in. It should feather without leaving any sort of edge if it's sticking well. If it's tough to get it to feather without leaving an edge, then it's not sticking well enough to paint over. Another clue that it's not sticking is if it lifts around the edges of where you tried to feather it when you spray primer over it. When in doubt, remove any questionable primer/paint/clear. Never try to bury old problems under new paint, they always come back to haunt you.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #37997 02/26/08 06:10 PM 02/26/08 06:10 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	I'm back with some updates. Picture attached is the second coat on the passenger side. There's more pics on my web page too. Cheers 4227230-P1010889.jpg (407 downloads)

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #37998 02/26/08 06:11 PM 02/26/08 06:11 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	And another... 4227234-P1010892.jpg (295 downloads)

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #37999 02/28/08 12:33 AM 02/28/08 12:33 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Hey all, I just stripped all the paint down (aircraft remover), sanded with 220 then 400 and then laid on the 1st coat (rustoleum gloss black). I used about 65% rustoleum and 35% mineral spirits. Am I right in thinking that I put this 1st coat on way too thick? How can I fix it? Can I just wetsand it before the 2nd coat or could I get by wetsanding after the 2nd coat? First Coat (unsanded)

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #38000 02/28/08 01:53 AM 02/28/08 01:53 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Yup, way too thick. trying rolling out the excess paint in your tray. First coat is sopposed to be REALLY thin. You wont get full coverage till 3rd or 4th coat.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #38001 02/28/08 02:00 AM 02/28/08 02:00 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Yeah that's what I thought. I did get about 90% of the paint off the roller before applying. I guess I need more MS. Thanks for the reply btw. Can I fix the 1st coat with a 400g wetsand when it dries?

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #38002 02/28/08 02:56 AM 02/28/08 02:56 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Yeah that's what I thought. I did get about 90% of the paint off the roller before applying. I guess I need more MS. Thanks for the reply btw. Can I fix the 1st coat with a 400g wetsand when it dries? yep, 400g wetsanding should do the job. I personally use 220g as an "eraser" but again, 400g should be fine. Marq, about how many brightside quarts do you think is necessary to paint my car?

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems #38003 02/28/08 09:43 PM 02/28/08 09:43 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Hi, I was searching the web for cheap paint jobs and found this site. i used this technique to paint my friends car and here are the results after 2 coats of paint over original paint that was wet-sanded down by 600 grit papers. hope it will work out. any comments/advice is all welcome. thanks sorry for the big pics

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems #38004 02/29/08 01:17 PM 02/29/08 01:17 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Are you using brightside, Caiden? how many quarts did you use? BTW nice Z! EDIT Nvm, I think i see a gallon of rustoleum in one of those pics. you say that was 2 coats? is the car originally white? Last edited by M2001; 02/29/08 01:20 PM.

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems #38005 03/01/08 02:06 AM 03/01/08 02:06 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Are you using brightside, Caiden? how many quarts did you use? BTW nice Z! EDIT Nvm, I think i see a gallon of rustoleum in one of those pics. you say that was 2 coats? is the car originally white? the original color was white and i used around 1 and half quarts to coat it 2 times. on the pictures the right side of car was 2 coat left was one haha. we left the car in the garage for one night and tonight we leaving it out in the cold to see how the tough the paint will be.

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems [Re: Marq] #38006 03/01/08 02:11 AM 03/01/08 02:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio dodgeram440 master
dodgeram440 master Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio	Marq, I have a question about your comments about primers. What kind of primer would you recommend for doing the bodywork? I'm removing the emblems and filling in the holes on my 86 Ram and (after welding and grinding) I'm using a thin coat of bondo to smooth it out. (I know, people are going to recommend avoiding bondo, but I've used it before and it works.) I've done one fender I have off the truck to replace the cancerous one on the truck and so far I've used the spray bomb rusto primer. Would I do better rolling the primer on for this or is the spray better for bodywork? I've got some other minor bodywork to do around the rest of the truck, but I was going to roll on a couple coats of primer over the whole truck before painting. I was just wondering if the roll on primer would stick to the sprayed on primer after it had been wet sanded. Thanks.

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems #38007 03/01/08 03:12 AM 03/01/08 03:12 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Quote: Are you using brightside, Caiden? how many quarts did you use? BTW nice Z! EDIT Nvm, I think i see a gallon of rustoleum in one of those pics. you say that was 2 coats? is the car originally white? the original color was white and i used around 1 and half quarts to coat it 2 times. on the pictures the right side of car was 2 coat left was one haha. we left the car in the garage for one night and tonight we leaving it out in the cold to see how the tough the paint will be. A little off topic but, im willing to bet that you got most of your material at The Home Depot?

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems #38008 03/01/08 07:42 PM 03/01/08 07:42 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Ive been spending some time trying to create a shelter of some sort for my project. I managed to pull it off at no expense. Only labor, which still wasnt too bad. I went into the woods and chopped down pine trees ... with a machete Im still not done building it. I ran out of sun. I'll be finished tomorrow. Nothing too serious, but itll get the job done. Here are the pics. These pines trees are thin, but STRONG. When I was cutting them down, i chopped off about %95 of the wood and it was still standing strong. -------------------------- -------------------------- I even got to put back the original grass -------------------------- -------------------------- Oh BTW here is a 3rd coat -------------------------- -------------------------- Spray bomb testing Sorry about the quality. That third coat pic looks so much better in person. My gf lent her camera, the one ive been using, away for a week to her father which is on vacation. Ill post pictures of the makeshift-country-ghetto-pine sol-smelling-shelter tommorrow

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems [Re: dodgeram440] #38009 03/01/08 09:14 PM 03/01/08 09:14 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada Marq mopar addict
Marq mopar addict Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada	Quote: I've done one fender I have off the truck to replace the cancerous one on the truck and so far I've used the spray bomb rusto primer. Would I do better rolling the primer on for this or is the spray better for bodywork? I've got some other minor bodywork to do around the rest of the truck, but I was going to roll on a couple coats of primer over the whole truck before painting. I was just wondering if the roll on primer would stick to the sprayed on primer after it had been wet sanded. Thanks. I would probably go with sanding down the original sprayed on primer and roll on the liquid primer. Like the Brightside primer, you can cut the Tremclad primer with a percentage of the actual paint color to give it a helping hand at getting started towards the eventual color you have chosen. Tremclad / Rustoleum paint is designed to be a rust inhibitor. I assume their primer is also designed to provide rust inhibition. The one nice thing about rolling on a liquid primer is that it will go on thicker... and thereby leave you with a little extra coverage that can be wet sanded to further smooth out the primered surface. The real key will be to make sure that the surface you are primering is sanded down sufficiently to remove the 'furry' feel that aerosol primer would have. .

Re: surface contamination and adhesion problems [Re: Marq] #38010 03/02/08 01:40 AM 03/02/08 01:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio dodgeram440 master
dodgeram440 master Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,590 Piqua, Ohio	Thanks, Marq. After doing the bodywork on this fender, I've wet sanded the primer with 400g, all the fuzzies are gone. So I will go over it with the liquid primer, I guess I should be ok with that. I did sand the hood down to bare metal to clean up a lot of surface rust, and spray primered that. Haven't sanded it yet, but will before I go any further with it. The rest of the truck is just filling in emblem holes and removing the trim studs, so I may just use the spray primer for these areas and cover the whole thing with the roll-on before paint. Thanks for the help.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #38011 03/02/08 03:44 AM 03/02/08 03:44 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Finally finished the roof, in this pic its a bit dusty but you get the idea... 4239809-P1010919.JPG (292 downloads)

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #38012 03/02/08 03:45 AM 03/02/08 03:45 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	And another... More pics here. 4239812-P1010900.JPG (291 downloads)

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #38013 03/02/08 07:43 AM 03/02/08 07:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,988 Warren, MI J Jerry master
Jerry master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,988 Warren, MI	i have a question on how you guys did the door jambs and trunk jambs. did you actually use a roller and brush or did you spray bomb the jambs? Superior Design Concepts 2574 Elliott Dr Troy MI 48083 jerry@sdconcepts.com www.sdconcepts.com Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts www.bcrproducts.com

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