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Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? #379837
07/19/09 10:51 AM 07/19/09 10:51 AM
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cataclysm80 Offline OP
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When I got my 70 Challenger the AC line clip that is just forward of the fender tag had been replaced with a body ground wire from the aftermarket negative battery cable.

1. What is the correct location for the body ground? (I'm thinking it should have a strap from the small block engine to the firewall somewhere?)

2. What is the correct fastener for that AC line clip? What size should the hole be? I want to make sure the hole hasn't been drilled out to the wrong size before I paint the car.

Thank you!
Tav
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379838
07/19/09 12:42 PM 07/19/09 12:42 PM
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Original paint 70 440-4 A/C auto Challenger R/T one owner. Los Angeles plant built car.

-Notice the E5 grease pencil marking. This car is FE5 red. Neat.
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: autoxcuda] #379839
07/19/09 02:11 PM 07/19/09 02:11 PM
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E bodies don't use a strap like the earlier year cars, instead the main battery to engine ground cable has a body ground built in, it runs over to the same bolt the headlight ground attaches to on the radiator yoke, just ahead of the battery...
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #379840
07/20/09 01:26 PM 07/20/09 01:26 PM
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Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379841
07/20/09 02:19 PM 07/20/09 02:19 PM
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I have a one owner Chall with A/C - I think mine may have a hex head screw by the tag but I am going from memory - I do remember the clip because that routing makes it hard to read the tag. I'll check the location/fastener.
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #379842
07/20/09 03:39 PM 07/20/09 03:39 PM
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I have seen another car that used a hex head there, but wasn't sure if it was correct.

Currently the hole in my car by the fender tag is 15/64, which is quite a bit bigger than the 5/32 holes the other clips on the radiator support use.

I'm trying to figure out if I need to weld the hole up and re-drill it smaller before painting the car.

Thanks!
Tav
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379843
07/20/09 03:50 PM 07/20/09 03:50 PM
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Here is a pic of the car I saw. It's a 1972 Rallye that won participants choice best of show at Don Garlits a few year ago. I was really surprised by the win. I thought Daniel Bankers green Hemi Challenger was the nicest car there.

Tav

5364483-B.jpg (337 downloads)
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379844
07/20/09 05:08 PM 07/20/09 05:08 PM
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When asking about the ground wire, were you asking about the fan motor ground? That ground goes to the bottom stud/nut for the wiper motor.
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: RP's R/T's] #379845
07/20/09 05:57 PM 07/20/09 05:57 PM
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No, I was talking about the negative battery cable to body ground that's in Snoopy's picture above.

Thanks for the info on the blower motor though. I always thought that ground wire was Way longer than it needed to be. Now I know why.

Tav
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #379846
07/20/09 06:14 PM 07/20/09 06:14 PM
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Quote:

I have a one owner Chall with A/C - I think mine may have a hex head screw by the tag but I am going from memory - I do remember the clip because that routing makes it hard to read the tag. I'll check the location/fastener.



Nope - My memory sucks - Phillips screw.
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #379847
07/20/09 07:15 PM 07/20/09 07:15 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I have a one owner Chall with A/C - I think mine may have a hex head screw by the tag but I am going from memory - I do remember the clip because that routing makes it hard to read the tag. I'll check the location/fastener.



Nope - My memory sucks - Phillips screw.



Like in the pictures I posted above. That's original.

I have seen other originals like that. Fat headed phillips pan head.
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: autoxcuda] #379848
07/20/09 07:33 PM 07/20/09 07:33 PM
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Yup - Just like your FE5 pics

Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #379849
07/20/09 07:37 PM 07/20/09 07:37 PM
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darn, looks like I'll have to weld it up and re-drill it.

Thanks for the help guys!

Tav
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: Snoopy] #379850
08/21/09 01:05 PM 08/21/09 01:05 PM
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Hey Snoopy, any idea what year / SPD that car in your picture is?

My 8-26-69 SPD Challenger doesn't have a threaded insert there for the ground.

My June of 1970 Cuda does have a threaded insert there.

Are the early cars different? Where do they ground?

Thanks!
Tav
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: FJ5_Fish] #379851
08/21/09 06:35 PM 08/21/09 06:35 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I have a one owner Chall with A/C - I think mine may have a hex head screw by the tag but I am going from memory - I do remember the clip because that routing makes it hard to read the tag. I'll check the location/fastener.



Nope - My memory sucks - Phillips screw.



#10x 1/2" pan head clear zinc phillips screw
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: gtx6970] #379852
08/21/09 09:24 PM 08/21/09 09:24 PM
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Thanks Bill, now I know what size to make the hole.

Tav
Re: 70 E body AC clip by fender tag / body ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379853
08/22/09 01:44 PM 08/22/09 01:44 PM
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Quote:

Hey Snoopy, any idea what year / SPD that car in your picture is?
Are the early cars different? Where do they ground?

Thanks!
Tav



I don't know the SPD, but I have a picture of an Oct 69 Cuda with the weld-in nut.
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379854
08/22/09 02:42 PM 08/22/09 02:42 PM
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Thanks Snoopy, that helps narrow it down considerably.

Anyone out there have an early build car like mine? How does your ground hook up?

Tav
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379855
08/22/09 05:20 PM 08/22/09 05:20 PM
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Tav, I'm guessing you have a square hole in that location? I've seen a few cars where the weld nut wasn't securely welded & it popped out at some point... If that square hole is there & I suspect it is...You can eiter weld in a nut or cheat & install a cage nut...



http://www.mcmaster.com/#cage-nuts/=3axlc7
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #379856
08/23/09 02:44 AM 08/23/09 02:44 AM
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Good suggestion Randy, I've seen those weld in nuts fall out before also. In fact, this car was missing at least four of them that I can think of and I knocked them off other cars at a junk yard and welded them back in place on my car. Not as nice of weld as factory, but they sure won't fall off again.

However, in this instance I don't have a square hole. No indication on either side of the metal that anything was ever there.

Tav

5434760-DSC01915.JPG (240 downloads)
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379857
08/23/09 02:54 AM 08/23/09 02:54 AM
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Here's what the engine compartment looked like when I got the car. The red wire on the right by the fender tag is the battery cable grounding to the chassis. I put that wire there myself because the car didn't have a battery when I got it and I wasn't sure where the ground should go. There was already a hole there, and it was convenient. I just found a bolt that would fit the hole, and away I went. Many years later I learned that hole was for the AC line clip. The AC lines, compressor, and condenser had already been removed from my car when I got it.

Tav

5434764-3.JPG (311 downloads)
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379858
08/23/09 03:08 AM 08/23/09 03:08 AM
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After getting that original 318 running (which took some work) I found it burnt through over a quart of oil in 12 miles. Someone gave me a good 360 and I swapped it into the car. This was almost 10 years ago now. The poor quality Sublime paint job over the original EF8 was exceptionally poor in the engine compartment where they had difficulty masking, so while I had the engine out I cleaned it up and rattle canned it black. (I don't think I'd do that again, but at the time it made sense.)

The engine harness that was on the 318 engine had an old Year One tag on it, but I didn't find anything like that on the headlight harness, so I'm not sure if the headlight harness is original or not. I still have it, and could take another look if it would help.

I believe the headlight ground can be seen in this picture of the engine install next to the AC line clip on the radiator support. This hole has stretched metal on the underside, not like a factory hole. Anybody seen headlights grounded like this before?

Tav

5434771-13.JPG (302 downloads)
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379859
08/23/09 03:09 AM 08/23/09 03:09 AM
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So your left to decide if you make a square hole & duplicate what every other 70 ebody had or.....

Is the radiator yoke original with the body vin? Gotta wonder if that panel got swapped.. I know 73-74 ebodies had differences in the inner fenders, don't know about that panel... It's good your tracking this all down now, it would be a bummer to have to go back later... I trial fit everything multiple times so I won't have problems.. Lots of guys don't & later wish they had...
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #379860
08/23/09 03:22 AM 08/23/09 03:22 AM
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I definitely agree on the trial fitting. The panel is original to the car, body numbers stamped on it match cowl, fender tag, 318 engine, 904 trans, VIN, & title. Door sticker is missing in action.

I'm seriously considering welding a square nut in there, but maybe someone will yet chime in with some info about very early build cars & ground wires?

Tav
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379861
08/23/09 10:04 AM 08/23/09 10:04 AM
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Actually, I believe it was called a pierce nut.
Same style nut used for the steering column to firewall mounting. I don't think it was ever actually welded in, but I could be wrong.
My former challenger has it with a Dec 12 1969 SBD

5435002-pierce-nut.jpg (159 downloads)
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: gtx6970] #379862
08/23/09 11:33 AM 08/23/09 11:33 AM
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That's a nice picture Bill. Any idea where I can buy some of those? It's getting tougher to find ones with good threads in the junkyard I've been visiting.

Tav
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: gtx6970] #379863
08/23/09 11:39 AM 08/23/09 11:39 AM
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On my 4 70's 3 have the square nut and 1 doesn't. The one w/o has VIN ending in 09553 and was built in 9-69 I not sure what the SPD is....I do have the fender tag...Its the car with a roof in my sig.

Last edited by HemiRick; 08/23/09 11:40 AM.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: HemiRick] #379864
08/23/09 11:46 AM 08/23/09 11:46 AM
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Thanks, That's Great news! It seems to confirm that the early cars didn't get the nut. My VIN is 09467 with an August 26 1969 SPD. Your car's not too far after that, So if it's a September car, I bet it's very early September.

Now, the big question... How is the ground hooked up on your car if it doesn't have the square nut?

Tav
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379865
08/23/09 11:57 AM 08/23/09 11:57 AM
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bolt and a nut thru a round hole.

Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: HemiRick] #379866
08/23/09 12:20 PM 08/23/09 12:20 PM
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And as far as you know, that's the way it was from the factory?

Is it this round hole labeled Wiring Ground in this picture, or a different round hole?

What is the bolt & nut like? regular body bolt with washer? Nut with encapsulated washer? Any star washers to bite into the metal?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'd like to get this right on my car.
Thanks for your time!
Tav
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379867
08/23/09 12:45 PM 08/23/09 12:45 PM
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As far as I know this is original (except for the obvious repair), the overall car is very unmolested.

Last edited by HemiRick; 08/23/09 05:04 PM.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: HemiRick] #379868
08/23/09 01:26 PM 08/23/09 01:26 PM
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Thats Cool! Learned something new...

Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: HemiRick] #379869
08/23/09 01:41 PM 08/23/09 01:41 PM
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Many Many Thanks!

Tav
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cataclysm80] #379870
08/23/09 05:34 PM 08/23/09 05:34 PM
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Just a note to add to the confusion, my convert is an even earlir car SPD 823 VIN 1074xx and it HAS the square nut for the ground....What I'm thinking is that if guy on the core support making line left off the square nut that they just used the next avail hole....

Last edited by HemiRick; 08/23/09 05:35 PM.
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: HemiRick] #379871
08/23/09 06:17 PM 08/23/09 06:17 PM
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my cuda 222665 witch im not certain when its built,has the square hole with welded or insert nut.im guessing(just guessing)late dec 69.

Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: cuda-sweden] #379872
08/23/09 06:47 PM 08/23/09 06:47 PM
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The "pilot" '70 e-body pics that have been floating around show a engine ground strap on the back of the engine similar/same as '69 b-bodies. I'll see if I can locate some.
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: 6bblgt] #379873
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Tav, check your firewall for an extra hole.
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: 6bblgt] #379874
08/23/09 11:48 PM 08/23/09 11:48 PM
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Thanks Dan, That's pretty cool! I was hoping you'd chime in.

I just went out and checked all over inside and out where the picture shows,... no extra hole. Oh well.

I don't see a headlight ground on that pilot car.

Got any other pics/info that might have some early build ground wire examples?

Tav
Re: Early 70 E body has different body/Light ground strap? [Re: HemiRick] #379875
08/24/09 02:01 PM 08/24/09 02:01 PM
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Quote:

Just a note to add to the confusion, my convert is an even earlir car SPD 823 VIN 1074xx and it HAS the square nut for the ground....What I'm thinking is that if guy on the core support making line left off the square nut that they just used the next avail hole....



Are both cars built at the Hamtramck Michigan Plant?

J?2??0B VIN B is the letter for Hamtramck.

J?2??0E VIN E is the letter for the LA plant.




My car is a Hamtramck car built on assembly line 2. (EN2 on fender tag)

Tav
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