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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37614
10/22/07 07:23 PM
10/22/07 07:23 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
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Quote:
hello.
so i decided to try this method. i did all the body work primed the car wetsanded and preped it for paint.
i mixed it 1:1 with mineral sprits (im using tremclad/rustoleum), when i apply it on the car its really glossy but this mornign when it dried it was flat no shine whatsoever.
should i be taking out as much pant as i can from the roller then apply very thin coats on the car?
thanks
At this point in your painting adventure you should not be looking for any magical shine to happen with the Tremclad/Rustoleum/mineral spirit.
At this point you are simply building up your thin layers of color so that after x number of coats you will have full coverage of the color over the entire car.
At this point... the 'shine' you see while the paint is wet is simply a good indicator of what you 'should' be able to polish, shine and wax the final coat up to.... You can also use the temporary shine while it is wet to identify areas where you may have to pay a little attention during the wet sanding stages.
One of the reasons I shifted from the Tremclad/Rustoleum method over to the Brightside paint is that the polyurathane of the Brightside DOES keep its shine after each coat of paint is added.
But the Tremclad/Rustoleum is an enamel and because it is cut thin with the mineral spirits, you lose the shine that you would have gotten if you had just slapped 100% Rustoleum/Tremclad on the parts being painted. That is why the final stage of the Tremclad/Rustoleum paint job really needs the polishing and waxing at the end of the job to regain the shine on the Tremclad/Rustoleum paint job.
As you may have noticed... there are three derivatives of this roller at the moment.. :
a ) Just Tremclad/Rustoleum and mineral spirits - which requires more final wet sanding, compounding, polishing and waxing to reach a maximum shine...
b ) Just Brightside and mineral spirit or the Brightside thinner... which requires a little less final wet sanding, polishing and waxing since the final coat would have had more gloss then the final coat of Tremclad/Rustoleum
OR the HYBRID... which I and some others have done :
c ) Where we used the Rustoleum/Tremclad to get the paint and color coverage on the car. Then we switched over to the Brightside to do the final coats of paint. This gives us the benefits of B ( more shine and polyurathane protection ) and some of the cost savings of A ( Tremclad/Rustoleum is cheaper per quart then Brightside ).
At this point in your paint job... go with whatever percentage of paint and mineral spirit that works best for you and does not give you the dreaded 'orange peel'. At this stage this is your primary concern when trying to figure out what percentage of paint to mineral spirit to be using.
Hope this helps
Marq
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: Marq]
#37615
10/22/07 11:57 PM
10/22/07 11:57 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: rbstroker]
#37617
10/23/07 06:45 PM
10/23/07 06:45 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
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mopar addict
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Quote:
I am not clear on what primer/sealer to use. I have a lot of body work done so I am sure that some type of sealer needs to be used before the rustoleum roller process.
We have sort of beaten to death that topic earlier in the thread.... but with both the Rustoleum/Tremclad or Brightside paint you can paint straight over the bodywork.
The only fly in the ointment is that if you have a car of many colors ( ie bondo color different then the majority of body panels etc ), it will probably take extra coats to reach 100% color coverage on the whole car.
The main benefit of using a primer is that it seals the bodywork so that the initial coats of paint over the worked area are not sucked in like fresh paint on an old wall. As noted above, the Rusto/Tremcl and Brights will all perform the function of sealing... but a real primer will possibly save you a coat or two of paint later while trying to reach full coverage.
If you are making a radical shift in the overall color of the paint job of your car, like taking a white car and going black, blue, red etc... or a reverse from a dark car to a light color, then a primer used on the entire vehicle will give the whole car one UNIFORM color to begin painting over.
My paint initial paint, Rustoleum, was applied over scuffed paint, bodyworked and bondo'd areas, fresh fiberglass with a gelcoat, plastic unprimered front and real bumper and several different types of primer. It held up on all those surfaces without any adhesion problems.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37618
10/23/07 11:57 PM
10/23/07 11:57 PM
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Anonymous
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i will get some pics soon and i used 800 then applied the clear KIRKER
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: tett]
#37622
10/24/07 09:14 PM
10/24/07 09:14 PM
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did you guys add Penetrol and mineral spirits? or just Penetrol ?
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: Marq]
#37624
10/26/07 08:26 AM
10/26/07 08:26 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 42
plum500
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Quote:
The only fly in the ointment is that if you have a car of many colors ( ie bondo color different then the majority of body panels etc ), it will probably take extra coats to reach 100% color coverage on the whole car.
The main benefit of using a primer is that it seals the bodywork so that the initial coats of paint over the worked area are not sucked in like fresh paint on an old wall.
I would say the bigger fly is not properly blocking or reducing any waves - especially if you have a collection of repaired and painted surfaces underneath. If you are doing any repairs other than just scuffing your old paint and going over it, and you are putting the paint on something more than just a beater that you don't care about - I say prime the whole thing and block in a more traditional manner as much for this reason as any adhesion or colour coverage concerns. In this case I hit any areas with bare metal with an etch primer first. Sherwin Williams makes great stuff in a can. GBP 988
Either way, with respects to adhesion, many of these paint manufacturers of any alkyd enamel DTM "rust paint" will still recommend a priming before hand to achieve a uniform surface that they can more confidently claim good adhesion among other reasons. Mind you, I've never had any real problems with this stuff flaking off - it does pretty much stick to everything ... I'm just saying...
Colour coverage is definitely an added benefit, but I would say the prime reason (hehe, sorry), for, err, priming it first, is for a nice smooth surface as much as anything.
Past all that, cleanliness is VERY important. I'd still use a good quality grease/silicon remover that leaves no residue vs. mineral spirits. And a tack cloth.
As an aside though, with respect to priming for blocking and prep purposes, I have found that the paint I am using, Sico Corrostop...
...sands extremely well. I've found putting a regular thick coat on blocked really well on one piece I was painting. Not sure how many coats would be required to match the at least 3 coats of high build primer you should use, but I'm going to experiment some more in that department.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: plum500]
#37625
10/26/07 01:13 PM
10/26/07 01:13 PM
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Anonymous
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HELP!!!!!!!!
I've got bubbles MILLIONS OF THEM!
Here's my background.
This is not my first car to roller paint.
I rolled my 1949 Dodge Truck with Rustoleum Sunrise Red and Gloss Black with wonderful results. Used Mineral Spirits to thin. White foam rollers from Home Depot.
Now I'm working on my 1943 Jeep
Army Green (Equal Parts Rustoleum Hunter Green and Leather Brown). I've done two or three coats on the hood, fenders and grille. Did it just like I did the truck. But the bubbles are horrendous. I've tried blowing them out. I've tried going back over with light, light pressure. Nothing works. They are still there when it dries. What could be going wrong. Wiped everything down with mineral spirits before I started and let it dry. Can't figure this one out. Such failure after such success is really dumbfounding. I can't think of anything different between the truck and the jeep paint jobs. Would temperature make a difference? It was a lot warmer when I was painting the truck. Probably about 70 degrees with the jeep.
HELP!!!!!!!
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37626
10/27/07 07:55 AM
10/27/07 07:55 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Two thoughts I'll toss out there for your consideration, and not saying I'm right.
1) Could the bubbles be 'fisheyes'? This is caused by silicone (usually) if the thing has had a lot of Armor-All or something used on it (maybe on the top?). That stuff will stick darn near forever and is very hard to get rid of. It will make little round eyes in the paint sort of like bubbles, but they aren't bubbles.
2) If you are getting bubbles, is your foam roller different than what you used prior? If you get bubbles right after rolling and they don't go away, maybe give the Brightside 'tip' treatment a shot. Go over it with a foam brush and whack the tops off the bubbles to help them lie flat.
Sounds like you've got some great projects there. I love old trucks and Jeeps. Hope you can get this figured out.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37627
10/27/07 11:32 AM
10/27/07 11:32 AM
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Anonymous
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It's not fisheyes, it's actual bubbles. I've seen fisheyes before. Plus my prep work would have eliminated any contaminant. 1) Sanded down to the metal. 2) Primed with Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer. 3) Wet sanded primer 4) Wiped down with mineral spirits on tack rag. So I don't think it could be something like that. Even when you blow the bubbles and they pop, the paint doesn't seem to flow together like it did when I painted the truck. It doesn't level like it ought to. It's just a bunch of popped bubbles. I've tried changing the amount of mineral spirits but it didn't change the results. The bubbles are there as soon as you roll. Before it just flowed out smooth as could be. Each coat was amazingly smooth and shiny. It's the exact same type of rollers that I used before on the truck.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37629
10/27/07 08:00 PM
10/27/07 08:00 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
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Quote:
Well, it's not fisheyes. These are definitely bubbles. Prep work should have eliminated any contaminants. 1)Sanded to bare metal 2)Primed with Rusty Metal Primer 3) Wet sanded 4) Wiped down with mineral spirits.
I've applied 3 coats to the hood, one fender and gerry can. No problems on first two. Millions of bubbles on third. Also painted the cowl and sides (first coat) at the same time. Bubbles everywhere. It was sanded down to bare metal, washed with soap and water, wiped with mineral spirits, then painted (no primer). So it's the same paint, same mineral spirits, same rollers, same roller pan. This is what baffles me. Even when I blow the bubbles out they don't flow together. They just look like flattened bubbles. Definitely a head-scratcher to me. 
It's an interesting problem. You mentioned that the first two coats went down nicely... and it was only on the third coat that it decided to go bubbles on you....
Initially I was thinking that somehow the paint combination ( you created an Army Green (Equal Parts Rustoleum Hunter Green and Leather Brown) but if there was a conflict between the two paints being blended... it in theory would have shown up earlier in the first or second coats.
Now... what I am thinking is this.... WHAT IF the bubbles are actually bubbles... ie gases trying to escape from the previous coats. IF that was the case, the answer might be that you need to allow more time between the coats to let the previous paints cure more and let their gases escape.
I think somehow the difference between this project and your other project probably rest with the blending of paints. It just might be that the brown and the green pigments fight it out a bit longer that your previous blendings on the first project. Or if you are doing your work outside... possibly the green pigments cure faster than the brown pigments ( or vice-a-versa )
I was almost thinking that it might be a problem with the initial metal primer that was wiped down with mineral spirits... but the fact that the first two coats laid down properly sort of rules that out.
What you might do as an experiment is sand out the present bubbles and just heavily rinse the sanding crap off it with JUST water and a clean cloth. Then wipe down with a lightly wetted mineral spirited CLEAN CLOTH. Let it dry for a few hours to ensure the mineral spirit has fully evaporated. Then use a tack cloth to give it a final wipe. Then just lay a mineral spirit thinned coat of your green/brown mixture. By not using any soap in your wiping and rinsing down of the sanding, it will eliminate the soap as having left any residue that buggered things up. By providing extra time for the mineral spirit wipe down to fully evaporate you will be ruling out that it left any artifacts that were still evaporating...
One odd thing about the rinse down and washing of the sanding with water that 'could' impact how the paint lays down is the very water itself that you are using to wash the car. Some folks have to cope with hard water... some folks have to cope with soft water... some folks have extra doses of chlorine in their water... while other folks have high concentrations of sodium or minerals. I don't think that applies in your case, because you were able to successfully do your other vehicle. I am assuming you did it at the same location and so it is the same water this time as previously...
Or... maybe the answer rest with some contaminents during your previous washing... ie there was still soap residue on the body from not having been thoroughly rinsed off.... OR.. maybe the cloth/sponge/whatever you used to wipe the body while rinsing held some contaminants ( previous sanding particles... or maybe the wifey/mom had previously used that cloth/sponge/whatever and washed it with Bounce fabric softener or used it to apply Pledge or furniture oil...
The oddity in this is that your first and second coats laid out properly... and it was only with the application of the third coat that it decided to go all bubbly.
Maybe the answer if the bubbles keep happening is find some of that Penetrol stuff the guys were mentioning here... and see if by adding that to your mixture is buys you some additional 'leveling out' time...
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Last edited by Marq; 10/27/07 08:06 PM.
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: Marq]
#37630
10/28/07 06:35 PM
10/28/07 06:35 PM
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Anonymous
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I just started my firt rolling coat of Gloss white just 2 mins ago..and I have a question about bubbles
I thined out the paint but right when roll on the test peice, I see tons of bubbles, i can blow them out and they go away...but is this normal?
Did I thin the paint too much? Is the paint too thick? Is this normal, like does every1 get bubbles to start with and they just level out or what?
Someone help me asap
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
[Re: Marq]
#37632
10/28/07 11:03 PM
10/28/07 11:03 PM
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Anonymous
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Marq, seriously dude, you're a f'n genius .. Thank you !!!!!!!!! I already layed a coat with just blowing the crap out of the bubbles, but tomorrow i'll prolly wet sand it really quickly and do the 2 foam roller trick Thanks again man, it's too bad you don't live in Vancouver, would of paid u to give me 15 min lesson 
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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread.
#37633
10/29/07 01:17 AM
10/29/07 01:17 AM
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Anonymous
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About a month ago I purchased Little Antropov and it needed a paint job. I had no clue or experience at all about painting a vehicle, talked to a few guys and offered to paint it for a $1000. I thought, wow, that's more than what I paid for it, I needed to find another alternative. Enter.......the internet, on how to paint your own vehicle. After stumbling upon this thread and the man that started it all (69chargeryeehaa) who I'd like to thank for keeping that extra $950.00 in my bank account, I spent days reading and researching this method, which totally freaked me out. I never thought of painting a vehicle myself, let alone with a 4" foam roller. I had to let out a laugh every once in awhile while I read each post. So, I got all pumped about it, went out and purchased all that was recommended and followed each step as best as I could and man, let me tell you, if you're looking for a good paint job and to also save your money, try this out, you won't be disappointed. I'm always getting compliments on my vehicle's paint job, and to be honest, I actually rushed it. Being my first attempt, the whole process took me a week, which I thought was fairly quick. Next time around I'll put more into it, especially the prep work. I even planned on doing a couple of more coats, but it was getting a little chilly in the garage.(not heated) , so I thought, ah, looks better than it did when I bought it, and that's all I wanted anyways. Again, thanks to 69chargeryeehaa and all the others for the valuable information on how to paint your car on a budget. Cheers! Here are some pics...............................      
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