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Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 #375853
07/15/09 06:47 AM
07/15/09 06:47 AM

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Hello, I'm new at posting in this forum and I hope can find the answers here that i seek. As I've been unable to find the answer after extensive use of google. I excuse myself in advance for any odd terms or grammar as english is not my native language

I have an Dodge Dart GT 1965 with the original 273 V8 and 904 automatic transmission.

History

Problems started with an "exploding" flex plate and leaking oilpump couple years ago. Hard to tell what the previous owner was up to. After having the transmisson overhauled I could also confirm the previous owner's statement about a newly done overhaul of the transmission as all replacement parts were brand new along with the screw threads. Oil pump bushing was replaced along with a majorty of the gaskets.
Tranmission back in place and filled with 6 liter (approx 6.3 quarts) of tranmission oil.

So far, so good. Almost, I notice that the kickdown rod/linkage is missing while I was mounting the transmission. So I put this on my to-do list and move on to check the engine and gears while standing still.

Current Problem
When going from Park to Neutral it sometimes skips directly to Drive and vice versa. Park also gets hard to engange at times. Adjusted the wires like crazy without any luck. Also, the shifts can be somewhat tricky to engage (as i not being smooth and direct). Did some short driving on the yard, having this idea in my head that it could be something with the fluids after being totally drained.
So I am scracthing my head here. Not enough oil? Missing kickdown rod shouldn't cause this, or?
The fact that the oil pump bushing was totally worn out still concerns me, as it was brand new. Perhaps the case of carelessness during overhaul?

Thing is that I can almost swear that his car used to shift normal when i bought it 2005. I cannot however remember if the kickdown rod was missing back then, I could just have simply lost it somewhere in the workshop. This has been a slow project until now, so memory is flawed

Last edited by Pilsnercruiser; 07/15/09 06:50 AM.
Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 #375854
07/15/09 07:33 AM
07/15/09 07:33 AM
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West Tennessee
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1965 is one year only cable operated trans operated by a shift lever (either column or floor shifter)First, you need the kickdown linkage hooked up and adjusted properly. You also need the shift cable adjusted properly. The most accurate way to do this (for me, anyway) is to drop the pan and actually watch the rooster comb while an assistant moves the shifter through all the gears. It will be very obvious when the adjustment is correct just by watching the relationship between the rooster comb and the neutral safety switch.


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Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: rbstroker] #375855
07/15/09 11:21 AM
07/15/09 11:21 AM
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Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Kick down is cable operated.


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: Rug_Trucker] #375856
07/15/09 01:09 PM
07/15/09 01:09 PM
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Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 #375857
07/15/09 01:39 PM
07/15/09 01:39 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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If the transmission and converter were completely dry after overhaul, 6.3 quarts isn't enough fluid. Are you using the dipstick to check the fluid level?

The difficulty getting into Park and the inconsistent gear selection might be the result of an incorrect valve body, when a pushbutton valve body is installed in a column/console shifted car those are the symptoms usually experienced. When having problems with shift cable adjustment it often helps to pull the pan and use a small mirror/flashlight to observe the position of the detent ball in the various gears.

Absence of throttle pressure linkage won't cause the problems you're having but don't drive it any distance without the linkage.


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Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: John_Kunkel] #375858
07/15/09 03:28 PM
07/15/09 03:28 PM

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Don't worry, I will not drive anywhere without a working kickdown!
Yes the tranmission was drained as I replaced all gaskets, reckon the workbench would be messy if not. I was using the dipstick to check fluid level.
How do i tell pushbutton and console shifted valve bodies apart? If I happen to have the correct valve body, what else could it possibly be?

Last edited by Pilsnercruiser; 07/15/09 04:26 PM.
Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 #375859
07/15/09 06:23 PM
07/15/09 06:23 PM
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When Park was added to the valve body they bored a hole in the casting to allow the manual valve to extend one more position past Reverse, if the VB doesn't have this hole it is a PB casting and won't allow the manual valve into the Park position (your problem getting into Park) The Park problem could also be a misadjusted park cable.

Also, the cable adapter on the PB valve body has a narrow slot ( on right below) that the retaining wire locks into, the column/console cable (on left)has a wider slot that causes lost motion when inserted into a PB valve body.

Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: John_Kunkel] #375860
07/15/09 07:04 PM
07/15/09 07:04 PM

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Thanks, your input has been most helpful so far!
I will hopefully have time to look over this tomorrow before before work.
Becoming a bit more certain that I haven't adjusted things properly. At least I hope so, this transmission has caused me enough headache as it is.

Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: John_Kunkel] #375861
07/25/09 04:27 AM
07/25/09 04:27 AM

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After geting my hands on a proper repair manual along with the information provided in this thread it was clear that I simply have the incorrect valve body installed. Fortune enough there is a massive chrysler dealer over here. For $70 I'd call it a good deal.

In a week or so I hopefully will not have any problems to get my car rolling. As for the "kickdown linkage" I created something myself with copper tubing, bicycle wire and a return spring. Similar to what Lokar sells, but at the cost of $20.

Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: Rug_Trucker] #375862
07/25/09 08:29 PM
07/25/09 08:29 PM
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Quote:

Kick down is cable operated.




wrong, the kick down is NOT cable operated on a 65 dart,


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Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 #375863
07/26/09 01:19 AM
07/26/09 01:19 AM
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Quote:

As for the "kickdown linkage" I created something myself with copper tubing, bicycle wire and a return spring. Similar to what Lokar sells, but at the cost of $20.


Post a pic sometime


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Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: Supercuda] #375864
07/26/09 11:24 AM
07/26/09 11:24 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Kick down is cable operated.




wrong, the kick down is NOT cable operated on a 65 dart,




Is this a 904? 727 was cable.


"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: Rug_Trucker] #375865
07/26/09 05:22 PM
07/26/09 05:22 PM
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only 904's were available in a 65 dart & whether floor or col shift(which both used cables)the KD itself was a rod setup


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Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: Rug_Trucker] #375866
08/01/09 03:34 PM
08/01/09 03:34 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Kick down is cable operated.




wrong, the kick down is NOT cable operated on a 65 dart,




Is this a 904? 727 was cable.




Wrong again.

How many times can one guy be wrong in one thread?

No 727's in a 65 Dart and No cable kickdowns on any 727's in 65, or any other year. So that's two in one post.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: Supercuda] #375867
08/01/09 04:45 PM
08/01/09 04:45 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Kick down is cable operated.




wrong, the kick down is NOT cable operated on a 65 dart,




Is this a 904? 727 was cable.




Wrong again.

How many times can one guy be wrong in one thread?

No 727's in a 65 Dart and No cable kickdowns on any 727's in 65, or any other year. So that's two in one post.




Who pissed in your Cheerios? I just sold a 65 727 to a member here. There was 2 cables coming out or attached to that tranny. Sorry I didn't have a pic for you.

Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: Rug_Trucker] #375868
08/01/09 04:51 PM
08/01/09 04:51 PM
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One is the shifter,the other is for park. No cable kickdown from the factory on the early stuff.

Re: Shifting problems, Dodge Dart GT 1965 [Re: Rug_Trucker] #375869
08/02/09 10:41 AM
08/02/09 10:41 AM
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Don't need a pic, I know exactly what they look like AND how they work.

Imagine this, some unsuspecting person buys your trans, hooks up the aft cable as a "kickdown". Takes off for a test drive and floors it. Well instead of kicking down it engages the parking pawl inside the trans with it in gear and at full throttle.

You gonna refund his money when his trans pukes it's guts? Be quite humorous to be the judge sitting in on this small claims case.

Ignorance is a beautiful thing, it provides for hours of entertainment on Youtube.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.






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