383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
#365477
07/03/09 07:14 PM
07/03/09 07:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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I've been disassembling my 71' roadrunner to get it ready for restoration. Right now I'm trying to figure out what a good cam would be for my motor. The car is completely stock. My intention is to have a good street machine that can dip into 12.5 to 13 et at the track. I've been told the MP484 lift grind would be good but the MP474 lift would be better because I intend on keeping the factory AC. Is anyone using these cams or have suggestions for something better.
The plan so far is to keep the motor factory looking but replace the internals to create a sleeper. I'm going to port and polish the 346 heads, put on an edelbrock performer intake, and am debating on putting on a T-quad or keeping the 750 competition carb already on it (previous owner). I took off the nameplate of the carb in order to make it look like a factory AVS carb. With the exhaust, I'm going to open up the factory hi-po manifolds and probably run a 3in. exhaust to help compensate for the manifolds.
The rear end has a 3.23 sure grip posi and the car is a factory 4 speed. Another question I have is if a 69' roadrunner 4 speed better than a 71' 4 speed. The previous owner gave me the 69' 4 speed as part of the deal.
If anyone has suggestions as far as the cam, carb, intake, or anything else I'd really appreciate it.
PS I don't want to build a stroker motor
Last edited by DarkRunner; 07/04/09 12:12 AM.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365478
07/03/09 07:23 PM
07/03/09 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565 IA
landon1
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i've heard of a few people running the 484 cam in 383s, but none with AC...if you're sticking with MP parts, the MP online catalog has a chart showing which items to choose to get your car into a time frame - idk how accurate it is, though. maybe look into a different, more modern cam grind - i think people keeping manifolds get a custom cam to make the most of it. being a 4 speed you won't have to worry about a converter (wish i was in that boat ), maybe look into a 3.55 rear. i'm sure there's someone that's done what you plan on doing that will chime in
'71 Satellite Sebring 440
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Re: 383 cam suggestions
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365479
07/03/09 08:32 PM
07/03/09 08:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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The 4120235 484 cam is pretty big to be tossing in a 383 with A/C and 3.23 gears IMO..??
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: 383 cam suggestions
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#365480
07/03/09 08:52 PM
07/03/09 08:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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I wouldn't think so because its only two or three steps up from the factory cam that's a .450 lift. I'm sure the lobe sep. on the MP 484 is a little more radical than the factory 115. That's what I'm trying to figure out here though because I have no experience with a 4 speed. Always worked with automatics and torque converters. I figured with the 4 speed putting all the power to the rear, the 3.23 sure grip would hold up fine. I spoke to a guy with a 71' charger and he said the big problem with this body style is traction in the back. So if I bumped up the gear to a 3.55, would it be that big of a gain? That should be the same as swapping a 3.42 to a 3.73 in my malibu. There just isn't too much of a difference is there?
And I haven't a clue either how the AC plays that much of a factor in the performance, but supposedly it does. Another question I'm throwing out here is is there a way to convert that massive factory AC pump from R12 to R134 or am I going to have to replace the entire system including the pump?
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365481
07/03/09 08:59 PM
07/03/09 08:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565 IA
landon1
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3.23 to 3.55 isn't a big jump, just something i was throwing out there if you wanted some more acceleration and to help out with that cam - maybe go to 3.73 (?) if you wanted to step up acceleration even more. the a/c compressor will create more drag - maybe that's why you were advised to stray from the 484. the 484 seems like a pretty radical cam for a 383...kind of like throwing a 509 in a mild, factory spec 440...not going to perform that well, unless you rebuild and bump up the compression a bit. PS. '71-2 Plymouth = best looking
'71 Satellite Sebring 440
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Re: 383 cam suggestions
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365483
07/03/09 11:17 PM
07/03/09 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565 IA
landon1
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that's a bit higher than stock, so maybe you'll be okay with a 484 cam. i'm going to use the Comp XE 268 in the 440 for my '71 (also manual brakes, PS). it's a .477/.480 lift cam good to 5800 RPMs. i would think that cam, or maybe one step above it would work pretty well in a 383 4 speed ( i have an auto, so without changing converters, i'm just about limited to the 268). i was really hoping someone with a 383 would chime in....
'71 Satellite Sebring 440
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Re: 383 cam suggestions
[Re: landon1]
#365484
07/03/09 11:52 PM
07/03/09 11:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,751 A collage of whims
topside
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Been there, done that. Too much duration & overlap, not enough lift. Put one in a .030 over balanced/printed 383 RR, 3.23s & stock converter. Sounded wicked, but was soft on the bottom and not well-mannered even at 4* advanced. Lots of fun over 3000RPM or so. Terrible gas mileage. I've since been very happy with Engle's stuff, which takes advantage of the Chrysler lifter size. Especially with AC, I'd go somewhere around their 214/224 @ .050, .470/.504 lift split-pattern hydraulic. Had that spec cam in a 406" Duster with AC; good vauum, throttle response & manners, sounds healthy, 17MPG at 70, happy with a 3.21 gear and stock converter. The MP 284/484 is old tech; still popular, but better stuff is available.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions
[Re: topside]
#365485
07/04/09 12:08 AM
07/04/09 12:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
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CurYellowBird
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I understand that the MP grinds are old tech but its proven technology that works. My dad is running what I think is the comp cam XE268, it is a .540 lift cam with 280 duration in his 67' Dart GTS that has a built 440.
Topside, were you talking about the 484 grind not having enough lift and too much duration and overlap?
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions
[Re: 383man]
#365489
07/04/09 03:12 AM
07/04/09 03:12 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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Alright after doing a lot of research I've decided that the .484 MP cam is really the biggest that should be put in a 383. I'm thinking the .474 grind MP cam is a good choice with my 4 speed and 3.23 gearing. It should also work with my factory AC, even if I have to swap out the factory pump for an R134 pump. I will also shave the heads and port'em to get better flow and CR. IMO, from what I've been reading, my 346 open chamber heads can perform just as good as a closed chamber head once they're built right.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#365491
07/04/09 09:41 AM
07/04/09 09:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
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I've built 2 383s.. 9.8:1, stock heads and vavle gear, one dual plane one single, both with 750 3310 Holleys. I used the XE268 in them. Thye idle at 700rpm, pull from idle to 6K, and have no issues. I dont think any MP cam is the way to go for this one. Get something design in this millenium and that is made without the usual production issues. If you do run an MP, then make sure they degree it because it's going to be off.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365492
07/04/09 12:14 PM
07/04/09 12:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
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pro stock
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From what I understand, when running factory exhaust manifolds, you’re better off with a 112-to-114 centerline. Also, as already mentioned in this thread, go with a custom cam for your application. In my 383, I’m going with a Mr. SixPack custom grind from Engle Racing Cams which is designed by Bob Karakashian. The cost is a bit more than an off the shelf cam but worth it. $235.00 to your doorstep and that dose not include lifters. But that cam has bone stock 440-6s running in the high 11s on factory polyglass tires. You might be able to get the ETs you’re after with you're 383. You can give Mr. Karakashian a call and he’ll talk it over with you. Mr.6Pack Racing Engines - link
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CompSyn]
#365493
07/04/09 08:38 PM
07/04/09 08:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,355 maine
LO23
pro stock
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pro stock
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maine
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i ran a P.A.W. cam in my 85 short bed pick up back in the early nineties,went pretty good for the price.had a rumpity idle and good power.the 383(66) went 13.1's with a 650 holley and a od 4sp and 3:55's,tube headers. Performance Hyd Camshaft Duration @ 0.050 Lift: Int. 224° /Exh. 234° Advertised Duration: Int. 290° /Exh. 300° Gross Valve Lift: .465"/.488" Deg. Lobe Center: 112 LC Recommended Lifter Part#: PAW- 2011 Qty. 16 NOTE: 1958-67 use PAW-812 Lifters Recommended Valve Spring Part#: PAW-VS320 Qty.16 " Item# PAW-22988
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365494
07/04/09 10:37 PM
07/04/09 10:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439 So Cal
Sinitro
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There are (2) 284 Mopar hyd cams 1 bolt for the big block. The original P4120235 and later P50078975, the later one has more overlap (114 degrees vs. 108) and is better for the street. The original needs at least a 3.54 rear end. Just my $0.025..
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#365496
07/05/09 01:08 AM
07/05/09 01:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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Well from doing all this research, the MP 280 grind seems to be the best all around cam for driveability with the four speed and AC while still putting out plenty of torque, plus its a good hemi grind as well. Been reading up a lot of specs out of my dad's Mopar Performance Shelby's Secrets book that was published in the mid to late 80's. It looks like the mopar bible lol.
With the exhaust, I plan on opening up the factory hi-po manifolds and running a 3 inch flowmaster exhaust to help those manifolds out. The factory 2 1/4 exhaust pipes and mufflers are still on the car and are in good condition with minimal surface rust, but I have a feeling they won't allow as much flow as a 3 inch flowmaster exhaust (duh).
One investment I'm looking at is 440source's new stealth heads. I can easily paint them and they'll resemble the factory heads and help lighten up the front end to compensate for the heavy AC pump. Plus they're a better design than the 346 heads I have. If budget doesn't allow that, then I'll rebuild the 346 heads to a point where they'll perform to the best a factory head can.
For intakes, i'm kinda stuck. I'm trying to choose between eddy's performer intake, RPM performer, or the M1 dual plane intake. Remember that I'm trying to keep the motor and car looking stock while replacing all internals that no one can see, and making a lot of torque low while have hp to closely match the torque. So I was thinking the performer closely resembles the factory intake, but the RPM performer seems to be putting out higher numbers. I dont have a clue on the performance of the M1 dual plane intake. Anyone have input on these intakes?
With the carb, I'm going to be using a Carter Competition 750 cfm carb. I removed its nameplate and it resembles the factory mopar AFB carb. After a good rebuild and a little jet work and it should work great.
Finally, I'm really considering rebuilding the rear end with a 3.55 gear since I do plan on using a somewhat tall tire and it will give better response etc etc.
Last edited by DarkRunner; 07/05/09 01:53 AM.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365497
07/05/09 02:30 AM
07/05/09 02:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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Only real problem with what you are wanting to do is that you are putting WAY too much stock in MP crap. This site and others has so much more and better info, I can't figure out why you are still looking at their stuff for anything other than a laugh. Seriously, several guys have posted exact part numbers and experiences- that is worth far more than MP telling you what THEY think will work for YOU, and conveinently they make those very things... I also don't think the 3" exhaust will be worth the money spent with manifolds. Extude honing would help but for the $$$$$ you could just run some NICE headers, see better gains overall(except nonstock looks) and be done with it.
I want my fair share
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#365498
07/05/09 02:49 AM
07/05/09 02:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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Because I feel that the 280 grind cam is really respectable. I've spoken to two different guys who have built every type of mopar motor you can imagine way back in the 60's till now. There is nothing wrong with a 30+ year old cam design. If it works it works. I'm sure comp cams and lunati voodoo cams are great, but the main thing I've heard with comp is that they're having trouble with flattening cam lobes and lunati just changed hands with a different company. At least with the mopar brands its a 3 decade proven technology. Now I do plan on talking with Hughes as well. I haven't spoken with anyone from mopar performance. I'm not here to dog anyone using these brand cams, this is just my opinion. The idea here is a simple street car that I'm sure can easily pull a mid 13 at the strip. Its not a race car and I shouldn't have to complicate the choosing of a cam because I will probably not notice it on the street. The only time you notice any great changes is if your drag racing, so why get down to the nitty gritty with different name brand cams? Comp cams basically took the MP designs and made slight changes and slapped on the name "Mopar Purple Plus". Thats just my 2 cents
Last edited by DarkRunner; 07/05/09 02:55 AM.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#365500
07/05/09 03:13 AM
07/05/09 03:13 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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Thanks for the input cuda.
The problem is nowadays there are just so many cams to go with that it just seems easier to go back to basics rather than complicate the decision with advanced technology. My thinking was that the MP284 might be a little too radical to deal with AC and a 4 speed and could take away from driveability. Thats why decided to go with the MP280. And I figured that cam along with those new 440source stealth heads would be a pretty nice set up in a 383 putting out 9.5:1 CR. My roadrunner had all the luxury options of a GTX while having all the performance options the Roadrunner line had to offer. So I'm not going to replace all the motor parts because it's an all numbers matching origional car. That is why I'm trying to keep this relatively simple.
I'm open for opinions, just don't want to be bashed on cause I have a different opinion than everyone else.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365501
07/05/09 03:24 AM
07/05/09 03:24 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 403 NE Ohio
71 FJ6 Charger
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
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Fine its respectable but still 30 yrs old. A newer cam may get you those numbers but not an older one with that set up you have. Dont waste ur time on the manifolds with 3 inch they wont flow enough to take advantage of the size in the first place. And just because it says mopar performance means nothing nowadays.
'71 383HP FJ6 Charger SE
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: 71 FJ6 Charger]
#365502
07/05/09 03:37 AM
07/05/09 03:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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The name means nothing to me, just the proven design that was used. What is wrong with using the hi-po manifolds? I know they're not as good as a header but they must flow pretty good because chrysler used them on all their high perf. motors.
Random question, how old are you guys?
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365503
07/05/09 03:49 AM
07/05/09 03:49 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
I'm open for opinions, just don't want to be bashed on cause I have a different opinion than everyone else.
The fact that a bunch of guys with probably a collective 100+ years of experience are telling you to go in a different direction ought to give you pause for thought.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: 64Post]
#365504
07/05/09 04:01 AM
07/05/09 04:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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So does anyone use the MP cam now? And how many of you guys actually used one of these cams in the past, minus those who provided a direct experience (Thanks again). I want opinions from people who have actually used the MP cam, not people who have never used it telling me that its a 30 year old design. Another thing is that not every guy who owns a mopar built their motor perfectly. It's easy for someone to put in the wrong pistons, intake, carb, etc. and blame it on the camshaft.
And if the MP products are so bad, then why are they still manufacturing and selling them? There must be consumers out there who think their products are worth it.
Somebody please tell me a simple issue of why the MP cams are so bad. Is it too much overlap, lift, duration, or was the mopar world tired of MP cams and decided to just go and try other things?
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: 64Post]
#365506
07/05/09 04:37 AM
07/05/09 04:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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If you read everything else I posted its not a stock rebuilt 383. The only thing thats gonna be stock is the block itself and the hi-po manifolds, thats it.
I already listed everything that won't be stock such as the stealth aluminum closed chamber heads, the performer rpm or M1 dual plane intake, the carter comp carb, raising the CR to 9.5:1, converting to a 3.55 gear. I dont know how in the world all of this is a stock rebuild for a 383. The only draw back to the whole set up is keeping the AC pump. Other than that I have manual brakes so vacuum doesn't mean a thing to me and a 4 speed which means no torque converter issues either.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365508
07/05/09 10:00 AM
07/05/09 10:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477 Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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I Live Here
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Quote:
So does anyone use the MP cam now? And how many of you guys actually used one of these cams in the past, minus those who provided a direct experience (Thanks again). I want opinions from people who have actually used the MP cam, not people who have never used it telling me that its a 30 year old design. Another thing is that not every guy who owns a mopar built their motor perfectly. It's easy for someone to put in the wrong pistons, intake, carb, etc. and blame it on the camshaft.
And if the MP products are so bad, then why are they still manufacturing and selling them? There must be consumers out there who think their products are worth it.
Somebody please tell me a simple issue of why the MP cams are so bad. Is it too much overlap, lift, duration, or was the mopar world tired of MP cams and decided to just go and try other things?
I'm willing to bet I'm one of the guys who has ran the MoPar Performance cams the MOST on these forums... I've ran maybe 25 to 30 of them over the years in different cars. Most were the 4120235 484 grind in big blocks, mainly 440s. I like the 484 cam. I've tried a few Comp Cams over they years, I like them too. The ONLY brand camshaft I have ever seen troubles with to be honest was the Sig erson cams in 440. My buddy ran them, he loved the performance but he had many go flat, the front of two cams broke at the dowel pin, it was weird. We stopped using them. I've never had any troubles with MP cams and I've ran many.
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CompSyn]
#365509
07/05/09 11:06 AM
07/05/09 11:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 501 Easton, PA
68DART360
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 501
Easton, PA
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Quote:
From what I understand, when running factory exhaust manifolds, you’re better off with a 112-to-114 centerline.
Also, as already mentioned in this thread, go with a custom cam for your application.
In my 383, I’m going with a Mr. SixPack custom grind from Engle Racing Cams which is designed by Bob Karakashian. The cost is a bit more than an off the shelf cam but worth it. $235.00 to your doorstep and that dose not include lifters.
But that cam has bone stock 440-6s running in the high 11s on factory polyglass tires. You might be able to get the ETs you’re after with you're 383.
You can give Mr. Karakashian a call and he’ll talk it over with you.
Mr.6Pack Racing Engines - link
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#365513
07/05/09 02:15 PM
07/05/09 02:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,819
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Quote:
Quote:
Random question, how old are you guys?
I missed this!
I'm an "old enough to know better, young enough to do it again and again, and again" ..... kinda guy!
I can REALLY relate to that!
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#365514
07/05/09 02:52 PM
07/05/09 02:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
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San Antonio, TX
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Does the LSA play that big of a factor when using either headers or manifolds? The LSA on that 280 grind is 110* but I know that new 284 MP cam has 114 LSA along with the previous one that had 108* or so LSA.
That sucks that performer RPM intake doesn't clear cause I do plan on using the factory air cleaner. Has anyone used that M1 dual plane intake before? It looks kinda like the stock intake so I'm curious if the runners are larger and better air flow?
PS I'm the young gun
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365517
07/05/09 04:06 PM
07/05/09 04:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477 Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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I Live Here
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Canada
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I built a few Chevies when I was young... but even while I built them I was always looking at the MoPars. I guess you can't supress what you like! From my silly years... I musta built and rebuilt 1969 Chevelles so many times I could do it in my sleep...
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#365518
07/05/09 04:13 PM
07/05/09 04:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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my 71' roadrunner has always been my dream mopar to own since I realized there was no way I was getting a superbird lol. I've got the car I want and I'm only 18 so it works out.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365521
07/05/09 05:04 PM
07/05/09 05:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565 IA
landon1
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565
IA
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lol...they're the most reliable vehicles i've had (other than the plymouth - old, but you just can't kill it). i did have 2 GMs - a buick and a pontiac, several friends drive GMs - i really don't like em
'71 Satellite Sebring 440
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365522
07/05/09 06:00 PM
07/05/09 06:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,942 WI
Dcuda69
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,942
WI
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Quote:
So does anyone use the MP cam now? And how many of you guys actually used one of these cams in the past, minus those who provided a direct experience (Thanks again). I want opinions from people who have actually used the MP cam, not people who have never used it telling me that its a 30 year old design. Another thing is that not every guy who owns a mopar built their motor perfectly. It's easy for someone to put in the wrong pistons, intake, carb, etc. and blame it on the camshaft.
And if the MP products are so bad, then why are they still manufacturing and selling them? There must be consumers out there who think their products are worth it.
Somebody please tell me a simple issue of why the MP cams are so bad. Is it too much overlap, lift, duration, or was the mopar world tired of MP cams and decided to just go and try other things?
I had the 484(108lsa) in a low squeeze 383,4spd,3:23 A-body. Idle sounded wicked,but drivability sucked! Driving thru a parking lot with long gears and a big cam is a real treat. It's not so much that MP cams suck(though there are QC issues and yes I know plenty of guys that "lost" lobes)just there are MUCH better designs out there now!Why not take advantage of 30 yrs of design improvements?I've got a solid roller now that idles better and pulls harder than that old MP design!Do the research...the cam companies have!
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: Dcuda69]
#365523
07/05/09 06:39 PM
07/05/09 06:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,948 British Columbia
chrisf
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,948
British Columbia
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i am about to swap motors in my shortbox. it currently has a 383 that is a mis-match of parts. 9-1 stealth heads, rpm intake, 750 vac, 17/8" headers 3.21 rear,stock converter it has a summit (around 484 cam) this thing is a dog until about 3g then it turns on. new engine is a 10-1 383, 60302 voodoo cam, same heads intake and gears with a slightly looser converter. i would say this engine should be a huge difference over the old combo. cam is just too big to match all the other mods. poorly chosen parts and i knew it. MP cams are old school. go modern.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: chrisf]
#365524
07/05/09 09:01 PM
07/05/09 09:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Your 18, and taking a rather inflexible position here... I've been doing this for 22 years, and havent used an MP cam in 8 years. You quote a book printed in the 80s, and partially financed by MP. Try bringing your build into the internet age and use a cam that takes advantage of things those books' authors never fully researched. You've gotten a bunch if good info here. It's your choice to use it or not. I can tell you, 98% of cam failures are a result of builder or first start errors. Not a brand name. Read something written in the last 4 years and good luck to you. It's cool that you're a young gun who's goig against the grain of your peers. Which is why I find it funny you choose to rely on yourself and not the guys that did it before.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: moper]
#365525
07/05/09 09:24 PM
07/05/09 09:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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I've been going off information from both books and the internet. The research I've been putting into various cam types has been going on since I got the car last feb-march. I'm always told there's two sides to every story. On one side there is guys standing by the new cams being produced while on the other side are the old crusty mopar guys that stand by the MP cams.
The one common ground I've gotten out of this topic and from both sides of the arguement is that the .509 lift grind from both MP and I believe Comp is a really good cam for this set up. I'm just worried that it could be too much and take away from the drivability of the car.
It's hard to be flexible in a way cause this is a one shot deal. It sucks to have to go back and tear the whole engine apart to replace a cam. I've already figured that out on my malibu when I used an Iskey cam that had waaaay too much duration. So I stepped it down to a summit .442/.460 lift cam that works great as a daily driver.
Last edited by DarkRunner; 07/05/09 09:28 PM.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365527
07/05/09 10:12 PM
07/05/09 10:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Dark, You're agonizing over this I can tell. One aspect not discussed much on this thread yet is the placement of the powerband. Duration and overlap determine that. In a 4 speed STREET car, especially with 3.23s, if you go with higher duration cams (say over 272 or 280) you will find your self slipping the clutch a lot to get the car moving. During spirited launches thats OK, cuz you'll let the clutch out faster and with more throttle. BUT (big BUT here), you don't always drive a street car that way. We're talking about when the powerband STARTS. In my 440/Lunati 60303 (which is a 268/272 duration), installed at 106-107 degrees, the powerband comes on at 2000, anything less than that (except very light throttle) will bog. I cam live with that. A .509 cam (which is what, 292 degrees?) won't have a powerband below 2500, maybe even 2800! On the street that gets old. Again, your 3.23's come into play too. If you had 3.91's well that changes things. Modern Cam grinds (hearing that a lot aren't ya?)are able to produce good lift WITH LESS DURATION, which means they make good power, at a lower RPM. That improves driveability greatly--STREET car. Now nothing comes without a price, and camshafts are one of life's big compromises, a smaller duration cams powerband will fall off sooner, but I guarrantee you will spend a LOT more time enjoying the power at 2000-2500 than you will at 6500. Don't get me wrong, the 383 winds up great, but again street car. The old school cams only method of getting high valve lift was to go to high duration, today you have other options. My 60303 is .494/.513 @ 268.272. If you look at the lifts in the old MP offerings at those durations you will seen numbers in the .460's--big difference. And we haven't even touched on asymetrical lobes and dual pattern grinds!
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#365529
07/05/09 10:20 PM
07/05/09 10:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
And we haven't even touched on asymetrical lobes and dual pattern grinds!
I think the lack of ZINC should be mentioned too!!!!!
Think he's ready for the roller cam consideration???
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#365530
07/05/09 10:33 PM
07/05/09 10:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,942 WI
Dcuda69
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,942
WI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And we haven't even touched on asymetrical lobes and dual pattern grinds!
I think the lack of ZINC should be mentioned too!!!!!
Think he's ready for the roller cam consideration???
NO!!
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#365531
07/05/09 10:44 PM
07/05/09 10:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,881 Pittsburgh,PA
RTSrunner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,881
Pittsburgh,PA
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I've used the 484 cam in a '69 440 GTX that was otherwise rebuilt to stock specs.It had AC,was an automatic with a bit of added stall to the converter,HP exh.manifolds,stock intake and AVS carb and was ran with both 3.23 and 4.10 gears.It works ok with the AC,although it idles a bit rough.The car has ran 13.98 street tires and through the mufflers.I think a 3.55 or 3.91 gear would have been better.I built a 383 for my '69 runner back in the day using an MP .474 lift cam,actually back then it was a .471/.474 lift cam!The 383 had cast low CR pistons,ported and shaved 906 heads,big tube headers and a six pack intake/carbs.It was a 4-speed and had a Dana 60 with 4.56 gears.This car was fun!It would require a shift to second gear before you were through an intersection when leaving a light under full throttle.The six-pack would let it rev to 7000+ rpm if you didn't shift asap,and would rev in high gear too on the banzai run!When I sold the car.they swapped in 3.54 gears and it ran well with that too,though I did not drive it personally.The .474 cam may be an option for you.I owned my roadrunner when I was 18,I'm 43 now, and it's still my favorite of all the cars I have owned,and there have been many!Have fun with your 'runner! RT
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: RTSrunner]
#365532
07/05/09 11:17 PM
07/05/09 11:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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FWIW, Bob Karakashian offered up his 69 ½ A-12 Super Bee to Chrysler Engineers back in the day to test the new at that time Direct Connection camshafts, known today as MP Purple Shaft cams. Bob got hooked up on that deal through his good friend Tom Hoover (AKA Father of the Hemi). And Bob’s actually pictured in one of the early Direct Connection catalogs. This is all there in Bob’s bio, you can read up on it at the website I provided above.
Today Bob uses his custom grind because it’s allowed in the class he races in, Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags, and because it works very well. When I spoke with Bob on the phone, he told me he’s helped people swap out their MP 284 and 509 cams for his cam which resulted in crisper performance.
Sorry but I too fell into the mantra as a young man with respect to everybody I knew was using a MP cam and thought that if Chrysler Engineers designed them and they're still around after all these years, then they must be awesome cams. I ran a MP 484 cam in a 440 and was never really fully satisfied with its performance.
Seriously, call Bob. He’s a nice guy and loves to talk Mopars. He’s really not in the cam business per say, but if someone requests one of his cam grinds, has glad to oblige.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365533
07/06/09 12:26 AM
07/06/09 12:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439 So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
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Quote:
If you read everything else I posted its not a stock rebuilt 383. The only thing thats gonna be stock is the block itself and the hi-po manifolds, thats it.
I already listed everything that won't be stock such as the stealth aluminum closed chamber heads, the performer rpm or M1 dual plane intake, the carter comp carb, raising the CR to 9.5:1, converting to a 3.55 gear. I dont know how in the world all of this is a stock rebuild for a 383. The only draw back to the whole set up is keeping the AC pump. Other than that I have manual brakes so vacuum doesn't mean a thing to me and a 4 speed which means no torque converter issues either.
The original 284 cam (2035) has low vacuum so if no power brakes you should be fine. However your mentioned Carter 750 carburator, I would recommend a Holley as the Carters/Edelbrock don't like low vacuum and are difficult to tame the idle. Has to do with their metering rods and pistons design.. Besides a Holley is just simpler and EZ to tune..
Just my $0.025..
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: Sinitro]
#365534
07/06/09 12:29 AM
07/06/09 12:29 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477 Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
If you read everything else I posted its not a stock rebuilt 383. The only thing thats gonna be stock is the block itself and the hi-po manifolds, thats it.
I already listed everything that won't be stock such as the stealth aluminum closed chamber heads, the performer rpm or M1 dual plane intake, the carter comp carb, raising the CR to 9.5:1, converting to a 3.55 gear. I dont know how in the world all of this is a stock rebuild for a 383. The only draw back to the whole set up is keeping the AC pump. Other than that I have manual brakes so vacuum doesn't mean a thing to me and a 4 speed which means no torque converter issues either.
The original 284 cam (2035) has low vacuum so if no power brakes you should be fine. However your mentioned Carter 750 carburator, I would recommend a Holley as the Carters/Edelbrock don't like low vacuum and are difficult to tame the idle. Has to do with their metering rods and pistons design.. Besides a Holley is just simpler and EZ to tune..
Just my $0.025..
The original 284 duration 484 MP cam was part# 4120235, it had vacuum depending on the application. My Demon was a 484 cam, it had a tunnel ram and a small pot power brake reservoir, I had no problems whatsoever. TONS of vacuum for the brakes....
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CompSyn]
#365535
07/06/09 12:36 AM
07/06/09 12:36 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861 Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
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Quote:
From what I understand, when running factory exhaust manifolds, you’re better off with a 112-to-114 centerline.
Also, as already mentioned in this thread, go with a custom cam for your application.
In my 383, I’m going with a Mr. SixPack custom grind from Engle Racing Cams which is designed by Bob Karakashian. The cost is a bit more than an off the shelf cam but worth it. $235.00 to your doorstep and that dose not include lifters.
But that cam has bone stock 440-6s running in the high 11s on factory polyglass tires. You might be able to get the ETs you’re after with you're 383.
You can give Mr. Karakashian a call and he’ll talk it over with you.
Mr.6Pack Racing Engines - link
Been running Bob's Mr. Sixpack cam for 3years now... I pulled an MP .484 out of my 9.6:1 383... I run 3.23's (currently) and manifolds, FWIW, I wouldn't run that MP cam in anything less then a 440 in a B-body too much weight
Very happy with the Engle/Bob K piece
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: R70RUNNER]
#365536
07/06/09 01:08 AM
07/06/09 01:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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Concerning vacuum, my car had manual all drum brakes from the factory (luckily was given power steering) but I do plan on converting to manual disc brakes for reliabile stopping. Quote:
...FWIW, I wouldn't run that MP cam in anything less then a 440 in a B-body too much weight
I'm confused, what are you saying? Are you saying its not worth it to run a 383 in a b body or are you saying that cam is too much for a 383? Please clarify cause I got lost with that.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365537
07/06/09 01:15 AM
07/06/09 01:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861 Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
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You need a 440+ CI to make that .484 cam a viable choice IMHO... 383's have short strokes (even shorter then some small block chevys ) So they don't make much power till they get up closer to 3K rpm anyway, now add in a cam that is not known for great low end power in that same 383 and you can see where the weight of a b-body is NOT going to help things. 383's are fine in b-bodies, but understand what you're working with. it's a big block that was born with a lack of stroke and is super easy to over-cam
Last edited by R70RUNNER; 07/06/09 01:17 AM.
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: R70RUNNER]
#365538
07/06/09 01:24 AM
07/06/09 01:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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That is why I opted to go with the 280 instead of the 284 if I get a cam from MP.
I'm looking at other cams though because the main thing I'm seeing with the 280 grind is that its powerband is from 2000-5900 rpm for "mild compression applications". Now if I raised the compression by going with a flat top piston and some mill work on the heads, would the power curve kick in at a lower rpm than 2000? I also spoke with another guy that told me the CR of the 383 out of the factory was 10.25:1. Anyone agree with this statement?
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365539
07/06/09 01:24 AM
07/06/09 01:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
It sucks to have to go back and tear the whole engine apart to replace a cam. I've already figured that out on my malibu when I used an Iskey cam that had waaaay too much duration.
Did you have a resource such as Moparts for that deal? Did you wave off any veteran Chevy guys to do "the young gun" thing?
We aren't here to argue you, just to help you. Most of us have been there and done that. I had the 484 cam in a 71 Cuda. It was at the very edge of being OK in that car with a 440. You have a heavier car and less cubes. But wy bother to tell you anything, you just want to joust with us so...
Go ahead with what you want. You knew what you wanted before you came on here. You don't need us. You have some old dusty books. You want to prove those that have been there and done that wrong, go ahead and give it a shot. It is your money. Carry on...
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365540
07/06/09 01:32 AM
07/06/09 01:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861 Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
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Quote:
That is why I opted to go with the 280 instead of the 284 if I get a cam from MP.
I'm looking at other cams though because the main thing I'm seeing with the 280 grind is that its powerband is from 2000-5900 rpm for "mild compression applications". Now if I raised the compression by going with a flat top piston and some mill work on the heads, would the power curve kick in at a lower rpm than 2000? I also spoke with another guy that told me the CR of the 383 out of the factory was 10.25:1. Anyone agree with this statement?
Not even close! My virgin numbers 383"HP" '70 block was a mile in the hole! I bet I had MAYBE...MAYBE 9:1
I really like the Lunati Voodoo series(others here do too.) I have one in a stoker 451 and just order one for a blown street 413 build
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#365542
07/06/09 01:55 AM
07/06/09 01:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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First, I didn't know what cam I wanted before I came to this site. I'm not jousting or whatever you may think I'm doing here. I'm trying to learn all aspects of a cam and how the motor will behave when certain things are changed such as heads, CR, etc.
Second, not every person on this site is the dubbed "The Master of Mopar" or the brightest bulb in the box. Yeah I'm a young gun, and I'm learning.
Now I'm taking down all the cams and specs and coming up with different set ups with my RR. Those "old" dusty books hold many a secrets from the racing days when Mopar, Chevy, and Ford were duking it out on the track. ]
This IS what I plan on going with as far as parts, WITHOUT the decision of a cam:
-3.55 rear gear -Stealth aluminum heads -M1 dual plane intake (Eddy RPM performer wont clear my factory hood) -flat top pistons -factory 4 speed -9.5:1 to 10:1 CR -Carter Comp Carb or another possible variant that retains the factory look of a mopar carb
Hopefully this will clear up any confusion with previous posts. Basically, I don't need the fastest car on the block. Roadrunner's are pedigree cars that don't need to hall a** anymore to prove themselves. I just want something that drives great and once in a while spank the ocassional ricer that has an ego.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365545
07/06/09 02:11 AM
07/06/09 02:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716 Baltimore/Denver
64Post
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,716
Baltimore/Denver
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Quote:
First, I didn't know what cam I wanted before I came to this site. I'm not jousting or whatever you may think I'm doing here. I'm trying to learn all aspects of a cam and how the motor will behave when certain things are changed such as heads, CR, etc.
Second, not every person on this site is the dubbed "The Master of Mopar" or the brightest bulb in the box. Yeah I'm a young gun, and I'm learning.
Now I'm taking down all the cams and specs and coming up with different set ups with my RR. Those "old" dusty books hold many a secrets from the racing days when Mopar, Chevy, and Ford were duking it out on the track. ]
This IS what I plan on going with as far as parts, WITHOUT the decision of a cam:
-3.55 rear gear -Stealth aluminum heads -M1 dual plane intake (Eddy RPM performer wont clear my factory hood) -flat top pistons -factory 4 speed -9.5:1 to 10:1 CR -Carter Comp Carb or another possible variant that retains the factory look of a mopar carb
Hopefully this will clear up any confusion with previous posts. Basically, I don't need the fastest car on the block. Roadrunner's are pedigree cars that don't need to hall a** anymore to prove themselves. I just want something that drives great and once in a while spank the ocassional ricer that has an ego.
Comp Cams has a program called Camquest that you can download and change parameters like headflow, gearing, etc. They'd ask you all the same questions found in Camquest if you were to call their techs on the phone. Try playing with that for a while. Obviously, what it can't show you are drivability issues or vacuum readings.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365546
07/06/09 02:15 AM
07/06/09 02:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861 Riverside, Ca
R70RUNNER
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,861
Riverside, Ca
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Quote:
Quote:
Just don't tell us that it is tried and true and must be beaten to be dethroned as king- because it has been already.
I didn't say that though on any post... I just said it must be a decent cam if it is still on the market and mopar guys are still using them. No need for you to stir up an arguement.
And that is exactly what MP want's you, and others to think... it doesn't cost them a dime to sell the same grinds they have for years! Let's be honest... some feel a real loyalty to MP! Too bad they have not maintained the same loyalty to US... if they had we wouldn't be using 1970's cam grinds There are better..much better out there now
Current cars: 2000 Dak Quad Cab, 2012 Challenger,1970 Road Runner, 1994 Firehawk
1966 Coronet post sedan, 1988 Corvette, 2005 Magnum RT all SOLD
R70RUNNER<---VP Inland Empire Chapter of the MPM
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365547
07/06/09 02:17 AM
07/06/09 02:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
Quote:
Just don't tell us that it is tried and true and must be beaten to be dethroned as king- because it has been already.
I didn't say that though on any post... I just said it must be a decent cam if it is still on the market and mopar guys are still using them. No need for you to stir up an arguement.
You're right greenhorn, YOU started the arguement when you first came on here with the whole thread to begin with. Anybody not worshipping the MP junk is a fool in your eyes. So just run what you want, this is the internet, nothing to take very seriously.
BTW, I left the stock cam in my 383 RR when I had a chance to ditch it. So I'm still running an old tech cam myself.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#365548
07/06/09 03:35 AM
07/06/09 03:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
You're right greenhorn, YOU started the arguement when you first came on here with the whole thread to begin with. Anybody not worshipping the MP junk is a fool in your eyes.
You must be reading a playboy when your typing this cause you sure aren't reading the posts on this thread. Yeah I'm a real greenhorn after building 6 engines. I don't think there is anything out there to tell if someone is a greenhorn or expert doc.
Now I have been inputting and changing data into camquest for the past couple hours. The MP cams were a good line of cams to work around. Some of you were right that the 284 MP would be overcam for my 383. The 280 grind I had suggested before was right at where Comp cams is suggesting their line of cams.
The difference between the two is that comp cams has a shorter duration on the intake rather than have the duration the same for intake and exhaust.
The two cams Comp showed that would give me the best torque and hp numbers were the XE262 and XE268H. The XE262 would give me 380hp and 440lb. while the XE268H would give me 390hp and 430lb. So which would you guys go with? Torque or HP?
BTW the set up consisted of using a set of ported 346 heads, dual plane high flow intake, 750 cfm carb, 9.5:1 CR, and HP manifolds.
Last edited by DarkRunner; 07/06/09 03:51 AM.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
#365552
07/06/09 01:47 PM
07/06/09 01:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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With the camquest program, I can actually see what the car is going to be doing rather than trying to put cam names on a dart board. What's gonna be hard is trying to find a car that has a nice choppy to mild rough idle cause I know the good torque producing cars are low lift and don't have a very radical idle as say the other guy in the 500+ lift range.
Another thing, I'm heading out to the junkyard here in a few and am gonna be looking at heads. I know there's nothing wrong with my 346 heads, but if I come across a set of 915 or 516 heads you think it would be a better thought to go with closed chamber rather than open chamber heads?
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365553
07/06/09 01:50 PM
07/06/09 01:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
With the camquest program, I can actually see what the car is going to be doing rather than trying to put cam names on a dart board. What's gonna be hard is trying to find a car that has a nice choppy to mild rough idle cause I know the good torque producing cars are low lift and don't have a very radical idle as say the other guy in the 500+ lift range.
Another thing, I'm heading out to the junkyard here in a few and am gonna be looking at heads. I know there's nothing wrong with my 346 heads, but if I come across a set of 915 or 516 heads you think it would be a better thought to go with closed chamber rather than open chamber heads?
Didn't you just post 12 hours ago that you were going with Stealths???
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#365554
07/06/09 01:54 PM
07/06/09 01:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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I know I have the option of going with stealths, but if I find a set of 516's or 915's would it be just something good to snag and have stashed away?
And are the stealths an open or closed chamber head?
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#365557
07/06/09 02:36 PM
07/06/09 02:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,942 WI
Dcuda69
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,942
WI
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Quote:
Quote:
With the camquest program, I can actually see what the car is going to be doing rather than trying to put cam names on a dart board. What's gonna be hard is trying to find a car that has a nice choppy to mild rough idle cause I know the good torque producing cars are low lift and don't have a very radical idle as say the other guy in the 500+ lift range.
Another thing, I'm heading out to the junkyard here in a few and am gonna be looking at heads. I know there's nothing wrong with my 346 heads, but if I come across a set of 915 or 516 heads you think it would be a better thought to go with closed chamber rather than open chamber heads?
Didn't you just post 12 hours ago that you were going with Stealths???
That's why I stated this thread is all over the place!Now he wants a rough idling cam that makes good torque is a 383? I think it's time to sit this one out,I'll just spectate
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: 3twos]
#365559
07/06/09 02:42 PM
07/06/09 02:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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No, the data I put into camquest was using HP manifolds. I want to keep the motor looking stock and give it a lot more than what the factory was giving.
With a 3.91 gear, wouldn't that be too much gear? I've seen how easy it is to break traction with a stick. Another issue with the 71' b bodies is that there is hardly any weight in the rear and is hard to get good traction. An owner of a 71' charger told me this and also said there was a brick weight that the factory put on some cars right above the axle housing in attempt to get better traction. This brick weight was only 25lb. though.
Cuda, wouldn't a set of 915's work just as good as stealths? The only difference is the weight. It would be nice to have a set of 915 or other closed chamber head on the side in case finances fall through for the stealth heads. I'm still leaning towards stealth because I'm keeping the AC so it will help compensate for that.
And who doesn't want their car to have a nice sound at idle? Comp cams claimed that the XE262 and XE268H both have choppy to mildly rough idles, so I'll just take their word for it.
Last edited by DarkRunner; 07/06/09 02:52 PM.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365560
07/06/09 02:51 PM
07/06/09 02:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477 Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
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Quote:
No, the data I put into camquest was using HP manifolds. I want to keep the motor looking stock and give it a lot more than what the factory was giving.
With a 3.91 gear, wouldn't that be too much gear? I've seen how easy it is to break traction with a stick. Another issue with the 71' b bodies is that there is hardly any weight in the rear and is hard to get good traction. An owner of a 71' charger told me this and also said there was a brick weight that the factory put on some cars right above the axle housing in attempt to get better traction. This brick weight was only 25lb. though.
I think the brick weight is a tall tale myself...
Closed chamber heads can be thought of as different things I guess, because the Stealth heads are in the 84cc range... The aluminum will have to be accounted for as well as it will remove heat from the combustion chamber more than an iron head. I think the Stealth heads should have had a slightly smaller chamber to be considered "interchangeable" with iron heads for comparison purposes....
Don't use ANY kind of computer program as gospel. They will give good ideas, and general answers, but many can be wrong, tricked, and if the input isn't exact the outcome of the computer program won't be exact either. Enter a compression ratio "as claimed" would be a guess IMO, and not an exact figure. Same goes for head flow, combustion chamber cc, etc...
You can search for answers for a month before choosing a cam, and while you will most likley be ballpark in what you end up with, the experience will help you choose the next cam. And so on...
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365562
07/06/09 02:55 PM
07/06/09 02:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477 Canada
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,477
Canada
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Quote:
Cuda, wouldn't a set of 915's work just as good as stealths? The only difference is the weight. It would be nice to have a set of 915 or other closed chamber head on the side in case finances fall through for the stealth heads. I'm still leaning towards stealth because I'm keeping the AC so it will help compensate for that.
915s have 1.74 exhaust valves, but many heads with closed chambers came with 1.60 exhaust valves, not that there is anything wrong with 1.60's on a 383. They COULD be opened up to 1.74 anyways.... The wreckers have been picked over pretty good in the years gone by, finding 915s might be tough, I'm not sure in your neck of the woods...
Quote:
And who doesn't want their car to have a nice sound at idle? Comp cams claimed that the XE262 and XE268H both have choppy to mildly rough idles, so I'll just take their word for it.
My 268 Comp in a 400 had a burble at idle, but I wouldn't call it "choppy"... Nice idle, nice power from idle on up, I liked it. It pulled hard.
CrAzYMoPaRGuY
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365563
07/06/09 04:26 PM
07/06/09 04:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,095 Bloomington, Illernoise
cptn60
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,095
Bloomington, Illernoise
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you have posted on here all about different things regarding your motor. You haven't addressed the driveline and chassis at all. you are gonna need Caltracs, subframe connectors, torqueboxes and good axles. Blueprint your frontend; go to manual steering and you are definitely going to need more than 3.23s to achieve your et goal. Even, even, EVEN IF your engine cranks 400 horses at the flywheel, you need to remember MoPar built cars as packaged vehicles; THAT was the secret to success in the 60's. you aint building a shivverlay, so throw that stuff out the window. Build your motor like you say you want to, and then we will help you find the 2 seconds of et you are missing.
This space available for rent
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: cptn60]
#365564
07/06/09 06:08 PM
07/06/09 06:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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I could swear the XE268 was one of the choices from the beginning...lol. The 268 will have a slight chop with manifolds. It's smooth with headers and static around 9.8:1. Better heads can use smaller cams well, and fora car with full exhaust you want more lift and duration on the exh side because the scavenging isnt as good with them. That's the real basic stuff anyway. Hopefully some of you research told you that.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: moper]
#365565
07/06/09 06:40 PM
07/06/09 06:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565 IA
landon1
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 565
IA
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yup (that's the cam i suggested - i'm using it in my mild 440 build)....personally, the rough idle i never found to be all that great. on a racecar, fine, but on a street car it sounds ridiculous and you won't make power till 2500 or more RPMs.
i chose the XE 268 because, using camquest it was the best cam for my application (highest HP and TQ (compromise on torque, but not by much), it fit into my powerband (from 1500-5800 i believe are the specs), and i didn't want to change my converter. comp claims a slightly rough idle - idk if that's true or not. if so, fine, but if not it's not a big deal. if you get on youtube, there is a vid of a 71 GTO big block with a XE 268...it think it sounds healthy, not an over-cammed starving for air sound.
'71 Satellite Sebring 440
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: landon1]
#365566
07/06/09 08:29 PM
07/06/09 08:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
you have posted on here all about different things regarding your motor. You haven't addressed the driveline and chassis at all. you are gonna need Caltracs, subframe connectors, torqueboxes and good axles. Blueprint your frontend; go to manual steering and you are definitely going to need more than 3.23s to achieve your et goal. Even, even, EVEN IF your engine cranks 400 horses at the flywheel, you need to remember MoPar built cars as packaged vehicles; THAT was the secret to success in the 60's. you aint building a shivverlay, so throw that stuff out the window. Build your motor like you say you want to, and then we will help you find the 2 seconds of et you are missing.
I know the rest of the car needs to be brought up to specs with the engine once it's done. The car is already manual steering from the factory so I'll just check that off the list . As i mentioned before, I think the 3.55 or 3.73 gear is a good top and bottom gear, and what spline axles did the b bodies come with in those sure grip rear ends?
As far as the sound goes, if it has a nice roar to it thats fine. I'm not going for the dragster idle cause the motor won't be designed for that. I'm looking at getting more torque while getting the hp at 400 at the fly wheel. And why do 383 motors like to rev? I've heard that line a lot here on Moparts.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#365568
07/06/09 11:58 PM
07/06/09 11:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
Quote:
You're right greenhorn, YOU started the arguement when you first came on here with the whole thread to begin with. Anybody not worshipping the MP junk is a fool in your eyes.
You must be reading a playboy when your typing this cause you sure aren't reading the posts on this thread. Yeah I'm a real greenhorn after building 6 engines.
I don't know why you have such a piss poor attitude but you do. You obviously don't need our help, yet you are on here asking all of this stuff. SO which is it? Are you new to this or are you are ready to join up with John Force's team?
I'm not the only that has noticed you have this negative view of the collective advice here. I'm just not as nice as others and have no problem telling you that you have no reason to snap at those that have done this a time or 20.
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Re: 383 cam suggestions (4 speed owners chime in plz)
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#365569
07/07/09 01:52 AM
07/07/09 01:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583 San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
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Piss poor attitude? I've thanked everyone for their advice and apparently I did listen cause I picked out two comp cams to go with. I haven't snapped at anyone. So lets make this clear, I'm not pissin in anyone's cup a coffee here. YOU and ME aren't makin any impression on the rest of the guys on this forum by playing this "battle of messages". If your gonna keep jackin on me cause I'm 18 just to make yourself feel better than knock yourself out cause this isn't phasing me a bit. I basically agreed with your first post on page 1 of this thread by saying I was going with the XE268H or XE262. I just preferred using camquest cause that shows the numbers rather than picking a cam out of a hat. PS Force's team does sound pretty cool lol. Who wouldn't wanna be on that team?
Last edited by DarkRunner; 07/07/09 02:00 AM.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
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