New Paint job on a budget thread Part III - Moparts Forums

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Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Marq] #36514 05/29/07 06:06 AM 05/29/07 06:06 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Not going well for me im getting a lot of roller marks, orange peel and patches of shine and then patches of matt. Ive been thinning 10% with mineral spirits (Disolvente here in Spain) and also tried increasing the amount of thinner and tried applying very little at once and a lot with similar results. Anyone got any ideas from the pics and description, any help very much appreciated;

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36515 05/29/07 08:09 AM 05/29/07 08:09 AM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada Marq mopar addict
Marq mopar addict Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada	Quote: Not going well for me im getting a lot of roller marks, orange peel and patches of shine and then patches of matt. Ive been thinning 10% with mineral spirits (Disolvente here in Spain) and also tried increasing the amount of thinner and tried applying very little at once and a lot with similar results. Anyone got any ideas from the pics and description, any help very much appreciated; What brand of paint are you using ? And is the mineral spirits (Disolvente in Spain) a 100% pure mineral spirit or is it mineral spirit mixed with other thinner type solvents ? How many coats of paint is that in the picture ? It looks like quite a bad case of orange peel. Actually it looks more like the texture on an elephant's bum You will probably have to let it dry for a few days and then sand it down to a smooth surface before adding any more coats of paint. My initial guess at what happened is that it looks like more than one coat and the first coat was not fully cured or hardened. When the next coat was added, the solvent softened the lower layer of paint and caused the wrinkles. The flat spots ( without the gloss ) might indicate that the lower layer was not fully cured and hardened before the next coat was added. This would result in the vapors from the mineral spirit of the lower coat evaporating up and through the coat above it. The escaping vapors would give the top surface a matte look. Those are my first thoughts... But I would probably want more info about the brand of paint and whether the mineral spirits were 100% pure mineral spirits.. . Last edited by Marq; 05/29/07 08:10 AM.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36516 05/29/07 09:56 AM 05/29/07 09:56 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: Not going well for me im getting a lot of roller marks, orange peel and patches of shine and then patches of matt. Ive been thinning 10% with mineral spirits (Disolvente here in Spain) and also tried increasing the amount of thinner and tried applying very little at once and a lot with similar results. Anyone got any ideas from the pics and description, any help very much appreciated; Are you using the white high density "professional" rollers? If so you might try up-ing your mineral spirits ratio to 20% or maybe even 30%. This weekend I brushed some paint straight from the can on the panel behind my tailights and it looks like $%#*, it's way to thick. No biggie there cause you'll never see it anyway, but when I'm rollering my other panels with the 20% mix it lays super smooth. So smooth in fact, that I've done away with all but 1200 and 2000 grit for my wetsands. Anything else is to harsh for the amount of peel I need to remove. BTW what kind of paint is that?

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: 69chargeryeehaa] #36517 05/29/07 10:44 AM 05/29/07 10:44 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	I totally agree re the amount of dust that wetsanding doesn't create. When I dry sanded between coats, it was more like a wipe to remove little imperfections. And Steve C - I think you could go the satin route and then polish it up to a gloss, but I don't think it would be any easier than it would be to go full gloss anyway. And I'm not sure how glossy the final result would be vs a full-gloss job.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36518 05/29/07 11:15 AM 05/29/07 11:15 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,660 Flint, MI Gusteve I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Gusteve I Love the Unicorn Song!! Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,660 Flint, MI	OK - did a test fender over the weekend. I was hitting some of the nooks and crannies with a spray bomb, and it became real clear to me how much effort would be required to get a nice quality finish rolling gloss over the whole car. Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist, but I think I would end up spending the rest of the summer rolling, sanding, polishing, over and over. Aussie's car looks great, but I probably have at least twice the surface area to deal with on my Charger. So I'm going Satin, at least for now. I used Rustoleum, thinned about 25% (give or take) with 100% mineral spirits. It was pretty watery. My first section was way too thick (I could no longer see the previous red color under the new black). And MAN it was running like crazy. I used a second clean roller to re-work the entire panel, spreading the heavy coat in the first area around the rest of the panel. I think I'll back down on the thinner a bit for my next coat. Or, it sounds like the mixed paint in the can will thicken up a bit by the next time I get back to it. Pics: Before and After. 3531717-fenderpaintbefore.JPG (505 downloads)

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Gusteve] #36519 05/29/07 11:17 AM 05/29/07 11:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,660 Flint, MI Gusteve I Love the Unicorn Song!!
Gusteve I Love the Unicorn Song!! Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 5,660 Flint, MI	Here's the after: This is only one coat. Won't be able to do another coat until this weekend. 3531724-fenderpaintafter.JPG (608 downloads) Last edited by Steve C.; 05/29/07 11:18 AM.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Gusteve] #36520 05/29/07 11:25 AM 05/29/07 11:25 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	first coat didn't came out to well. i thined paint about 20-25% with mineral spirits, hvlp gun 35psi on gun got so many runs with first coat, now need to wait to dry and wet sand this @#$%. any advice befor next coat?

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36521 05/29/07 11:34 AM 05/29/07 11:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,220 toronto canada 69chargeryeehaa pro stock
69chargeryeehaa pro stock Joined: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,220 toronto canada	Quote: first coat didn't came out to well. i thined paint about 20-25% with mineral spirits, hvlp gun 35psi on gun got so many runs with first coat, now need to wait to dry and wet sand this @#$%. any advice befor next coat? test on an old hood, i can't stress this enough, you have to learn the paint, process ect..... I've sprayed the paint before, using a HVLP gun, and it flowed and sprayed perfectly, actually the nicest paint i've ever sprayed, and the workability was incredible. If you got runs, you for sure put too much paint, or thinned it too much. Have you painted before? Don't stress too much, let it dry a day and wetsand with 600-800, it will go quick. I could wetsand that car by hand in about 3-4 hours regardless of how much peel there is, and runs. If you shoot it right, you should wetsand that car in less than 1 hour. Don't wait too long for it to dry, it will be harder to wetsand.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Marq] #36522 05/29/07 01:35 PM 05/29/07 01:35 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: What brand of paint are you using ? And is the mineral spirits (Disolvente in Spain) a 100% pure mineral spirit or is it mineral spirit mixed with other thinner type solvents ? How many coats of paint is that in the picture ? Its brightside im not sure what disolvente is its the normal thing used to thin paint I used the same stuff to thin the paint I spray painted last year. Thats about 3/4 coats and despite wetsanding to supersmooth between this is what it looks like. I am using the highest density rollers Ive found in my local paint shops, maybe thats not enough....?? Will wetsand down tomorrow and try to paint another coat but 30% thinned. I left it 24 hours between coat and its quite hot here.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36523 05/29/07 04:27 PM 05/29/07 04:27 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: I left it 24 hours between coat and its quite hot here. The hotter it is, the thinner your gonna want your paint, it may be that the surface of your coats is curing before you finish working it causing the peel.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36524 05/29/07 05:04 PM 05/29/07 05:04 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada Marq mopar addict
Marq mopar addict Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada	Quote: Its brightside im not sure what disolvente is its the normal thing used to thin paint I used the same stuff to thin the paint I spray painted last year. Thats about 3/4 coats and despite wetsanding to supersmooth between this is what it looks like. I am using the highest density rollers Ive found in my local paint shops, maybe thats not enough....?? Will wetsand down tomorrow and try to paint another coat but 30% thinned. I left it 24 hours between coat and its quite hot here. Well... I would not be wet sanding at this point. I would pull out something in the 400 to 600 range and use a sander to level it out. The way some of it looks, it almost appears like you could take a scraper and scrape it off. The problem with this Spanish " disolvente " is that it may not be 100% mineral spirit. Some companies sell solvents that contain a little of this and a little of that ( oh and some mineral spirit ). We know through experimentation how 100% mineral spirit ( both regular and odorless versions ) will react with the paint. But if this packaged Spanish 'disolvente' is a combination of different solvents, it may 'cure' too fast... or it may be more powerful than 100% mineral spirit and have the ability to eat away at the lower coating. After all... that is what mineral spirit is capable of... helping to remove uncured paint during a clean up... or for washing your hands to get the paint off them. The one absolute answer to ensuring that the mineral spirit is not part of the problem... is to buy the 'genuine Interlux Brightside thinner'... I believe it is product # 333. At least that way you would be guaranteed 100% compatibility and predictability on how it will blend with the Brightside paint. Might cost a few bucks more than a no-name 'disolvente' - but at least you will know what you are working with. Since you are using Brightside... the game plan might be to seriously sand the current paint back to square one. I know it is a pain taking 10 steps backward after all that work... but sometimes that is the easiest path to getting a decent paint job in the end. Ok... so sand the puppy back to square one. Wipe it all down with a cloth that is gently dampened with REAL 100% mineral spirits. LET IT DRY for one or two days. Take a 'tack' cloth and wipe down the surface of any dust or bugs that landed on it over the two day you let dry out. Working in the shade... ( no direct sun ) and possibly early in the morning or late at night when the temperature is coolest you will paint. Take the Brightside paint and don't cut it at all with mineral spirits. Pour it straight from the can into your paint tray. APPLY it thinly.... don't try to get 100% color coverage on this first painting. Just pretend you are trying to 'tint' the color on to the car. The thinner the layer the better. Keep sayin to yourself... 'thinest is bestest'... Let the vehicle dry in the shade... Don't leave it out in the sun or where the paint will dry faster than it normally would like to. You have to remember that the paint is using this time to self-level... and if it dried too quickly it may not reach its maximum level of smoothness before the drying process stops it from leveling. Now... let that initial layer dry for two days. Let's just make sure this puppy is 100% dry before going to the next coat of paint. For your next painting session... again pick a time early in the morning or late at night when temperatures are at their coolest. IF it is a rainy day.... or foggy day... or the air is heavy with humidity.... don't paint on that day. Wait until you have a day where the air is dry... ( I know it is a pain to have to be relying on the weather so much... but it really does impact how the paint reacts and dries ). Do your next coating of Brightside... just like you did the first layer. Use as little paint for each section as you can. The idea is not to load up a big wet roller and smear it around. The trick is to take as little as possible on the roller and spread it on like you are the cheapest guy in the world and you are trying to stretch out every drop of paint to its maximum. Again... once this phase of the paint job is done... leave it in the shade and let it dry for two or three days. Then come back again on a nice dry and cool morning or evening and repeat the process again. Applying a third superthin layer of paint. Let it dry for a few days. At this point decide whether you want to add another layer of paint or to do a wet sand to work out any rough spots in the paint that has been applied so far. If you are lucky... you may be able to go another coat of paint. But even if you have to do a wet sanding... it should not be much work... and your wet sanding should be very light... because the layers of paint can't be too thick at this point. Hopefully this will help get your from your present state to a much better and more presentable state... Marq Last edited by Marq; 05/29/07 05:09 PM.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Marq] #36525 05/29/07 05:17 PM 05/29/07 05:17 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	"The trick is to take as little as possible on the roller and spread it on like you are the cheapest guy in the world and you are trying to stretch out every drop of paint to its maximum." LOL, Too Funny!! I was just laughing at myself thinking the exact same thing as I was rolling my taillight panels yesterday.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Gusteve] #36526 05/29/07 06:34 PM 05/29/07 06:34 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Alright, another Satin Black ride!

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36527 05/29/07 08:57 PM 05/29/07 08:57 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	For those who sprayed rustoleum... What did u use? and at what psi thinnin %'s etc? I have a 30 gal speedaire - and a hvlp gun... What tip size should be used? I tried searching but the threads are over 100 pages... lol If anyone can help that'd be great! I'm loving the satin black so that's what im going for...

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36528 05/29/07 09:41 PM 05/29/07 09:41 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Quote: For those who sprayed rustoleum... What did u use? and at what psi thinnin %'s etc? I have a 30 gal speedaire - and a hvlp gun... What tip size should be used? I tried searching but the threads are over 100 pages... lol If anyone can help that'd be great! I'm loving the satin black so that's what im going for... rustoleum sunburst yellow + mineral spirits after setting gun right and presure on gun 46psi it came out good still have few runs, but thats my fault still cant get used to hvlp gun its putting much more paint then my old gun, oh yeah for me, mix 6-3 (6 part of paint to 3 part of mineral spirits) work out the best. make sure u use pressure regulator on gun, without it set presure around 10 psi higher on compresor, depends how long your pressure hose is

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36529 05/29/07 09:48 PM 05/29/07 09:48 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	20 feet... but im up for getting a new hose... it's leaky once in a while. Also- for some reason my compressor fills up and does not turn off automatically... any idea how i can fix that? Im going to get some satin black tomorrow and test it on an old fender. Im painting in a garage- as far as ventilation and cleanliness... I assume I have to take everything out and leave the garage door slightly open? Im new at this... sorry- Thanks for all! I love this thread

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36530 05/29/07 10:09 PM 05/29/07 10:09 PM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada Marq mopar addict
Marq mopar addict Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada	Quote: rustoleum sunburst yellow + mineral spirits after setting gun right and presure on gun 46psi it came out good still have few runs, but thats my fault still cant get used to hvlp gun its putting much more paint then my old gun, oh yeah for me, mix 6-3 (6 part of paint to 3 part of mineral spirits) work out the best. make sure u use pressure regulator on gun, without it set presure around 10 psi higher on compresor, depends how long your pressure hose is One of the best tips shared in the thread by a previous spray painter was to have a couple of those high density 4 inch foam rollers nearby while spraying. IF you spot a run... you can quickly hit them with a clean roller ( not loaded up ) and work the run out. Then it will self-level along with the sprayed on paint and you won't be able to detect where the run occured. It's more of a problem fixing runs after the paint has cured. So by whacking runs right away with a roller... your fix on the fly will blend right in and be undetectable. That is one of the benefits of this paint method - whether rolling or spraying... in that the curing time of the paint allows you enough time to work out the problems on the fly... . Last edited by Marq; 05/29/07 10:12 PM.

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Marq] #36531 05/30/07 02:52 AM 05/30/07 02:52 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Thats a good idea! =) Well, I found out why my compressor wont go off- the pressure switch is messed up... it just stays on weather its set to off or auto/on- Anyone know where i can get a new one cheap? Thanks much! Quote: Quote: rustoleum sunburst yellow + mineral spirits after setting gun right and presure on gun 46psi it came out good still have few runs, but thats my fault still cant get used to hvlp gun its putting much more paint then my old gun, oh yeah for me, mix 6-3 (6 part of paint to 3 part of mineral spirits) work out the best. make sure u use pressure regulator on gun, without it set presure around 10 psi higher on compresor, depends how long your pressure hose is One of the best tips shared in the thread by a previous spray painter was to have a couple of those high density 4 inch foam rollers nearby while spraying. IF you spot a run... you can quickly hit them with a clean roller ( not loaded up ) and work the run out. Then it will self-level along with the sprayed on paint and you won't be able to detect where the run occured. It's more of a problem fixing runs after the paint has cured. So by whacking runs right away with a roller... your fix on the fly will blend right in and be undetectable. That is one of the benefits of this paint method - whether rolling or spraying... in that the curing time of the paint allows you enough time to work out the problems on the fly... .

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. [Re: Marq] #36532 05/30/07 06:42 AM 05/30/07 06:42 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Thanks for the help mark Ive got through 2 cans of brightside now so that probably a sign of me laying it on too thick do i need to go back to square one or to a point where everything is uniformly smooth? Since were only talking about thinning 10% could I apply it without thinning, reason is it took a couple of weeks to get the brightside since I had to import 6 750ml cans from England and I fear the spanish may not have the #333?

Re: New Paint job on a budget thread. #36533 05/30/07 09:17 AM 05/30/07 09:17 AM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada Marq mopar addict
Marq mopar addict Joined: May 2006 Posts: 575 Canada	Quote: Thanks for the help mark Ive got through 2 cans of brightside now so that probably a sign of me laying it on too thick do i need to go back to square one or to a point where everything is uniformly smooth? Since were only talking about thinning 10% could I apply it without thinning, reason is it took a couple of weeks to get the brightside since I had to import 6 750ml cans from England and I fear the spanish may not have the #333? I would say that at this point it is worth using a power sander to level out the coatings down to one uniform and level surface. Depending on how wicked some of those elephant wrinkles are, you may end up having to remove quite a bit to remove all those peaks and level it down to a common level of all the valleys. In other spots where the elephantitis isn't so bad... you may be able to just reduce the surface to one uniform level and not have to remove as much. One beauty of the Brightside is that it is designed to be applied by roller straight out of the can. So you can probably avoid having to go the 333 route as long as you stick to the plan to slap on superthin layers the next time you go to apply the paint. The main benefit the 333 would give you is 'more working time' to work on the paint and do secondary rolling over areas where bubbles might form after you freshly apply the paint or to catch any runs. I have never been to Spain... but from what I 'think I know' of your climate.. you probably are in a relatively consistently warm climate - but you may have a humidity problem there if you are in the coatal areas of that country. If so, that is where the 333 might be of some benefit to you. The key thing at this point is to get your subsurface as smooth as possible before restarting your painting. And don't forget. Act like Scrooge with that paint... Pretend you have the last cans of that paint in the world. I would say that you should use no more than 1/2 of a 750 ml can of paint per painting session. When pouring your paint into the tray... only put about 1/8th of the can in the tray at a time - and keep the lid sealed tight on the can while you are painting. This will help keep the paint fresh and at roughly the same of freshness as you start each of the four main sections on your vehicle. So if you follow that recipe... you should only need to pour paint in the tray 4 times during a painting session. Figure on 1/8th for the roof and hood, 1/8th for the left side panels, 1/8th for the right side panels and 1/8th for the rear trunk area. Yup... the layering should be that thin... Hopefully that gives you a better idea of how Scroogy you should be with the paint. Give this recipe a try and hopefully by the time you have laid down that first coat, with just half of a can... you will know whether you should spring for the 333 thinner to give yourself more working time.. . Last edited by Marq; 05/30/07 09:21 AM.

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