Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads #351997
06/19/09 06:12 PM
06/19/09 06:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
R
Rodney Offline OP
mopar
Rodney  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
We are looking at upgrading the rockers on the 572.
is it worth the effort to go with the Jesel rockers and machine the heads?
any other rocker upgrades worth the effort?
we are currently running Harlin Sharpe 1.5 would like to go 1.6
The rocker arm shafts and bolts are bent now as well.
anything else to consider when selecting rocker arms?
Thanks for any advice.

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: Rodney] #351998
06/19/09 06:59 PM
06/19/09 06:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 644
Minnesota
Barnstorm Offline
mopar
Barnstorm  Offline
mopar

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 644
Minnesota
I need to upgrade my 440-1 indy rockers and heard Harland Sharps were bolt on and maybe use my old pushrods. Couldn't you get some new shafts etc and use your HS rockers.saving some money?

5303284-mopar_resize.jpg (463 downloads)

The little old lady from Pasadena is back!
Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: Rodney] #351999
06/19/09 07:33 PM
06/19/09 07:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,104
Wheels up, MO
N
nhramark Offline
master
nhramark  Offline
master
N

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,104
Wheels up, MO
Jesel or T & D. I read your other post and with the money you saved on the block, a top notch valvetrain would be money well spent.

My 440-1 heads use Jesels, one pair of rockers per cylinder. You eliminate that long shaft and the rockers themselves are very strong, I have not hurt one yet. A close friend of mine had the same results with his T & D rockers.

Nothing against Harland Sharpe, they have their place, but are not on the same level. You will also be needing new pushrods and should be considering how you want them to be oiled. I use the spray bar valve covers, but a lot of guys prefer pushrod oiling.


[image]http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/nhramark1/library/Racing[/image] 9.100 @ 150 mph 5.780 @ 120 mph
Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: nhramark] #352000
06/19/09 07:51 PM
06/19/09 07:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
R
Rodney Offline OP
mopar
Rodney  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
Quote:

Jesel or T & D. I read your other post and with the money you saved on the block, a top notch valvetrain would be money well spent.

My 440-1 heads use Jesels, one pair of rockers per cylinder. You eliminate that long shaft and the rockers themselves are very strong, I have not hurt one yet. A close friend of mine had the same results with his T & D rockers.

Nothing against Harland Sharpe, they have their place, but are not on the same level. You will also be needing new pushrods and should be considering how you want them to be oiled. I use the spray bar valve covers, but a lot of guys prefer pushrod oiling.




Oh yes oiling
that does have to be addressed since the hollow shaft will be gone.
push rod oiling?
does that require different roller cam and cam rollers along with push rods? IT must.
Valve cover spray sounds like it may be less cost but is this as effective?
Bob @ Bartons say they have a rocker system similar to Jesels but he seemed a bit mysterious about the whole deal? he wouldn't give me a price or and any particulars..

Since with the Jesel or other serious upgrades the heads will need to be machined.
Only have once chance to do this kind of thing.

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: Rodney] #352001
06/19/09 08:53 PM
06/19/09 08:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
master
Bob_Coomer  Offline
master

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
After running the Jesel rocker system, I would go with T&D on that setup.
The Jesel system is fine, but the extra machining, and the headache of oil lines etc. The T&D gets my pick. Only advantage of running Jesel that i can see is the extra room for running large OD springs. Although I have heard a few people running 1.625 springs with the T&D setup.


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: Bob_Coomer] #352002
06/19/09 09:27 PM
06/19/09 09:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
R
Rodney Offline OP
mopar
Rodney  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
Thanks Bob
I looked at the T D website not much to look at.
I'll have to give them a call Monday.
Do they require special oiling and machine work to the heads?

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: Rodney] #352003
06/19/09 09:41 PM
06/19/09 09:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
This thread should answer some of your questions. There are a few other threads on the "best of" section that cover related subjects.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=1#Post3204113

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: Rodney] #352004
06/19/09 09:43 PM
06/19/09 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
Here is another thread from the archive: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post4123002

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: AndyF] #352005
06/19/09 10:16 PM
06/19/09 10:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
R
Rodney Offline OP
mopar
Rodney  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
Thank you Andy,
I see right now the Jesel arms are not in the near future. The heads would need to be sent to a shop with the expertise to do the job correctly.
This will be an off season project.
That was an excellent thread Thanks again.

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: Rodney] #352006
06/20/09 01:30 AM
06/20/09 01:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
I don't recommend converting shaft heads over to Jesel heads because you have to redrill existing holes. If you have the choice it would be better to start with new heads that are machined up front for the Jesel rocker arms. That isn't always an option but it would be the recommended way to go.

I re-drilled my EZ heads for the Jesel conversion and it came out okay but I have access to better equipment than most people. I had to engineer my own setup because Indy wouldn't provide a Jesel setup for the EZ heads. If you're starting with 440-1 heads then at least there is an off the shelf rocker arm kit for that head.

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: AndyF] #352007
06/20/09 10:30 AM
06/20/09 10:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
R
Rodney Offline OP
mopar
Rodney  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
Thanks again Andy!
Do you do work for other racers?
I sent T&D and e-mail asking about their rockers in a 1.6 ratio and what if anything else may need to be done for them to fit the 440-1 heads.
I found some nice images on the site,
They look like a very good product that are shaft mounted so if they are bolt on they would be a good choice.

With the Harlin Sharpe rockers and 440-1 heads I had to grind material from the old 500 block for the push rods to clear the block due to the angle of the push rods. Would a set of rockers made with different off set give me more clearance so I would not have to grind my new block? or not have to grind as much material.

I need to ask them if my push rods I'm using with the Harlin Sharpe rockers will work?
Thanks again for all of the great advice.
You all have saved me hours if not days of research, pain and agony with your experience.

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: AndyF] #352008
06/20/09 10:35 AM
06/20/09 10:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,104
Wheels up, MO
N
nhramark Offline
master
nhramark  Offline
master
N

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,104
Wheels up, MO
Quote:

If you have the choice it would be better to start with new heads that are machined up front for the Jesel rocker arms.




To be fair, my heads were set up for the Jesel rockers right from the start.


[image]http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/nhramark1/library/Racing[/image] 9.100 @ 150 mph 5.780 @ 120 mph
Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: Rodney] #352009
06/20/09 10:42 AM
06/20/09 10:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
A
AndyF Offline
I Win
AndyF  Offline
I Win
A

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,023
Oregon
Quote:

Thanks again Andy!
Thanks again for all of the great advice.
You all have saved me hours if not days of research, pain and agony with your experience.





No problem. If you found those posts helpful then maybe you'll want to buy the book. The book has 400+ pictures that cover the same basic topics.

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: AndyF] #352010
06/20/09 10:53 AM
06/20/09 10:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,229
In The Hills
J
jughed Offline
pro stock
jughed  Offline
pro stock
J

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,229
In The Hills
Quote:

I sent T&D and e-mail asking about their rockers in a 1.6 ratio and what if anything else may need to be done for them to fit the 440-1 heads.
I found some nice images on the site,
They look like a very good product that are shaft mounted so if they are bolt on they would be a good choice.




the T&Ds are very nice. i bolted some 1.6s to the 440-1s without any mods or clearance grinding. had to get new pushrods, T&Ds use the ball/ball type

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: AndyF] #352011
06/20/09 11:09 AM
06/20/09 11:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
R
Rodney Offline OP
mopar
Rodney  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
Quote:

Quote:

Thanks again Andy!
Thanks again for all of the great advice.
You all have saved me hours if not days of research, pain and agony with your experience.





No problem. If you found those posts helpful then maybe you'll want to buy the book. The book has 400+ pictures that cover the same basic topics.





Oh yes Don't have that one!
I have hundreds of books one more can never hurt.
I'll go in search of it.
Amazon?

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: jughed] #352012
06/20/09 11:12 AM
06/20/09 11:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
R
Rodney Offline OP
mopar
Rodney  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
Quote:

Quote:

I sent T&D and e-mail asking about their rockers in a 1.6 ratio and what if anything else may need to be done for them to fit the 440-1 heads.
I found some nice images on the site,
They look like a very good product that are shaft mounted so if they are bolt on they would be a good choice.




the T&Ds are very nice. i bolted some 1.6s to the 440-1s without any mods or clearance grinding. had to get new pushrods, T&Ds use the ball/ball type




That's real good news I didn't want to take the grinder to a brand spankin' new engine block.

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: Rodney] #352013
06/20/09 02:43 PM
06/20/09 02:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,229
In The Hills
J
jughed Offline
pro stock
jughed  Offline
pro stock
J

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,229
In The Hills
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I sent T&D and e-mail asking about their rockers in a 1.6 ratio and what if anything else may need to be done for them to fit the 440-1 heads.
I found some nice images on the site,
They look like a very good product that are shaft mounted so if they are bolt on they would be a good choice.




the T&Ds are very nice. i bolted some 1.6s to the 440-1s without any mods or clearance grinding. had to get new pushrods, T&Ds use the ball/ball type




That's real good news I didn't want to take the grinder to a brand spankin' new engine block.





ooops...sorry, i forgot to mention that the heads are bolted on a Mega block

no grinding needed on the block, but some pushrods are pretty close

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: jughed] #352014
06/20/09 03:41 PM
06/20/09 03:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
R
Rodney Offline OP
mopar
Rodney  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
The original block I started with was a Mega block which I had to clearance a lot.
Will have to see when the world block and new rockers arrive.
I sure hope the T&D rockers are in stock and ready to ship.
Not much good about this whole messed up deal other than I do get some more dyno time testing the new engine. I'm not expecting any more HP from what I started with but will be interesting to see.
new good solid block
1.6 rockers
the other camshaft I have.

Re: upgrading rocker arms / shafts on Indy 440-1 heads [Re: nhramark] #352015
06/22/09 03:36 PM
06/22/09 03:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
R
Rodney Offline OP
mopar
Rodney  Offline OP
mopar
R

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 603
Central Oregon
Ordered the T&D rockers in 1.6 ratio Directly from T&D, cost will be a little over 1K after shipping and they are about a week backed up in the shop.
I'll have Smith Bros build some push rods once we get things setup and measured.
Thanks for all the advice







Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1