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any good way to trouble shoot? UPDATE #341560
06/08/09 06:45 PM
06/08/09 06:45 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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on my big block dakota, from a stop, I have to pump the pedal a few times before actually letting the clutch out and loading up the engine. this kinda gets the rpms up slowly, and allows the pump to squirt more fuel.

if I'm parked, in neutral and I go from idle to WOT without pumping...it'll hesitate, cough, and die.

so I'm 99% sure I need more fuel from the squirters.

carb is a holly 750 HP (double pumper, mechanical secondaries, and no choke)

438 stroker, 10.5 compression, eddy heads, RPM intake, bla bla bla

the accelerator pumps are still stock settings.

is there any good way to go about trouble shooting the proper method to getting them set correctly, or is there no way to do it other than to adjust it and test it?

how do I know if I need: A) larger quirter nozzles for more fuel faster, B) a different cam to deliver a longer shot, or C) larger pump? do I start changing the cams? the cam position? do I jump straight to the 50cc pump?

Last edited by 70Cuda383; 06/10/09 11:30 AM.

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Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 70Cuda383] #341561
06/08/09 06:50 PM
06/08/09 06:50 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
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Are you getting a pump shot IMMEDIATELY off idle? Check that--you might find that a cam adjustment to one of the other screw positions will fill the gap (if in fact a gap is present)

Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 70Cuda383] #341562
06/08/09 06:50 PM
06/08/09 06:50 PM
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Gainesville,FL
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First you have to adjust the pump to work as soon as the throttle is opened. Anytime you change the idle speed screw you should check that you haven't caused the accel pump to be out of adjustment. First step if all is correct and you still have a problem would be to up the shooter a few numbers and retest. 50cc pump isn't needed to cure the problem.

Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 70Cuda383] #341563
06/08/09 06:55 PM
06/08/09 06:55 PM
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God's Country Maryland
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First, make sure the squirter adjusting spring is just touching the arm and moves the instant your throttle moves. There should be no gap between the spring and arm. Then look at the squirter to see if it's actually squirting fuel. If this is all good, remove the nozzle and start drilling the holes bigger a little at a time, reinstall and drive. Repeat if necessary. There will be those chiming in saying not to drill the nozzles out but I've done this for over 30 years and it always works.


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Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: GODSCOUNTRY340] #341564
06/08/09 07:02 PM
06/08/09 07:02 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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so start out with bigger nozzles? I already know the pump starts to deliver as soon as the throttle moves it seems to take maybe a half second or so for the entire pump shot to be delivered--which is really a long time I would think...I can count "one-one thou..." during the pump shot


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Post deleted by Defbob [Re: 70Cuda383] #341565
06/08/09 07:41 PM
06/08/09 07:41 PM

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Re: any good way to trouble shoot? #341566
06/08/09 09:03 PM
06/08/09 09:03 PM
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Chino Valley
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First, clean/check the squirters.
Next, swap squirters if you have a buddy with a selection. It sounds like the cam is willing, but the oriface is too small.
IF you can't find a squirter that makes it happy, start swapping cams. Yo uwill want something that lifts sooner. If you take them off and hold them up to each other, you can see this. There are usually more than one hole you can try too, but try the squirters first.

Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 70Cuda383] #341567
06/08/09 09:35 PM
06/08/09 09:35 PM
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Rock Springs
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Quote:

so start out with bigger nozzles? I already know the pump starts to deliver as soon as the throttle moves it seems to take maybe a half second or so for the entire pump shot to be delivered--which is really a long time I would think...I can count "one-one thou..." during the pump shot




If it has a flat spot during the transition of the opening of the 2nds, opening up the squirters could make it worse. I have found a few times a smaller squirter helps out. I have seem lots of dominators come OOTB with #25 squirters.
I know thats not a good comparison, but I have never had a dominator that had a flat/lean spot.


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Post deleted by Defbob [Re: Bob_Coomer] #341568
06/08/09 09:51 PM
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Re: any good way to trouble shoot? #341569
06/08/09 11:30 PM
06/08/09 11:30 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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Quote:

secondaries opening with no progression ? too much air ?




do you mean, are the secondaries opening up right away WITH the primaries? no, they are not. I can give it about 1/4 throttle or so before they start to come in.


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Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 70Cuda383] #341570
06/09/09 12:59 AM
06/09/09 12:59 AM
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Jefferson, OR
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Is it possible that the feul is draining back isn't there a ball check if i remember right to keep the feul passages full and ready to shoot.

Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 70Cuda383] #341571
06/09/09 01:47 AM
06/09/09 01:47 AM
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Western Michigan
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I know this is taking you in another direction but is it possible you have a bad plug wire. Take a peek at night and see if any are doing the lightening dance.

Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 68Fastback] #341572
06/09/09 07:07 AM
06/09/09 07:07 AM
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Are we talking raceing or street? are you launching off a 2 step at 6000
At what rpm are you letting the clutch out you may be well into the pump shot befor you are letting the clutch out.


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Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: wildcargo] #341573
06/09/09 10:26 AM
06/09/09 10:26 AM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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plug wires are brand new firecores, and are much better than what I had before...no arcing.

street driving, just off idle, before I even get to let the clutch out...I have to pump the pedal to get the rpms up so I CAN let the clutch out

and, how would fuel be draining back while the fuel pump is running?


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Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 70Cuda383] #341574
06/09/09 10:48 AM
06/09/09 10:48 AM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

plug wires are brand new firecores, and are much better than what I had before...no arcing.

street driving, just off idle, before I even get to let the clutch out...I have to pump the pedal to get the rpms up so I CAN let the clutch out

and, how would fuel be draining back while the fuel pump is running?




Can you just hit the throttle to WOT and have the
engine rev right up(just free revs)

Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #341575
06/09/09 12:37 PM
06/09/09 12:37 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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nope. I thought I said earlier that if I did that, it stalls out. I meant to anyway!

if I'm slow with it, then it will rev, but if I snap it open from idle, it dies.

it's pretty much done this since day one, and I've just driven around it since it's a stick...but I'm getting tired of "driving around it"

also, its only off idle. if I take it up to 10-15 mph, lift off the throttle, then smash it down, it takes off just fine


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Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 70Cuda383] #341576
06/09/09 12:39 PM
06/09/09 12:39 PM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline OP
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one thing I have not tried is a "race launch" where I bring the RPMs up and then drop the clutch, mostly because I know that would result in lots of tire smoke.

however...if I tried that. I'd still have the problem..when the truck is not moving, and at idle, I'd have to give the throttle a few pumps before actually trying to bring the RPMS up.


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Re: any good way to trouble shoot? [Re: 70Cuda383] #341577
06/10/09 11:35 AM
06/10/09 11:35 AM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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hmm...wow...so simple, kinda makes ya feel like an idiot!

I checked the cams, and they were NOT delivering fuel until the throttles had opened up a little.

I moved the cams and now fuel is flowing as soon as the throttle moves.

started it up and let it get warm, and I can tell that it's probably 75% fixed. I can get on the gas a lot faster now without any hesitation, however, if I mash it, it's on the verge of dying...if I let it idle and clear all the fuel out of the intake, and mash it open, it still dies. if I bring the revs up gradually, let it come down to idle and mash it open, it revs fine (residual fuel still in the intake?)

anyway, maybe a larger squirter nozzel so the pump shot doesn't last so long, and delivers more fuel right away?

or a different cam that offers more pump stroke?

I'm leaning towards larger nozzels becuse it dies if it's snapped open, but if opened slowly, it does fine.

current nozzle is labeled as a 31...do I go larger number or smaller number? (is a 25 larger or smaller diameter than a 31?)

my smallest drillbit is a 1/16" and I'm NOT drilling this thing out to a 1/16 inch hole!


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