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Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: nebo] #33093 01/02/09 04:05 PM 01/02/09 04:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX Clair_Davis master
Clair_Davis master Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX	I promise, I haven't forgotten about you... I just excavated the parts from my garage last night - I literally can just barely turn around in there... I'll have some numbers for you tonight. I'll get the Dak diaphragm clutch bolted down to the Dak flywheel, and measure that way. Clair 68 Sport Fury Vert (440/727) Getting a heart transplant... 69 Valiant 100 (340/833/EFI)

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #33094 01/03/09 07:16 PM 01/03/09 07:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX Clair_Davis master
Clair_Davis master Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX	OK, here's what I found. All measurements are referenced off of the crank flange surface where the flywheel bolts down. With a functional clutch disk installed and the pressure plate torqued down, the diaphragm fingers were 3.425" above the crank flange. The flywheel was 0.700" thick at the bolt flange, and 1.35" thick from the wear surface down to the crank flange. For comparison to the Hemi, the mounting surface of the crank flange to the LA block is 0.6", and the LA crank flange bolt pattern is about 6x3.435" DIA. The 3.7L V6 crank flange bolt pattern is 8x3.137" DIA. I'd be interested to see what the Hemi's crank BP is, just so I'd know. I hope this info helps you figure out what's going on, and I'm sorry it took so long to get to you. Keep us posted. Clair 68 Sport Fury Vert (440/727) Getting a heart transplant... 69 Valiant 100 (340/833/EFI)

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #33095 01/06/09 12:22 PM 01/06/09 12:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA N nebo member
nebo member N Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA	Clair, Thanks for making those measurements for me they were very helpful. It looks like the PP finger distance measurements between my PP and yours are close enough, within 0.1 inches and the FW wear surface to block measurement on mine is 1.665 inches where as on yours it is 1.95 inches. So if anything I should have more spacing of the PP fingers to throw-out bearing than you do, so something else is wrong, probably something stupid that I did. I'll mock things up again and try to figure it out. The slave cylinder I have from the Dakota is brand new and has a plastic retainer tab that is designed to snapped off before use, it may be possible that it has locked the slave cylinder piston in the extended position and this could be why I am having this problem. I'll keep you posted on my progress. The other question I had was if you knew whether the Jeep AX15 cast iron front bearing retainer was the same as that used on the Dakota since the jeep unit seems to be easier to get than one from a Dakota. The 3rd gen hemi flywheel bolt circle is the same as the V6 8 X 3.137" however the bolt holes are not evenly spaced around the circle. There is a cluster of 4 evenly spaced holes then a wider gap then another cluster of 4 evenly spaced bolt holes and another wider gap, same width as the first wider gap. I wonder if the V6 FW is set up the same way.

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: nebo] #33096 01/06/09 11:31 PM 01/06/09 11:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX Clair_Davis master
Clair_Davis master Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX	Nebo, I'm about 99% sure that the 3.7L V6 flywheel is the same. I have an auto trans flex plate that I bought to check fitment with my LA block and 3.7L bellhousing. The bell bolts up fine, but the LA flywheel doesn't work because the ring gear is too far back and doesn't engage the bendix. If the LA flywheel was .3" closer to the block, it might just work. AFAIK, the Jeep and Dak retainers are the same, as long as they're the iron type. I think there's a nearly-flat aluminum one that you don't want. They guys in the source I got from Greg know their parts and can get you what you need. Clair 68 Sport Fury Vert (440/727) Getting a heart transplant... 69 Valiant 100 (340/833/EFI)

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #33097 04/03/09 04:12 PM 04/03/09 04:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA N nebo member
nebo member N Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA	Buschi, Time to return to my R154 in the Cuda project. Need to purchase a pressure plate, disk and pilot bearing. Your pressure plate looks like the Center Force 2 model do you remember the part number, is it CFT361890? Where did you get your pilot bearing? I assume the disk is from Advanced Adapters part number AA 716105.

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: nebo] #33098 04/03/09 04:26 PM 04/03/09 04:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast Buschi340 OP mopar
Buschi340 OP mopar Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast	Hi Nebo, pressure plate is indeed the Centerforce2. Don't have the p/n, I bought it used from a friend. It came out of a 383. Pilot bearing is from a local dodge dealer. It is the needle bearing type from Mopar Performance. p/n should be 53009180. Advanced Adapters disk: on the package is noted: p/n 716105 Toyota Truck 1-1/8-21 so you are right on that.

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #33099 04/06/09 02:26 PM 04/06/09 02:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA N nebo member
nebo member N Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA	Buschi, Thanks for the info. I thought the pilot bearing 53009180 was for an A833 tranny input shaft which is bigger in diameter than the R154. Am I correct about this and if so what did you do to make it work with the R154?

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: nebo] #33100 04/06/09 04:15 PM 04/06/09 04:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast Buschi340 OP mopar
Buschi340 OP mopar Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast	you are right. You need to fabricate an adapter like I did. I think it's the easiest way. See picture... 5146774-adapter.jpg (306 downloads)

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Buschi340] #33101 04/06/09 04:45 PM 04/06/09 04:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA N nebo member
nebo member N Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA	Buschi, Very nice job on the adapter, how did you attach it to the input shaft, interference fit or some other means. Do you recall what the outer diameter of the pilot bearing was? I'm not sure if the hole in the end of the 3rd gen. hemi crank is the same diameter as it is in your engine.

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: nebo] #33102 04/06/09 05:42 PM 04/06/09 05:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast Buschi340 OP mopar
Buschi340 OP mopar Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast	I made the hole for the shaft in the adapter a bit smaller than the Shaft. It is shrinked on the Shaft. You know what I mean? Diameter... hm, don't have it in my mind yet but can measure tomorrow. Here is the link to the partnumber: pilot bearing

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: nebo] #33103 04/07/09 08:04 AM 04/07/09 08:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX Clair_Davis master
Clair_Davis master Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX	I'm pretty sure that the 3G Hemi crank output end is the same as the other Mopar engines, but I don't have one sitting around to verify. The Maggies and LA's are the same, that's how I found out about the roller pilot brg. Clair 68 Sport Fury Vert (440/727) Getting a heart transplant... 69 Valiant 100 (340/833/EFI)

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion? [Re: Clair_Davis] #33104 04/07/09 08:32 AM 04/07/09 08:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA N nebo member
nebo member N Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA	I guess it is worth just buying the bearing since it isn't that expensive and may come in handy down the road if I don't use it for this project. I have a junked A833 input shaft that I use as a clutch disk alignment tool, maybe I'll cut the end off of that and turn it into the input shaft adapter for the R154. What do you guys think of that idea, perhaps the steel will be too difficult to machine for this application.

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion - speedo adapter [Re: Clair_Davis] #33105 04/08/09 04:07 PM 04/08/09 04:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,168 Vancouver, WA MoparMarq super stock
MoparMarq super stock Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,168 Vancouver, WA	FWIW I changed rear ends on my normally-aspirated Supra to one from a turbo model. The turbo model has 3.73 gears and the R154 trans, the NA model has 4.30 gears and the W58 trans. The speedo gears are not interchangeable as the diameters of the speedo driven gears are different. Since the gear and housing are concentric, as noted before, I had to get an adapter made to change the speedo cable speed so the speedo would read accurately. I imagine any speedo shop could do it, but the place I found was Tacoma Speedometer. The adapter fixed the ratio change and had the correct woodruff-key type input and output. I'm guessing they could make one with the woodruff-key type input and square-drive type Mopar output so that a Mopar cable would screw right on. The adapter was about 3.5 inches long, 3.0 inches wide, and about an inch thick - the size due to internal gearing, obviously. The output was of course offset from the input, but it still fit within the factory Supra tunnel okay. It will probably fit with the back of a home-brewed tunnel too, I imagine. If you need pics, (between work, kids, and the Mopar,) I could probably take a few within a week or so. -Marq

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion - speedo adapter [Re: MoparMarq] #33106 04/10/09 09:59 AM 04/10/09 09:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX Clair_Davis master
Clair_Davis master Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,204 Fort Worth, TX	Quote: If you need pics, (between work, kids, and the Mopar,) I could probably take a few within a week or so. -Marq Marq, A pic would be great - no rush either, I'm in the same boat as you and "spare time" has all but vaporized for me. Obviously this thread has been hanging in there for a while now. Nebo, Cutting down the input shaft might be a way to go. I think there are even some new ones out there (Passon?), so if cost isn't a huge issue, it might be worth starting with a new unit. FWIW, I was going to go a different way than Buschi340 did. I was going to use the Mopar bearing/sleeve unit, but with the sleeve modified to fit the OEM Toyota bearing. Should be a simple enough operation if you've got a machine shop handy to open up the sleeve to the Yota roller bearing size. Clair 68 Sport Fury Vert (440/727) Getting a heart transplant... 69 Valiant 100 (340/833/EFI)

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion - speedo adapter [Re: Clair_Davis] #33107 04/15/09 08:25 AM 04/15/09 08:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast Buschi340 OP mopar
Buschi340 OP mopar Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast	Hi clair, after thousands of miles driven proudly of the conversion the clutch hydraulic makes me worry. It seems that I have either air in the system or it is getting too hot. You know that all parts are made of plastic and are not serviceable. Clair, I'm looking for another setup. Made of steel / aluminium or similar. Don't have to be a Dodge Part. Is Chevy S10 similar? It should be mounted like the unit I have (would be the easiest).... Any idea?

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion - speedo adapter [Re: Buschi340] #33108 04/15/09 01:58 PM 04/15/09 01:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA N nebo member
nebo member N Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 180 Groton, MA	Buschi, I saw a web page where the person replaced the stock mopar slave cylinder with a more rugged metal unit and also added AN fittings and a braided hose, it didn't look too costly. He had the hydraulic setup on a Jeep and kept breaking the plastic slave cylinder when off roading. I will see if I can find the site again and post it if I can find it. Clair, I did some research yesterday on pilot bearing dimensions. The Toyota pilot bearing has an ID of 0.472" an OD of 1.260" and a width of 0.394" Timken PN# 201-CC. The pilot bearing Buschi is using Mopar PN# 53009180 has an ID of 0.7718" an OD of 1.8161" and a width of 0.565" it looks like this is also the same OD as the 3rd gen hemi crank with manual transmission. My crank which came out of a car with an auto transmission (2007 Charger) has a bushing installed with an ID of about 1.308", OD of 1.8161". My options as I see them would be to use the Toyota bearing and install it in the bushing with some shim stock between the bearing and bushing to take up the slop, this may or may not work and has the problem of having the Toyota bearing pretty far into the crank pilot bore. The Toyota pilot shaft is already coming up kind of short as far as how far it will protrude into the pilot bore. This problem is solved with Buschi's approach. The other option is along the lines that you were thinking Clair and remove the bushing that is currently in the Crank to open up the OD to 1.8161" and then finding a bushing that I can machine to the proper ID to accept the Toyota pilot bearing. Ideally the bushing would also have a substatial width to locate the Toyota pilot bearing closer to the R154 input shaft. Clair have you identified a bushing yet for your project and if so could you give me a part number? Thanks everybody for your on going help.

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion - speedo adapter [Re: nebo] #33109 04/15/09 05:10 PM 04/15/09 05:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT M moper I Live Here
moper I Live Here M Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT	Guys, I want to thank you guys for the level of detail on this swap. It motivated me to buy the trans and bellhuosing this afternoon. However, on the flywheel, I looked and the 3.9L is the same aftermarket part number as the 318 trucks from the late 70s and 80s. Now, I believe that earlier truck V8 neutral flywheels also interchange. Does anyone know if that's the case? I would love to be able to use the 143 tooth nuetral flywheel I already have... Again, I admire your tenacity and level of detail... Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion - speedo adapter [Re: nebo] #33110 04/15/09 10:29 PM 04/15/09 10:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 300 MA G Greg55_99 enthusiast
Greg55_99 enthusiast G Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 300 MA	Quote: Buschi, I saw a web page where the person replaced the stock mopar slave cylinder with a more rugged metal unit and also added AN fittings and a braided hose, it didn't look too costly. He had the hydraulic setup on a Jeep and kept breaking the plastic slave cylinder when off roading. I will see if I can find the site again and post it if I can find it. Clair, I did some research yesterday on pilot bearing dimensions. The Toyota pilot bearing has an ID of 0.472" an OD of 1.260" and a width of 0.394" Timken PN# 201-CC. The pilot bearing Buschi is using Mopar PN# 53009180 has an ID of 0.7718" an OD of 1.8161" and a width of 0.565" it looks like this is also the same OD as the 3rd gen hemi crank with manual transmission. My crank which came out of a car with an auto transmission (2007 Charger) has a bushing installed with an ID of about 1.308", OD of 1.8161". My options as I see them would be to use the Toyota bearing and install it in the bushing with some shim stock between the bearing and bushing to take up the slop, this may or may not work and has the problem of having the Toyota bearing pretty far into the crank pilot bore. The Toyota pilot shaft is already coming up kind of short as far as how far it will protrude into the pilot bore. This problem is solved with Buschi's approach. The other option is along the lines that you were thinking Clair and remove the bushing that is currently in the Crank to open up the OD to 1.8161" and then finding a bushing that I can machine to the proper ID to accept the Toyota pilot bearing. Ideally the bushing would also have a substatial width to locate the Toyota pilot bearing closer to the R154 input shaft. Clair have you identified a bushing yet for your project and if so could you give me a part number? Thanks everybody for your on going help. This may be helpful: http://advanceadapters.com/product/2600/%28P/N-716149-NS%29-Pilot-Bushing-.471-ID-X-1.090-OD.html It's a GM to Toyota pilot bushing. It's longer than stock: Greg

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion - speedo adapter [Re: Buschi340] #33111 04/15/09 11:17 PM 04/15/09 11:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 300 MA G Greg55_99 enthusiast
Greg55_99 enthusiast G Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 300 MA	Quote: Hi clair, after thousands of miles driven proudly of the conversion the clutch hydraulic makes me worry. It seems that I have either air in the system or it is getting too hot. You know that all parts are made of plastic and are not serviceable. Clair, I'm looking for another setup. Made of steel / aluminium or similar. Don't have to be a Dodge Part. Is Chevy S10 similar? It should be mounted like the unit I have (would be the easiest).... Any idea? Hey Buschi, Take a look at some of the Mercedes units... http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/replacement_sm/mercedes~clutch_slave_cylinder~replacement.html Maybe you can match yours up with one of those. Greg

Re: 340sb with 5 speed conversion - speedo adapter [Re: nebo] #33112 04/16/09 05:21 AM 04/16/09 05:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast Buschi340 OP mopar
Buschi340 OP mopar Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 468 Germany, Northcoast	Quote: Buschi, I saw a web page where the person replaced the stock mopar slave cylinder with a more rugged metal unit and also added AN fittings and a braided hose, it didn't look too costly. He had the hydraulic setup on a Jeep and kept breaking the plastic slave cylinder when off roading. I will see if I can find the site again and post it if I can find it. that would be great. But it should be designed like the original Assy. See page 7 of this thread. But any other solution is welcome too... Greg, Daimler is a nice idea but I need the whole Assy. Master - hose/line - Slave. Last edited by Buschi340; 04/16/09 08:01 AM.

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