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Roku or Fire Stick ? #3184127
10/15/23 12:05 PM
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Moving to a new place & looking to avoid satellite and cable - you could say I'm reluctantly entering the 21st century.
While I've liked the ease - primarily recording stuff to FF through ads - of satellite & cable, it's $240/mo at the new place.
From what I've read, Roku's more user-friendly than Fire Stick, and Roku doesn't bombard you with their own ads or multiple gates to get where you want like Amazon does.
Apparently, events & shows can be recorded on "the cloud" for later watching, and presumably to FF through the BS.
Nevertheless, thought I'd ask the Moparts braintrust for their experiences & suggestions.

I basically watch racing, NBA games, auctions, historical and a few shows...
ESPN, FS1 & 2, MT, Discovery, History Ch, NBATV, TNT, USA, CNBC, A&E, and FX.
An occasional movie is nice, but the stuff I like is harder to find than the blockbuster/greatest hits stuff.

I'm basically an analog guy if you haven't guessed by now, and a moron when it comes to the modern stuff.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3184147
10/15/23 01:18 PM
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Quote
From what I've read, Roku's more user-friendly than Fire Stick, and Roku doesn't bombard you with their own ads or multiple gates to get where you want like Amazon does.


I have no experience with Roku. But prior to the Firestick I had been using a variety of android boxes over the years. We have two Firesticks and have no problems using them. But keep in mind the content you get will be based on the Apps you have loaded. Some Apps will be very user friendly because you're paying for them - like "Prime" or "Netflix" but if you load something like "Cinema" or "TeaTV" then you're at the mercy of the streamers, your internet provider, etc, etc... As for advertising, the ONLY place I get any advertising is on YouTube. Mind you, we don't use "Prime" very much so I really can't comment on that.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Stanton] #3184150
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I think it depends on what you started with, I have both.
I use Roku for Youtube TV / Amazon Prime / NetFlix / ect..................
GF likes Firestick, so she added it to all my TVs, it supports all the same apps.
Neither really do anything, just an interface to download and use other apps.
Sorta like iPhone or Android, just a matter of preference.

She likes Firestick, I like Roku, they both do the same thing.

Last edited by BDW; 10/15/23 03:03 PM.
Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: BDW] #3184158
10/15/23 01:56 PM
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Bigger question is what kind of internet access do you have there? Other platforms are available.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Moparite] #3184169
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Internet comes from Sparklight, 100Mbps, but I can get 600Mbps or 1 Gig if I want.
Apparently the WiFi box supplies the sorcery for the TV and the PC.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3184194
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purely from a hardware perspective, I prefer the roku ultra size instead of the firestick/roku mini things that plug into the back of the tv.
The reason is that all that hardware heats up during use. The roku boxes have more space to dissipate the heat and should last longer.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Andrewh] #3184199
10/15/23 05:35 PM
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Good point. I don't need a bunch of features, but the heat thing is something I notice on a lot of stuff.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Andrewh] #3184201
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I have two Fire Sticks, the older one was bought July, 2018 for $20 on deal of the day. Still works fine, 5+ years seems more than reasonable.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sniper] #3184206
10/15/23 05:49 PM
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To be clear, I don't care much about the cost, compared to the outlay for cable or satellite - if the magic costs me $80 or whatever, so be it.
Am I OK @ 100 Mbps ? That's 10x what I've had up here in the woods, on an ethernet connection; it buffers a lot.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3184221
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If you actually get 100 mbps...

I just ran a speedtest on my connection, 33 mbps and streaming works fine.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sniper] #3184283
10/15/23 11:13 PM
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Roku


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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: BloFish] #3184295
10/16/23 06:59 AM
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Both have great features and what is easily installed from their own app stores work great. I see Roku as apple products where you can only download apps from their store. Firestick is more like android where you can sideload things. The apps sideloaded may get buffering/ad issues sometimes. I use TeaTV to watch almost anything out there that's not on Netflix or Prime. Pick up one of each and compare them, they are cheap enough when on sale. I have a Roku TV with a Firestick plugged into the HDMI port.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3184300
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not much difference in the two. menus will look different but they are still both ubdersized android boxes. the best would be https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/


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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3184310
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I went looking for a new device because my Blu-Ray aged out of every app except Netflix and I wanted to be able to use my laptop for other things while streaming.

Went to BB and the first guy I talked to responded to "Roku or Firestick?" with "[some other thing whose name I forget]."
To anyone working in retail: This is not helpful.

Second guy I talked to opened a cabinet and handed me a Firestick. I've been using it for several months and I'm pretty happy with it. Sometimes getting back to the main menu for an app is a bit of work, but overall I'm satisfied.


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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sniper] #3184345
10/16/23 10:32 AM
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Roku is the most popular and is what I use. For what you want to watch you will need a live TV package like Sling TV, Hulu Live or YouTube TV. Those are viewing packages the same as cable and satellite but broadcast via the internet. A live TV package this way is cheaper than traditional cable and satellite- but the pricing continually increases. I suggest you get a ROKU device- actually one for each TV and then pay for a live TV package as mentioned above- and maybe an additional service such as Prime or Netflix- whatever your budget allows. Plus there are LOTS of totally free services that are very worthwhile. Free due to the moderate commercial interruptions. Nothing like cable where a 1 hour show is 42 minutes show/18 minutes commercials. A TV antenna is popular too for local news as well as the broadcast stations we grew up watching. BUT- acceptable reception will depend on your distance from the broadcast towers, trees and hills in the line of sight if any. An outdoor antenna is always better than an indoor antenna. I am 44 miles form the towers. I have an outdoor Mohu Sky antenna mounted 10 feet above my roof on the north end gable. I get all 4 networks - ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX. They come in at full signal strength.


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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: 2boltmain] #3184382
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Thanks, guys, appreciate the info.
I went with a Roku Ultra, supposedly the best overall audio/video quality.
Leaning towards Hulu, but I'll deal with that in a couple days, when I'm at my new home.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3184496
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Originally Posted by topside
Thanks, guys, appreciate the info.
I went with a Roku Ultra, supposedly the best overall audio/video quality.
Leaning towards Hulu, but I'll deal with that in a couple days, when I'm at my new home.


keep us posted beer

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: TJP] #3184506
10/17/23 12:45 AM
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I have a question after reading this. Basically, several months ago we dropped TV from Comcast - our monthly bill was over $300.00 - for 3 cable boxes, internet, & one land-line phone (need that for my business). Anyway, since dropping the cable TV, we are 1/2 of what we were - MUCH relief! The ONLY thing I basically watch on live TV is golf - typically starting in January when the tour begins the year. I've been told live TV like this is accessible through Disney or Hulu & had my wife try to find it for me. She could not figure out how to get live golf. *We are using Firesticks BTW. Is it possible to get live sports like this? How?


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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3184538
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Originally Posted by Andrewh
purely from a hardware perspective, I prefer the roku ultra size instead of the firestick/roku mini things that plug into the back of the tv.
The reason is that all that hardware heats up during use. The roku boxes have more space to dissipate the heat and should last longer.

Originally Posted by topside
Good point. I don't need a bunch of features, but the heat thing is something I notice on a lot of stuff.


This is why I recharge my phone on a floor fan every single time. Even during winter.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sunroofcuda] #3184539
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Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
The ONLY thing I basically watch on live TV is golf - typically starting in January when the tour begins the year. I've been told live TV like this is accessible through Disney or Hulu & had my wife try to find it for me. She could not figure out how to get live golf. *We are using Firesticks BTW. Is it possible to get live sports like this? How?


How did you watch it before? Don't say "cable". What channels? If it was the networks you can use an antenna to get the local stations. If it was ESPN or a similar sports channel you can still get those separately.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sniper] #3184562
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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sniper] #3184644
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Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
The ONLY thing I basically watch on live TV is golf - typically starting in January when the tour begins the year. I've been told live TV like this is accessible through Disney or Hulu & had my wife try to find it for me. She could not figure out how to get live golf. *We are using Firesticks BTW. Is it possible to get live sports like this? How?


How did you watch it before? Don't say "cable". What channels? If it was the networks you can use an antenna to get the local stations. If it was ESPN or a similar sports channel you can still get those separately.


Well, either the Golf Channel, or NBC, CBS, or ABC - I don't remember which one. And I realize many channels are still broadcast over the airwaves, but I don't have an antenna (yet).


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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sunroofcuda] #3184712
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Is there a place one can go to see what the on screen menus look like for the various options as well as programs available. My wife does not like change (good for me) and I'd really like to dump Direct. Not into sports. beer

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: TJP] #3184759
10/18/23 10:03 AM
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Go to youtube for videos displaying what live TV streaming menus look like. As far as your wife not liking change- remember the remote control for a ROKU or other streaming device is simple with very few basic buttons. The complete OPPOSITE of a cable TV/Satellite remote with its tiny and far too many buttons. Don't skimp on your wifi router. Sometimes the internet provider provides the modem- if they do not buy yourself a good unit.


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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: 2boltmain] #3184942
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Originally Posted by 2boltmain
Go to youtube for videos displaying what live TV streaming menus look like. As far as your wife not liking change- remember the remote control for a ROKU or other streaming device is simple with very few basic buttons. The complete OPPOSITE of a cable TV/Satellite remote with its tiny and far too many buttons. Don't skimp on your wifi router. Sometimes the internet provider provides the modem- if they do not buy yourself a good unit.

thanks beer

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: TJP] #3185480
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Well, here's the update...so far...
While I can see some magic in this TV streaming deal, we burned a few hours trying to get set up on the various services.
So far, the ease/convenience meter heavily favors satellite/cable.
Setting up accounts was tedious with all the security crap, and places like Sling I can't get into even after setting up.
But this morning I was able to watch F1 Qualifying in Spanish - God only knows how I'm set up for that but not English.

I suppose stuff like this has a learning curve, but flaming hoops are irritating to me.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sunroofcuda] #3185703
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Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
Originally Posted by Sniper
Originally Posted by Sunroofcuda
The ONLY thing I basically watch on live TV is golf - typically starting in January when the tour begins the year. I've been told live TV like this is accessible through Disney or Hulu & had my wife try to find it for me. She could not figure out how to get live golf. *We are using Firesticks BTW. Is it possible to get live sports like this? How?


How did you watch it before? Don't say "cable". What channels? If it was the networks you can use an antenna to get the local stations. If it was ESPN or a similar sports channel you can still get those separately.


Well, either the Golf Channel, or NBC, CBS, or ABC - I don't remember which one. And I realize many channels are still broadcast over the airwaves, but I don't have an antenna (yet).


Grab an antenna. Just did this in the last couple months. $25 antenna and a $30 splitter/amp. Mounted the antenna in the garage ...ran a cable to the basement...mounted the splitter/amp there and connected 4 TVs....works awesome. I'm about 35 miles from the nearest towers. All the networks plus a bunch. I believe 33 channels total. Golf channel you'll need to access elsewhere....maybe they have their own app you can install?

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3185751
10/22/23 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by topside
Well, here's the update...so far...
While I can see some magic in this TV streaming deal, we burned a few hours trying to get set up on the various services.
So far, the ease/convenience meter heavily favors satellite/cable.
Setting up accounts was tedious with all the security crap, and places like Sling I can't get into even after setting up.
But this morning I was able to watch F1 Qualifying in Spanish - God only knows how I'm set up for that but not English.

I suppose stuff like this has a learning curve, but flaming hoops are irritating to me.


When I set up any streaming device new to me or a family member I use my laptop. Much much more user friendly than a phone. When you "Cut the cord" (watching TV thru internet and not $$ cable/satellite) you are no longer funding the stations you didn't watch and the stations you didn't like. Shouting rich housewives with plastic surgery faces and other fake reality shows no longer get their cut of your monthly bill.


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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: 2boltmain] #3185759
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Originally Posted by 2boltmain


When I set up any streaming device new to me or a family member I use my laptop. Much much more user friendly than a phone. When you "Cut the cord" (watching TV thru internet and not $$ cable/satellite) you are no longer funding the stations you didn't watch and the stations you didn't like. Shouting rich housewives with plastic surgery faces and other fake reality shows no longer get their cut of your monthly bill.


Not always true. I have the Paramount app, I also get CBS, Nickelodeon, MTV, BET, Comedy Central and the Smithsonian channel as well with that app. I don't want them, but am paying for them.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sniper] #3185779
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Oh, there's TONS of stuff included that I have no interest in, like "reality" shows and such.

Oddly, the Spanish F1 broadcast turned into English, and thankfully not hosted by the Sky Sports guys, who normally grind on & on about everything but the racing.
Seems the easiest way to watch stuff is to pay the actual league or sanctioning body, rather than a middleman.
But I'll fool around with it and adapt as needed.

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"Not always true. I have the Paramount app, I also get CBS, Nickelodeon, MTV, BET, Comedy Central and the Smithsonian channel as well with that app. I don't want them, but am paying for them."

Yes some channels you don't care for will still get your $$ but they are getting SIGNIFICANTLY less than the cable/satellite package that was the norm for too long. Streaming has really upset traditional cable broadcasts. They had it so good for so long and now its gone. In time streaming packages will probably be more like cable/satellite packages but for now I like seeing stations that I don't want to fund suffer. I hated paying for MTV and all their aired was garbage. Same with TrueTV, TLC and certain cable news organizations.
To anyone undecided about streaming I suggest : Keep your cable TV package but buy a Roku or other streaming plug in device. Set it up and subscribe TO THE VAST FREE CONTENT ONLY. There is ALOT. Watch content thru your streaming device and after a month or so you can make the decision to cancel cable or not. If you want a pay service don't go hog wild and subscribe to multiple services. You'll be right back at a $200 a month TV entertainment obligation. Subscribe to 1 pay service. My dad is 86 and cut his sattelite a year ago. He loves it. He has a paid subscription to YouTube Premium. My Japanese mother watches shows from Japan as well as musicians, entertainers and content creators from Japan. My dad gets his fill of sailboat/sailing videos and older movies and shows as well. Live national news is available free from several non traditional but reliable broadcasters on YouTube and Pluto TV (Pluto is a free service)


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Originally Posted by 2boltmain
Go to youtube for videos displaying what live TV streaming menus look like. As far as your wife not liking change- remember the remote control for a ROKU or other streaming device is simple with very few basic buttons. The complete OPPOSITE of a cable TV/Satellite remote with its tiny and far too many buttons. Don't skimp on your wifi router. Sometimes the internet provider provides the modem- if they do not buy yourself a good unit.


I’m having 3rd new TV delivered today to mom. These new “smart” TVs are a nightmare for seniors. She’s in an assisted living and just wants to turn it on and watch, not navigate through all the app menus. 1st TV was a Roku, remotes have no numbers, everything is through menu navigation. Ok, bought her a Sony, had to get last years model to find a remote with numbers. That worked for a week, staff there set it up, and then the wifi went out and it was a disaster again. I was in the area, 4hr drive 1-way, and set it up, bypassing the WiFi connection, that worked for 2 weeks and then it started asking her to set up Wifi again. I searched and could only find 2 models, 43” size, that DON’T have wifi. 1 of those is being delivered today. This better F’in work.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: BDW] #3188011
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Originally Posted by BDW
Originally Posted by 2boltmain
Go to youtube for videos displaying what live TV streaming menus look like. As far as your wife not liking change- remember the remote control for a ROKU or other streaming device is simple with very few basic buttons. The complete OPPOSITE of a cable TV/Satellite remote with its tiny and far too many buttons. Don't skimp on your wifi router. Sometimes the internet provider provides the modem- if they do not buy yourself a good unit.


I’m having 3rd new TV delivered today to mom. These new “smart” TVs are a nightmare for seniors. She’s in an assisted living


You are right, older seniors need simpler TVs.
Even the older caregivers for the elderly need simpler TVs.

You might try Goodwill stores - the donated TVs are older and they let you return them if hidden features do not work,
but many no longer have remotes because “the dog destroyed the original remote” and that is why it got donated to Goodwill.

Use a universal remote
or remote for Dish/DirecTV/Spectrum TV or AUX button for customizing to an individual TV,
to initially check out the Goodwill TV,
then go to eBay to buy the correct remote.

Turner Classic Movies TCM is a godsend.
DVD recordings of old shows such as
The Lawrence Welk Show/Perry Como/Red Skelton help,
where one DVD can play 4 hours of shows.

If you do this do not be surprised if other elderly start gathering in your Mom’s room to watch the shows.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: 360view] #3188160
11/01/23 09:53 PM
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Non tech person ? again frown
If one already has a "smart TV" that has most of the apps like fubu, hulu, prime, etc. already in it, id there a big advantage to the ROKU or Firestick? Sorry but i am completely clueless on this technology

TIA beer

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: TJP] #3188163
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Originally Posted by TJP
Non tech person ? again frown
If one already has a "smart TV" that has most of the apps like fubu, hulu, prime, etc. already in it, id there a big advantage to the ROKU or Firestick? Sorry but i am completely clueless on this technology

TIA beer


I have a TV that has Netflix built in, it isn't supported anymore, too old for the latest Netflix to work on it.

Cheaper to replace a Firestick than a TV.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: BDW] #3188241
11/02/23 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BDW
Originally Posted by 2boltmain
Go to youtube for videos displaying what live TV streaming menus look like. As far as your wife not liking change- remember the remote control for a ROKU or other streaming device is simple with very few basic buttons. The complete OPPOSITE of a cable TV/Satellite remote with its tiny and far too many buttons. Don't skimp on your wifi router. Sometimes the internet provider provides the modem- if they do not buy yourself a good unit.


I’m having 3rd new TV delivered today to mom. These new “smart” TVs are a nightmare for seniors. She’s in an assisted living and just wants to turn it on and watch, not navigate through all the app menus. 1st TV was a Roku, remotes have no numbers, everything is through menu navigation. Ok, bought her a Sony, had to get last years model to find a remote with numbers. That worked for a week, staff there set it up, and then the wifi went out and it was a disaster again. I was in the area, 4hr drive 1-way, and set it up, bypassing the WiFi connection, that worked for 2 weeks and then it started asking her to set up Wifi again. I searched and could only find 2 models, 43” size, that DON’T have wifi. 1 of those is being delivered today. This better F’in work.


If a residence is close enough to the broadcast towers- an indoor TV antenna would be perfect for a senior citizen. Each channel we grew up watching- ABC,NBC,CBS and then FOX each actually have 3-5 channels within their broadcast. Lots and LOTS of 60s thru 2000s TV shows aired this way. But the home must be somewhat close to the towers and not in a valley- not too many trees, building materials................I am 40 miles from the broadcast towers and when I tried a Mohu Leaf Indoor antenna on the wall beside my TV I did get FOX and ABC in full strength. That alone is like 7 channels. PBS came in strong and some shopping channels and Christian channels. So if your moms location is reasonable- she could have broadcast TV which means simple turn on and watch- just like we all grew up doing.


Keep old mopars alive.
Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: 2boltmain] #3188854
11/05/23 09:22 AM
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An update:
Well, so far, it's been something of a PITA. Trying to get USA or TNT or a couple other channels has been impossible.
I get an activation code to enter on my PC, but none accept my email address, telling me it's incorrect.
I know my damn email address...
Plus, I haven't found any helpful support for addressing this, guess I have to call Roku & blow a day fixing it.

Solved the F1 broadcast problem by going direct with F1, but that's not possible with NBATV or a couple other channels that definitely have their own product.
Satellite or cable is SO much less BS, and easier to hop around/record/whatever, that I'm almost about to spend the money.

Guess I need a teenager to get it straightened out, huh ?

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3188873
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Originally Posted by topside
An update:
Well, so far, it's been something of a PITA. Trying to get USA or TNT or a couple other channels has been impossible.
I get an activation code to enter on my PC, but none accept my email address, telling me it's incorrect.
I know my damn email address...
Plus, I haven't found any helpful support for addressing this, guess I have to call Roku & blow a day fixing it.

Solved the F1 broadcast problem by going direct with F1, but that's not possible with NBATV or a couple other channels that definitely have their own product.
Satellite or cable is SO much less BS, and easier to hop around/record/whatever, that I'm almost about to spend the money.

Guess I need a teenager to get it straightened out, huh ?


I have not experienced the troubles you currently are. When I am subscribing/trying out/becoming a customer to a new to me channel- I prefer to go to their site on my laptop and set up that way instead of doing it on the TV with the Roku/Firestick remote control and my phone. Googling your problems will pull up useful results from others who have experienced the same as you.


Keep old mopars alive.
Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: 2boltmain] #3188887
11/05/23 11:44 AM
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Yeah, they want activation via laptop or PC - I use my PC - but then I get blocked by "incorrect email address". No way I have that wrong.
Haven't found anything on the 'net yet, except "too many cookies". But I'll look again.
Don't know why this has to be such a time suck or tail-chasing exercise - should be something simple.

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: 2boltmain] #3189175
11/06/23 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 2boltmain
Roku is the most popular and is what I use. For what you want to watch you will need a live TV package like Sling TV, Hulu Live or YouTube TV. Those are viewing packages the same as cable and satellite but broadcast via the internet. A live TV package this way is cheaper than traditional cable and satellite- but the pricing continually increases. I suggest you get a ROKU device- actually one for each TV and then pay for a live TV package as mentioned above- and maybe an additional service such as Prime or Netflix- whatever your budget allows. Plus there are LOTS of totally free services that are very worthwhile. Free due to the moderate commercial interruptions. Nothing like cable where a 1 hour show is 42 minutes show/18 minutes commercials.


thumbs Roku is great. Inexpensive and has lots of apps.

https://www.roku.com/

Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: Sniper] #3189314
11/07/23 11:42 AM
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Sniper on 11-01-23 posted: I have a TV that has Netflix built in, it isn't supported anymore, too old for the latest Netflix to work on it.

Cheaper to replace a Firestick than a TV.

I have noticed the TVs with built in Roku- have inferior performance and long term reliability compared to the plug in separate Roku device- even though its suppose to be the same tech in the TV as whats in the HDMI plug in device. I find the "Smart TVs" tend to get laggy, unresponsive and have trouble finding my WiFi. I have a Roku TCL TV that after a year I had to buy a Roku stick and plug it in to get proper function. My TVs Roku system is current with its updates and it still performs POORLY. I realize the only TVs available are Smart Tvs but don't assume that built in streaming system in that TV will give good performance over a several year time span.


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Re: Roku or Fire Stick ? [Re: topside] #3189316
11/07/23 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by topside
Yeah, they want activation via laptop or PC - I use my PC - but then I get blocked by "incorrect email address". No way I have that wrong.
Haven't found anything on the 'net yet, except "too many cookies". But I'll look again.
Don't know why this has to be such a time suck or tail-chasing exercise - should be something simple.


Just thinking out loud here. Do you have the option to set up an email account thru you internet service provider? I have Spectrum. I also have a Spectrum/Charter email account. I don't use it hardly ever as Gmail is what I use. But maybe using the email service provided by your internet provider will pass the security verification as its all about the person attempting to open an account matching up with where the service is to be established- which is the account holders Internet Service Provider address.

Last edited by 2boltmain; 11/07/23 11:52 AM.

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