On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
#3089358
10/26/22 12:50 PM
10/26/22 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,331 Addison Twp, Mi.
RobG
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Addison Twp, Mi.
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My son is in need of a new hot water heater for his home. I am trying to advise him on getting an on-demand system.
He has:
- well water - no soft water conditioning system - elevated calcium in the water[*]propane gas service
Are there any issues now with using this system with well water? What may be the better manufacturer/model to look at purchasing?
Last edited by RobG; 10/26/22 12:51 PM.
I am not rich...but I get off my ass everyday to make sure I am not broke!
Can we get the Mexican cartels to help us with our supply chain issues? They don't seem to have any trouble getting stuff from one place to another.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: RobG]
#3089387
10/26/22 02:25 PM
10/26/22 02:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,633 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,633
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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My son is in need of a new hot water heater for his home. I am trying to advise him on getting an on-demand system.
He has:
- well water - no soft water conditioning system - elevated calcium in the water[*]propane gas service
Are there any issues now with using this system with well water? What may be the better manufacturer/model to look at purchasing?
I can't answer your specific questions but when I was looking into them the general opinions from people that had them was you need two, in series to keep up.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: RobG]
#3089388
10/26/22 02:26 PM
10/26/22 02:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,366 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,366
north of coder
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i looked into this kind of setup when i needed a new hot water heater years ago. at that time, i was advised that for my home use, it was better to buy a conventional water heater because of the cost to payback ratio of the on-demand units just wasn't practical, and there were a couple of other things i didn't think of at the time, but i forget what they were. i don't know if anything has changed over the years, but at the time i needed one, my local plumber advised against it.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: RobG]
#3089422
10/26/22 03:44 PM
10/26/22 03:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439 So Cal
Sinitro
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master
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So Cal
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Many factors to consider... Location of the tank Pipe distance run to the faucets and/or valves When 1st turned on take a short time for the water temp to go up Tank/system can be noisy Overall expense Just my $0.02...
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: DoubleD]
#3089447
10/26/22 05:27 PM
10/26/22 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,163 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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master
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Plymouth, MI
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I can't speak to the well water comment, but the house I bought 2 years ago has one. The main bathroom is on the 2nd floor and the tankless heater is in the basement. It takes about 30 seconds of running the shower before hot water is available, but it does last indefinitely and I haven't had issues when showering simultaneously with laundry or the dishwasher.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: RobG]
#3089448
10/26/22 05:40 PM
10/26/22 05:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,144 Arkansas
340727dart
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master
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Arkansas
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I had a Rinnai tankless unit installed in our house when we built it in 2016. Initially, I was going to get an electric heater but the electrical demand is quite high when it first fires up, so I went with propane. At the time propane was relatively inexpensive, and that's what I went with. The heater is about 40 feet from our master bathroom and it takes a minute or two for the water to get hot enough so I don't suffer any major shrinkage. But, once it gets hot, it stays hot until I'm done with the shower. We're on rural water and it has a lot of calcium in it. So, I back flush the heater every year or so with white vinegar. In fact, that is recommended preventive maintenance for the heater. During the winter we will see single digit outdoor temperatures, but I have never checked the incoming water temperature. But it is quite cold. The heater still takes about the same amount of time to get the water hot as it does in the summer. I wish we had access to natural gas for the heater. There are gas wells all around our house but the neighborhood where we live does not access to gas. What's really frustrating is that there is a gas riser valve about 1000 feet from my house, but that pipeline goes to Memphis. All that being said, I am quite happy with the performance of the water heater.
Your life is not my fault. My life is none of your business.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: 340727dart]
#3089507
10/26/22 08:41 PM
10/26/22 08:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,474 On the run…
BloFish
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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On the run…
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We have a Rinnai with natural gas in our guest house that is 1,000 sq ft. Water is hot in 30 seconds or less and you can’t hear it run. We have city water, so I I have no feedback on well water. We are very happy with it.
It really doesn't matter whether you win or lose… as long as you look good doing it!
‘65 A100 ‘69 ‘Cuda ‘73 Vega GT ‘06 Mega Cab ‘14 Mercedes SLK
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: BloFish]
#3089517
10/26/22 09:20 PM
10/26/22 09:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,707 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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I have an on-demand electric unit in the shop. Hate it. As has been mentioned, they do not produce a fixed outlet water temperature under all conditions, just a temperature rise from inlet to outlet. So if you have a inlet water temperature that fluctuates, you have to size the heater for the coldest inlet. Then there is the flowrate. Unless you get one of the larger ones, the common smaller ones produce about 1 gpm of heated water. Then the maintenance, if you have hard water, buy stock in a vinegar company because you'll be using a lot to descale the heating elements. This is ignoring the current draw that you'll put on your service entrance, for mine if I wanted a good supply of hot water, I'd ended up with 3-40 amp 240 volt breakers.
If I had it all over to do again, I'd gotten one of the conventional small trailer house water heaters and called it good.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: RobG]
#3089560
10/27/22 06:52 AM
10/27/22 06:52 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,404 Central Pa
moparjim79
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pro stock
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Central Pa
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My son is in need of a new hot water heater for his home. I am trying to advise him on getting an on-demand system.
He has:
- well water - no soft water conditioning system - elevated calcium in the water[*]propane gas service
Are there any issues now with using this system with well water? What may be the better manufacturer/model to look at purchasing? I see you're from the north. Is he? Is he married with kids or is there more than just him living in house? How old is his place, and what kind of electric service does he have? My father and I did a significant amount of research when my parents needed a new water heater. The on demand units just could not keep up with them and what they did on a daily ( shower twice, dishes, laundry), we opted for a Rheem heat pump unit. They love it. We were going to put a booster on it as well, but after a month of use, they decided it was not needed. At the time, the price was about $1600. He used the tax time rebates and incentives that were available and it wound up costing him $400 total out the door, with me adding new plumbing as well.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: moparjim79]
#3089569
10/27/22 08:08 AM
10/27/22 08:08 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,331 Addison Twp, Mi.
RobG
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OP
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Addison Twp, Mi.
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He is in Northern Michigan near Kalkaska. He has a 1100 sq. ft home, 2 bathrooms. He is not married....yet. I saw this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsR8n-oknhsit looks like a bit more research on the connectivity elements are needed. But at 5 gpm, that looks like more than enough for this home. The house was built 11 years ago. However the guy that built it was not the best educated builder. I am having to repair all the screw-ups he made. His buddy was the building inspector and I believe he signed off on the final inspection without ever looking at the house.
Last edited by RobG; 10/27/22 08:10 AM.
I am not rich...but I get off my ass everyday to make sure I am not broke!
Can we get the Mexican cartels to help us with our supply chain issues? They don't seem to have any trouble getting stuff from one place to another.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: RobG]
#3089633
10/27/22 12:45 PM
10/27/22 12:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,106 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
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Byron, NY
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I have an Electric On demand that I heat my shop with (radiant floor heat) and have had no issues with it in 10 years. From my investigations, - On Demand water heaters should be sized by demand - making them very efficient (not a one size fits all situation) You can install one large whole house demand but it reduces the benefits and increases the total overall cost. - Often multiple smaller electric units are installed at the point of use (each bath, kitchen) this lessens the lead time for hot water minimizing water waste and allowing for smaller elec circuits per unit . - depending on the mineral make up of your well water it may be an issue with deposits building on the element(s)/exchanger. - My heater has an output water temperature sensor, up to 135degF. My opinion is they are superior to tank type heaters but may require different maint. My system is closed loop and filled with deionized water so build up form impurities is not an issue. I would not try to use one on my well water based on it mineral content (Hardness Is greater than 10gpg, high in calcium content).
Last edited by W.I.N. Racing; 10/27/22 12:46 PM.
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: second 70]
#3089634
10/27/22 12:49 PM
10/27/22 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,883 Northern OH
rapom
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If your area experiences frequent power outages. A tank will supply hot water for a time during the outage. Or all the time if you have a gas.
Last edited by rapom; 10/27/22 12:50 PM. Reason: spelling
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: rapom]
#3089671
10/27/22 02:36 PM
10/27/22 02:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
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If your area experiences frequent power outages. A tank will supply hot water for a time during the outage. Or all the time if you have a gas. A propane/NG heater still requires power to operate, just not much. Some people even use battery backup, I use my home generator.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#3089687
10/27/22 04:33 PM
10/27/22 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,409 UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
NITROUSN
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I Live Here
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If your area experiences frequent power outages. A tank will supply hot water for a time during the outage. Or all the time if you have a gas. A propane/NG heater still requires power to operate, just not much. Some people even use battery backup, I use my home generator. Unless you have a direct vent with no electronics.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: second 70]
#3089746
10/27/22 09:04 PM
10/27/22 09:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,404 Central Pa
moparjim79
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pro stock
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Central Pa
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A new heat pump water heater will pay for itself in about 3 years and most likely can get rebates from both tax and utility. They are the cheapest to run by far.
People lucky enough to live where its hot enough to have them in a garage also gets the benefit of them acting as an AC and it will cool the garage. Yes! The other benefit the parents experienced was much, much longer life out of the dehumidifier they had to run nonstop and empty twice a day. Now the heat pump h20 heater takes the majority of the moisture out of the basement. BUT- as mentioned, it does have a cooling effect on the area its placed in.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: moparjim79]
#3089806
10/28/22 07:19 AM
10/28/22 07:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162 USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
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A new heat pump water heater will pay for itself in about 3 years and most likely can get rebates from both tax and utility. They are the cheapest to run by far.
People lucky enough to live where its hot enough to have them in a garage also gets the benefit of them acting as an AC and it will cool the garage. Yes! The other benefit the parents experienced was much, much longer life out of the dehumidifier they had to run nonstop and empty twice a day. Now the heat pump h20 heater takes the majority of the moisture out of the basement. BUT- as mentioned, it does have a cooling effect on the area its placed in. Interesting discussion. I had not thought that in some homes you can “tweak” the HVAC somewhat. Upper floors of a home tend to be warmer. In some instances a heat pump water heater should be upstairs? ( maybe in an attic? ) When I had an all electric on demand hot water heater around year 2000 I had to let a pencil sized stream of hot water flow in the sink to take a shower without wild fluctuation in shower temperatures.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: billohio]
#3091553
11/04/22 08:10 AM
11/04/22 08:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,844 poplar bluff mo.
toplescuda
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I Whine
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poplar bluff mo.
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They bought one at work. It sucks. The water gets pretty warm. But it never gets so hot you can not hold your hand in it non stop That was set at max. It would never be good for washing dishes. A quick shower maybe. But not for dishes
1970 barracuda convert. 1 of 59 1970 pro street A.A.R. clone (panther pink) 1971 charger 2015 hellcat challenger. Redline red 2014 quad cab 4x4 ram 8 speed hemi
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: toplescuda]
#3091822
11/05/22 12:00 PM
11/05/22 12:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,226 ILLINOIS
volaredon
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top fuel
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ILLINOIS
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I've replaced several tank style water heaters over the years just being the family handyman. Moms house, brother's house, in law's, neighbors, and a few of my own. I've had 2 houses of my own over the years about 30 miles from my relatives and my current one is 6 miles from my 1st. When Ive put them in up north for my relatives (again only 30 miles from my place) they last way beyond the warranty rather easily. . Here I haven't had one last thru the warranty yet. I buy the 12 year ones. Once I got a 9 year ("middle of the road" quality) and it didn't make it to the end of the warranty either. At least the replacements have been free. In both of my houses I came in to find a 30 gallon tank and upgraded to 40 gallon models. All nat gas models. And un both of my houses the units I removed were removed just because they "looked old" weren't leaking yet. I'm sure the one I p put in this house in 98 replaced the original which was from 1967. And I'm on my 3rd water heater. The last one that went lasted about 7-1/2 years. . When that one went, I took my replacement credit (which was alot more than I'd paid for the 1st one I'd put in, that 2nd one was also a free replacement for the 1st one I bought) and put it towards an AO Smith wall mount tankless, since they were on a good sale so I didn't have to add much to make up the difference in price between the current value of a 40 gallon tank and the tankless. My biggest reason for the tankless is that where the water heater was located it is directly in front of the furnace, with not a whole lotta room in between in order to reach the furnace when it needs maintenance. I've had to remove the tank type water heater a couple of times over the years to access the furnace, then Reinstall it. With the tankless off of the ground I have a lot more room to get at the furnace. So far I like the tankless. It's been in place about 2-1/2 years so far and has a 15 year warranty. Hopefully now that we have "city" water that will make a difference in helping this one to last. Though we had the same source of city water at my old house too.we had well water when I moved here.
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Re: On-Demand Water Heaters - Pros and Cons
[Re: volaredon]
#3094150
11/14/22 02:15 PM
11/14/22 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,002 Joplin, Mo
rt66jim
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Joplin, Mo
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I have had one of these https://www.ecosmartus.com/ for about 8-9 years now. It is the 18,000 BTU mdl. 1200 sq ft house , 2 baths. It replaced a 40 gal electric heater. We have lime deposits in our water. I installed 2 sediment filters the the inlet side of the hot water heater and a filter on the outlet side to catch the lime scale deposits. I change the filters every 12-18 months. if you want to be able to use hot water at multiple locations at the same time. I would get the bigger unit 24,000 I think. But this works well for just the wife and myself. As stated it is nice to have unlimited hot water. The is no doubt in my mind that it paid for itself in 3-4 years. My electric bill went down considerably.
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