Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3076370
09/11/22 06:39 PM
09/11/22 06:39 PM
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Mike - Yep, that's the other article I mentioned. It was published originally in Hot Rod, but I also saw it show up in another publication some years later. I don't think I have my original any longer, but you got the details right there.
Look at those pics from Cecil County in that article: everybody is wearing jackets and the trees haven't got any leaves on them. It was still late winter or really early spring when they ran that test and I'm guessing the air was killer that day.
That same car was tested later that year by some other long-forgotten car magazine and they were nowhere near the MPH the SS&DI crew saw on that day at CC. The other tests were done at Suffolk Raceway in SE Virginia, which was also right on the coast and had a number of records set there. But if the SS&DI test was Feb / March and the other magazine was in the summer, that's a major difference in atmospheric conditions. Brad, is this the article you're thinking about? I have the original "back in the day" magazine and article somewhere but this is a "retro" of it done much later but it seems to be for the most part a reprint of the original mag test. Mike
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: A12]
#3076415
09/11/22 10:06 PM
09/11/22 10:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,127 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
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Mike - The one I was thinking of definitely talked about taking it to Suffolk Raceway, but that one above just mentions playing on the streets of NYC with it. Unless there's more to the article than you posted, I don't know if it's the same one. I don't see a magazine name or issue date on the pics to compare, either.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3076435
09/11/22 11:51 PM
09/11/22 11:51 PM
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A12
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The rest of the article Brad, (what's the arrow about? For me when I was trying to figure if that might be an alarm key switch like I had back in '72 on my van I used for mx racing? Figured seeing the car was in NYC and the story of the Ronnie Sox A12 getting the hood, intake and carbs "stolen" thought maybe someone put an alarm on it that were key activate back in the day? The other arrow is for confirming it had a radio, long story. Mike
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3076460
09/12/22 05:58 AM
09/12/22 05:58 AM
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The articles were written in 69, why does the one engine picture in color show the pass side breather and center carb vent used on 70 and later ?
Transman, I think that might be a media department supplied photo as that engine isn't even in a car. It looks like someone installed the valve covers on the wrong sides I have a factory media 8x10 black and white photo for the A12 Road Runner. Here is a scan of it, the original is so sharp you can read the carb number and date code along with the Delco Remy high idle solenoid part number, etc., Mike
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: A12]
#3076466
09/12/22 07:04 AM
09/12/22 07:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,466 Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
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Answering the call of the wild
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Those magazine cars were called long lead press cars. LLPC They were one level up from per-production prototypes. PPP The pre-production prototypes did not have a conventional vin, however some of the long lead press cars could have had vin if it was made from a production car. That did happen when building the "mule". They still build mules today. Driving the interstates of MI around Detroit has produced some interesting pics. Dodge Ramcharger 2 door mule in the 90's headed toward the proving grounds on a open trailer was one. PPP Buick Rivera another - being driven in the rain with 2 suits in the car etc. I knew a driver who hauled mules for GM so i got to see what was in the trailer when our paths crossed on the interstate, and i spent time in the big 3 manufacturing plants and some of their skunk-works facilities. Saturn R&D as well. Typical LLPC did not have a regular vin and were built typically before March for use in the spring by the press. A couple cars over the years that were LLPC's did escape - one valiant and one imperial so far. Magazines had long lead times in those days. Manufacture's plate is like a dealer plate. Those cars did not come with a title....
I know this from correspondence with those famous magazine names in those articles when i went looking for the 1972 440+6 Road Runner Magazine test car
Last edited by ThermoQuad; 09/12/22 07:05 AM.
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: A12]
#3076506
09/12/22 09:59 AM
09/12/22 09:59 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,127 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
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Mike: 1. Yes, that's the article; part of the confusion on my part was they tested at Suffolk County Raceway (NY), not Suffolk Raceway (VA) which closed in the early '90s 2. That magazine article did say it was the same car Ronnie Sox tested, FWIW 3. Yes, those are pics of my old A12 RR... you're killing me! But thanks for the shots, since I don't know where my originals of those are today.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: A12]
#3076524
09/12/22 11:29 AM
09/12/22 11:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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A727Tflite
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The articles were written in 69, why does the one engine picture in color show the pass side breather and center carb vent used on 70 and later ?
Transman, I think that might be a media department supplied photo as that engine isn't even in a car. It looks like someone installed the valve covers on the wrong sides I have a factory media 8x10 black and white photo for the A12 Road Runner. Here is a scan of it, the original is so sharp you can read the carb number and date code along with the Delco Remy high idle solenoid part number, etc., Mike My question is the fact that this article was written in early 1969 - the pass side breather has more than the one nipple that the A12 cars had. Looks like at least a 1970 breather. I never messed with anything passed the A12 car so I am not familiar with the changes to the breathers. Was just wondering how they got their hands on something so far in advance of it’s release. And yes, that is a great shot of the engine.
Last edited by Transman; 09/12/22 11:33 AM.
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3076647
09/12/22 04:43 PM
09/12/22 04:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
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Mike: 1. Yes, that's the article; part of the confusion on my part was they tested at Suffolk County Raceway (NY), not Suffolk Raceway (VA) which closed in the early '90s 2. That magazine article did say it was the same car Ronnie Sox tested, FWIW 3. Yes, those are pics of my old A12 RR... you're killing me! But thanks for the shots, since I don't know where my originals of those are today. Sorry Brad and I did have second thoughts about posting the photos of your A12.....................................but on the other hand I did it for another reason too, check out the banner in the background Mike
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3076671
09/12/22 06:13 PM
09/12/22 06:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
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The articles were written in 69, why does the one engine picture in color show the pass side breather and center carb vent used on 70 and later ?
Transman, I think that might be a media department supplied photo as that engine isn't even in a car. It looks like someone installed the valve covers on the wrong sides I have a factory media 8x10 black and white photo for the A12 Road Runner. Here is a scan of it, the original is so sharp you can read the carb number and date code along with the Delco Remy high idle solenoid part number, etc., Mike My question is the fact that this article was written in early 1969 - the pass side breather has more than the one nipple that the A12 cars had. Looks like at least a 1970 breather. I never messed with anything passed the A12 car so I am not familiar with the changes to the breathers. Was just wondering how they got their hands on something so far in advance of it’s release. And yes, that is a great shot of the engine. Transman knowing what I know from doing EPA and NHTSA (FMVSS) certification, compliance and homologation there is always a minimum of two years of "phase-in" for manufactures to either comply or start to comply with any new federally mandated standard(s). The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards regulation was passed in 1966 so that's why most all of the 1968 "model" year vehicles started to have things like seat belts, collapsible steering columns, the VIN in the corner of the windshield, safety glass, break away inside rear view mirrors, seat back latches, side marker lights and then reflectors and then both a light within a reflector (front amber, rear red and still done to this day that way) . Every safety item was listed on the Monroney/window sticker/label and then as of January 1, 1969 mandatory "head restraints" (head rests). That mandatory head restraint regulation of 01/01/69 phase-in is the reason you will not find a real A12 (SPD 3/29 + 4/26) without head restraints/head rest. So back to the breather with the multiple nipples would most likely be for a '70 and forward EPA emission regulation phase-in (also of two years) and most likely for "EVAP" or evaporative emissions containment when the engine is not running. You'll see the '70 air cleaner snorkels with the vacuum valves, "butterflies" that close when the engine is shut off to contain the carburetor fumes from going out the snorkels or the air cleaner inlets. Another reason for the '70+ Air Grabber hood scoops to shut automatically when the engine was off, and why the '69 lift-off-hood was NEVER going to be used again. EVAP IMO was the reason there was no (official) 3X2 SIX PACK/6BBL for model year '72 because from what I know about the regulation Holley was not going to modify the 2-bbl carbs for a float bowl that would or could be vent to a carbon EVAP canister for only a few models. I was told by a Chrysler engineer that they had hand modified the Holley carbs and got them to meet the EVAP standards, but Holley was not going to make the modifications cheap enough to satisfy the Chrysler bean counters to go into production especially with all of the emission expense BS they had already had to deal with. Bye, bye 3X2 carbs . Hey long winded again, sorry. I dealt with the EPA, NHTSA (DOT) Transport Canada, Environment Canada, Euro TUV and CARB for over 30 years as my job so there is so much that mostly is never seen by the consumers that manufactures have to deal with and deal with two or more years in advance. Mike
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: A727Tflite]
#3076714
09/12/22 08:40 PM
09/12/22 08:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,507 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
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Thanks for the write up Mike. Now Transman check this factory media actual mistake : (hint: it's not the timing spec label that should be on the inner fender near the fender tag that is now on the air filter cover) Mike
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: A12]
#3076716
09/12/22 08:47 PM
09/12/22 08:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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A727Tflite
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You mean the reversed negative ?
This one has the later center bowl too.
And the missing fuel line ?
Last edited by Transman; 09/13/22 09:53 AM.
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Re: 1969 A12 Road Runner Magazine Articles
[Re: shakerjoe]
#3079824
09/23/22 05:31 AM
09/23/22 05:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
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bdgtfb
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Does anyone have any further information on "The Original Hot Rod Road Test " article? I'm trying to purchase the original magazine and need to know the date and year that it was published in. The article was reprinted in Hot Rod Magazine December 1999. Thanks
Last edited by bdgtfb; 09/23/22 05:37 AM.
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