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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: TJP]
#3056042
07/05/22 12:56 AM
07/05/22 12:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489
Minnesota
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What has been proven to work by a skunkworks style team is a windmill mounted on top of a vehicle, hooked to a generator, charging batteries that run the drive motors. As the vehicle moves down the road, the movement through the air spins the windmill, creating more than enough power to run the car. Special, patented, high efficiency blades were required to surpass and defeat the laws of perpetual motion. When the oil company executives found out about it, they bought out the patent, and destroyed all the technology. The inventor and the three top engineers on the project all committed suicide by gunshots to the back on the same night. You'd be proceeding at your own risk, but it could be produced. Some of the engineering data and patent drawings are circulating on the dark web if you know where to look.  
[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum RS23J71 RS27J77 RP23J71 RO23J71 WM21J8A I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do. "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Hemi_Joel]
#3056064
07/05/22 07:45 AM
07/05/22 07:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,869
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,869
Ontario, Canada
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hydraulic power steering unit and a hydroboost brake unit. Keep in mind that both of these would add a tremendous amount of weight over the current electric power brakes and steering - not to mention the power loss of driving them. I'm pretty certain they consume less electrical energy than would be needed to run hydraulic units. Keep in mind also thatunless the motor is turning, these would have no power whereas the electric units do.
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3056190
07/05/22 11:33 AM
07/05/22 11:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
HemiSportFury
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 528
SW CO
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[i][/i]The only thing that needs to be done is to change the laws of physics.
Get congress to change the first and second law of thermodynamics and you're all set. It should not be too hard to find some congress men or women to sponsor that bill. They just haven't thought of it yet.
Last edited by HemiSportFury; 07/05/22 11:36 AM.
'64 Sport Fury, 528 Hemi, FiTech EFI, 4-speed, 4.10 Dana 60
'57 Belvedere 2dr sedan, current project in process
'19 Cherokee Trail Hawk Elite
'03 Ram 2500 CTD HO, 6-speed 214,000 miles and still going strong
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: HemiSportFury]
#3056241
07/05/22 12:54 PM
07/05/22 12:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 947
Central Michigan
nuthinbutmopar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 947
Central Michigan
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Get congress to change the first and second law of thermodynamics and you're all set. It should not be too hard to find some congress men or women to sponsor that bill. They just haven't thought of it yet. That's right up there with the move to outlaw dihydrogen-monoxide. The number of people it kills every year (in any of the three states of matter, it can be deadly) is staggering, yet nobody will lift a finger to regulate this chemical compound.
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3056280
07/05/22 01:45 PM
07/05/22 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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What I picture in my head is a generator with a small engine built into the trunk that could put out just enough to run the electric motors and propel the car by it'self at say 55 mph on it's own like a "limp in mode" but could charge the batteries at anything less sort of like how a diesel electric train works but with batteries. It would probably work with about a 15hp honda generator in a tesla with it's superior aromatics. It could run on regular gasoline in a pinch but could also have the batteries charged via plug in when you are sleeping, eating or at work.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: That AMC Guy]
#3056289
07/05/22 01:57 PM
07/05/22 01:57 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,238
nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,238
nowhere
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Why don't race cars have alternators? It's not because they don't have headlights! It's because that little chargin' whirler saps up an easy 5hp. The bigger the alternator, the more hp it takes away!
An alternator isn't an on/off device, properly setup it only puts out enough to maintain system voltage. If the load only calls for 20A of charging current then that is all any alternator will put out 40A or 200A. There is an argument to be made that having a stable system voltage provides for a more consistent ignition system and a more consistent run. It would be more accurate to say the more load there is the more hp it takes to turn the alternator. That said, the reason drag racers don't run an alternator is more for weight savings. As little as they stress the battery between rounds is what allows them to get away with it. You'll note they charge the battery between each round, or damned well better. That is the only application I can think of that allows for running without an alternator.
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Sniper]
#3056291
07/05/22 02:02 PM
07/05/22 02:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
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Why don't race cars have alternators? It's not because they don't have headlights! It's because that little chargin' whirler saps up an easy 5hp. The bigger the alternator, the more hp it takes away!
An alternator isn't an on/off device, properly setup it only puts out enough to maintain system voltage. If the load only calls for 20A of charging current then that is all any alternator will put out 40A or 200A. There is an argument to be made that having a stable system voltage provides for a more consistent ignition system and a more consistent run. It would be more accurate to say the more load there is the more hp it takes to turn the alternator. That said, the reason drag racers don't run an alternator is more for weight savings. As little as they stress the battery between rounds is what allows them to get away with it. You'll note they charge the battery between each round, or damned well better. That is the only application I can think of that allows for running without an alternator. Many just use an alternator cut off switch, which allows it to freewheel during the run, Probably a 1 hp drag instead of 5, course you’re still carrying the weight.
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: TJP]
#3056442
07/05/22 07:37 PM
07/05/22 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,536
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
OP
Rhinotruck
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OP
Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,536
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Electricity is a funny demon. But like the old saying goes: "There's no such thing as a free lunch." Power (or "energy") is ALWAYS lost through friction, heat, resistance, etc.
You'll never get MORE out of what you put in.
A fun experiment is to get a cheapy little 40-amp alternator. Hook it up to a battery source and a regulator and now YOU try to turn that alternator. You might be able to; but not sustainably enough to be useful.
Now, get a 200-amp alternator from a big truck and do the same thing. A small team of dogs wouldn't be able to turn it. You would need the mass of something; like a car - to be able to turn that sucker.
Lots of the electric things have regenerative braking - and this is a wonderful thing. But you can't have it ON all the time - the drag would be immense and you'd be wasting 10x more energy trying to get something out of it.
Why don't race cars have alternators? It's not because they don't have headlights! It's because that little chargin' whirler saps up an easy 5hp. The bigger the alternator, the more hp it takes away!
Personally, I think we should be looking more into Hybrid/Turbine technology. A small Turbine powerplant that has three states: OFF, idle or RUN and therefore can be tuned to run as cleanly as possible. It's only job is to turn a generator that can power an electric motor and maybe a small, backup battery. A multi-fuel Turbine would not only be able to run off of ANY combustible fuel, it can be tuned to run as cleanly or cleaner than any current internal combustion engine; but it's maintenance now drops to ZERO and moving parts/failure rate plummets. Win-Win for the consumer; not so much for the manufacturer.
But I also think we've gotten away from simple reliability. I firmly believe ALL electric cars should have a simple, planetary transmission. Why? Very Simple. A "classic" three-speed or even 2-speed transmission would:
Provide a "PARKing" position that everybody and their dog is used to.
A much simpler reverse function - rather than reversing the electric motor (which requires big, heavy circuit breakers and relays) - just do it hydraulically.
A NEUTRAL position for pushing/towing that not all electrics have!!
Drive for every day driving.
Gear reduction should such an idea be necessary.
But, the other great thing about a simple transmission would be it's fluid pump. I don't think it would be much parasitic loss to have that same pump power a hydraulic power steering unit and a hydroboost brake unit. We could also plumb a heater matrix into the fluid system because the fluid will get warm. Why not dissipate that heat through the cabin rather than have 39 separate electric systems doing all these jobs.
I really think the designers of today believe themselves to be much smarter than they actually are. None of them have ever heard of the phrase "Putting the cart before the horse." They've no idea what a cart nor a horse is.  but think of all those battery companies and lithium mines  THIS, the old money thing again, Great post by AMC, I knew there were plenty of ideas out there, and plenty more to come, the paradigm shift HAS to happen and happen soon! Luckily will be long dead by the time this is all figured out, the only problem is what is going to be found out in the next 5-10 years when the realization finally hits the idiots in charge (pun intended) that pure electric vehicle power IS NOT POSSIBLE with the technology available, setting arbitrary goals is just asssssinine... 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 07/05/22 07:37 PM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: ekim]
#3056466
07/05/22 09:00 PM
07/05/22 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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A 427 with 3.55 gears can easily send that much TQ to the wheels and go twice as far on a fill up.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Stanton]
#3056495
07/05/22 11:41 PM
07/05/22 11:41 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,795
Castlegar, BC, Canada
That AMC Guy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,795
Castlegar, BC, Canada
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hydraulic power steering unit and a hydroboost brake unit. Keep in mind that both of these would add a tremendous amount of weight over the current electric power brakes and steering - not to mention the power loss of driving them. I'm pretty certain they consume less electrical energy than would be needed to run hydraulic units. Keep in mind also that unless the motor is turning, these would have no power whereas the electric units do. Hydroboost brakes for small cars are tiny. Recall the system that some Fox Body Mustangs had. Not very heavy, doesn't require a whole lot of space and I'm sure some egghead tasked with improving the design should be able to. And yes, when the vehicle ISN'T moving, there would have to be some sort of backup pump to send enough fluid to the steering & brake unit and keep flow going with the heater circuit. No, my idea is not perfect but at least I'm trying to solve a problem with proven methods rather than creating a bunch of band-aids that create MORE problems. But yes, I would like to sit down with somebody with more brains than I to calculate how much energy would be necessary to power a small power steering rack and a small hydroboost brake unit. I can't imagine it would be much more than an Automatic transmission pump already makes. There's always got to be some give and take. My system gives the vehicle a central, hydraulic system whereas currently; cars have 100 or more separate electric systems all trying to accomplish the same thing. There's got to be a balance somewhere.
Bloody Mary, Full of Vodka, Blessed art thou among cocktails....
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3056531
07/06/22 06:40 AM
07/06/22 06:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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https://ionpowergroup.com/how-it-works-on-earth/Most have heard about Ben Franklin (and son) flying a kite in stormy weather and seeing a spark jump from a key attached to the kite string to ground. If you do not want to recharge your battery from either: electric company source local internal combustion engine generator steam engine generator solar cell wind mill hydroelectric dam tidal flow generator it is also possible to generate some electric power simply by having a long wire with one end up high, and the other end low and connected to ground. Current will flow, and you can pass this current through a battery or motor. Hint: current kinda low in typical weather unless one wire end very high up. This also works in space, and you may have heard about the “tether experiment” that sadly could not unspool its extremely long wire.
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#3056602
07/06/22 11:23 AM
07/06/22 11:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,711
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,711
North Dakota
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And here I thought this was going to be something like what an iRobot Roomba does; remember where its charging station is, heads for it and plugs itself in.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: moparx]
#3056908
07/06/22 09:41 PM
07/06/22 09:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,593
USA
VS29H0B
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,593
USA
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Concerning adding range extenders to an EV --- GM did that with the early Chevy Volts, The EV was re-charged by a non driveline connected ICE engine. In effect the Volt had substantial range. GM discontinued the Volt because of cost added by the ICE range extender. This extender was not connected to the drive wheels - it was simply a basic generator.
Like the women I have dated --- Always looking for a better deal ....
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Re: Why can't an electric vehicle charge itself?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#3056964
07/07/22 12:55 AM
07/07/22 12:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,018
Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,018
Oregon
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I know I am just an old mechanical designer who knows close to nothing about electricity but why can't an electric vehicle charge itself? Gen sets can charge batteries, which most are just diesel engines turning a generator that produces electricity, seems as simple to me as hooking a generator to the rotating mass that the electric motors run? Is it that there is just no profit in it? Discuss... They will as long as you are going down hill. I read about a guy who lived up a fairly big hill and he was having trouble with his EV since he fully charged it at night. Then the next day as he drove to work the car would overcharge itself and cause problems with the battery. He finally figured out that he only needed to charge it to 75% capacity and then it was okay heading down the hill in the morning. My wife's mother lived up the hill from where we lived. First time my wife drove the Leaf over to her mom's house she was worried about the battery life. But by the time she got back home most of the charge had recovered. Going up hill in an EV really drains them but you get a lot of it back when you go down the other side.
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