Coming to point where we have to rollover some non IRA type investments. We're not much on the gambling side not am I knowledgeable in this area. A few people I have spoken with are pushing annuities with a fixed rate or indexed
The indexed is a 10+ year deal with a guarantee on the principal only but has shown substantially higher return's.
the fixed rate is a guaranteed return and can be had for a much shorter period 3-5 years at ~ 3% which isn't much but way better than banks, C/d's etc.
With the economy in a flux I'm hesittant to lock it down for much more that 3 years but that could be the wrong move as well ?

Any thoughts / wisdom out there ?
TIA
Tim

Annuities are held in very low esteem by the finance pros I've spoken with.
I put some $$ in one - Guggenheim - a few years ago after a really attractive high-return sales pitch.
Not only has it not performed all that well, the customer service from that outfit is the worst I've seen from any business.
I'm going to either roll it into my Fidelity account, or cash out & take the initial beating, then buy an appreciating hard asset with that money.
FWIW, financial advisors in my area aren't interested in anyone with under $100K to play with.
Given the current economic & geopolitical situation, folks I know with money are buying hard assets like cars & property.

Too complex of a subject to answer on a forum since you really need to understand the context of the decision. For example, if you have any high priced debt such as credit cards then pay those off before investing. If not high interest debt then perhaps think about paying off low interest debt such a mortgage. If zero debt then you look at retirement assets vs retirement requirements and then you look at the portfolio of retirement assets. Social Security is an inflation protected annuity so most people don't need more annuities but it all depends.

I just found out about an interesting safe investment.
I-bonds are treasury bonds based on the inflation rate.
right now they are at 7 percent, in may they change to over 9 percent.
if you buy before may you get 7 percent for 6 months, then in 6 months they go to 9 percent for 6 months.
there are a few catches.
that interest rate changes every 6 months. but it doesn't change for you till after your 6 months are up.
you can't withdraw it for a year. And if you do it before 5 years you lose 3 months of interest.

you can only put 10k per person and 5k of your tax return in.
but if you have that kind of change lying around not doing any work for you, and you are very risk adverse, this is the way to go.
otherwise I found, unless I am willing to take some serious risks, I make more just putting it into the s&p 500 index funds.

Thank you all for the reply's especially Andrew which has my head spinning but very interesting information. I do wish there was just a way to say here's 25 -100K, tell me what to do with it to get the most return with the least risk
Anyone else ??? Thanks again

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/092215/top-5-tips-etfs.asp#:~:text=Exchange%2Dtraded%20funds%20(ETFs)%20that%20invest%20in%20TIPS%20and,purchasing%20power%20due%20to%20inflation.

Exchange-traded funds (ETFs) that invest in U.S. Treasury inflation-protected securities (TIPS) present a convenient way for investors to gain exposure to these government-guaranteed fixed-income instruments. TIPS are Treasury securities indexed to inflation, meaning that when inflation rises, so does the principal amount of the security and the associated interest payments.

Like AndyF said it is a bit more complex than that.
how soon do you need the money if ever.
how much risk are you willing to take?
how well adjusted are you to the fact that the stock market goes down a lot sometimes, but it eventually comes back.
can you sit on a -75 percent loss and wait it out or do you have to jump ship.

I have been investing a long time. lost big, and won big, to learn some very painful lessons.
I try to follow my rules, but even I get lost in the moment sometimes.
but you really have to be aware this is a long game, not overnight thing.
some people get lucky, the guy that won big on gamestop.
the people that got into crypto early and some of the ipos that hit big.
for the rest of us, we just try to creep along, to get where we need to be.

I gamble with my retirement money. no mincing words about it.
But I don't gamble big.
I bet on a few things that returned over 140000 percent. I didn't miss any decimals. 10 bucks into 14k. but note I only bet 10 bucks.
some things like google, apple and Ferrari did 400 percent gains. but again I only bet like 2 to 5k
I even did gamestop and doubled my money.

because of that I don't get huge jumps. I am trying to find a better balance vs the time I take now.
The index funds for the s&p 500 do quite well. averaging 6 to 8 percent at any given point. right now they are in a bit of a slump. and depending on how the war goes, it could go down further.
but generally speaking in any 5 year period it is up from the start.of that period.
it is the set it and forget it of funds.

but that ibond is a sure thing, and I don't mind betting what I can on stuff like that.

ibonds and cd's are for rainy day funds. stuff I don't need right now and hopefully for the foreseeable future. but I can get out if I need to.
Roth ira's are for rainy day funds too, but the interest is free.

There is a guy who calls himself Stan the Annuity man who has a lot of online resources to learn about annuities.

https://www.stantheannuityman.com/annuity-scams-beware-of-perfect-answers

As previously mentioned, annuities are not very well regarded by financial experts. A lot of smoke and mirrors, and snake oil in their marketing. Salesmen get high commissions and bonuses for selling them, including perks like cruises. Somebody’s coming out ahead with these and it’s probably not the customer!
This is too bad, as the idea of exchanging money for a guaranteed income stream is appealing, that is what a pension is after all.
I’m am working with a financial planner to get myself ready for retirement, this winter at age 60 is my plan now. I’ve been investing since college and reading financial articles and literature for 40 years, so consider myself pretty financially savvy. What I’m finding from working with the advisor is that I’m pretty ignorant about taxes. Saving a lot during one’s working life is only part of the battle, tax strategy is the other. Taking distributions from your 401K and IRA can kick your butt tax wise, not just taxes on the distributions but on your social security. No one tells you that during your working career when employers and “experts” tell you to save as much as possible in your 401K.
A YouTube financial advisor I like is Josh at Heritage Wealth Planners. He’s a no BS type guy with interesting viewpoints.

Depends on how much and the key you mention is low/no risk.

Only a few things to do with that particular requirement.

The amount makes a big difference. I like to buy stock and write calls against it. If it goes up, great, goes down the calls cover some of the drawdown.

Only thing risk free is buying US treasuries which suck for return and will get killed by inflation.

Annuities = Barf... Salesman get a huge front end commission and the returns are crap. When the market goes up 25% and you get your 6-7%... not so great. Even the downside in some is not limited.

The best return with no risk is to pay off debt. If you have zero debt (house, cars, credit cards all paid for) then the next safest place to invest 25 to 100K would be some sort of bond fund. An I bond fund or a T bond fund. But investing in bonds right now is going to suck since you'll lose money every time the Fed raises rates and they'll be raising rates for the next year or two. So you'll really get sick of opening up the mail and seeing your bond funds getting killed.

Stock market right now is a crap shoot. Lots of really weird stuff going around the world and nobody can figure out where the market is going. Not really a lot of reason for the market to go up right now and a lot of reasons for it to go down. Good chance of a recession within the next year given the odds that the Fed is going to be raising rates a fair amount.

If you don't have any debts then nothing wrong with sitting on your cash at the moment. If you really feel like you need to be invested then put a little into an S&P index fund and a little into an I bond fund and let it ride. If you want to get bold then you could make a targeted bet on who is going to win from inflation. There are some businesses that do really well during inflation so do some research and invest in that target group.

There are no I bond funds. They aren’t sold on the secondary market so you can only buy and sell them through the Feds.
TIPs can be bought in the secondary market through mutual funds and ETFs. Sadly they end up being like any other bonds when in funds and are getting beaten up this year with interest rates going up.

My experience as well.

True, but there are bond funds designed to mimic stuff that you can't buy. The various inflation proof bond funds did great when interest rates were dropping but now that real inflation is here (and interest rates are going up) the inflation proof bond funds are dropping. There is no "safe" investment that protects from inflation and raising interest rates at the same time. Some sort of commodity play can make money but those aren't considered to be "safe". Real estate might work out okay or gold, but those all have risks too. REITs are fairly safe when the economy is good, but raising interest rates and a looming recession are bad news.

kind of the timeshares of the investment world. “I have an annuity but I need cash now”

Not a fan of bond funds.

if you want safe, buy the actual bonds you want, hold to maturity and don't sweat the price fluctuations/movement in between.

while I agree paying your debts is a "sure" thing, I disagree on doing it.
I hate to be cash poor but asset rich.
if you are buying now it is a problem, but when interest rates were 3 percent and under, I would rather invest the cash than pay off a debt.
It is a risk but I would rather make 3 percent over the 3 percent I owe.
or if a great need for cash arises I have it on hand instead of not owing on my home or car.

I really appreciate all the feedback / comments. This is not money that we anticipate needing anytime soon and is actually there more to make sure the wife is Ok should something happen to me. It is at this time 100% tax free and we have ZERO debt. There are additional accounts if immediate $$ are needed.

The comments regarding the current state of the economy/ interest rates, political issues are what is concerning me. With c/d's and savings paying .05% at best, that's a may as well put it in a mason jar. The annuities came about as I am not financially savvy and there are a few 3 year plans paying 3% which obviously is way more attractive than .5%. My thought was hopefully in 3 years things will have settled down a bit and there may be better choices /options.
I'm not overly familiar with the bonds but if my understanding is correct they sound more appealing than the annuity. I did a little looking and saw that some are limited to 10 k per person per year but it's possible I wasn't looking in the right place
My accountant said put it in vanguard but the potential for loss is a bit unnerving
So with the above added information is there additional input on what might be best ?
Thank you again all for your inputs

anyone who is telling you they know what the future holds is playing with their... and your pudd...

If it is in an IRA based account now, DO NOT withdraw the money even if to send it to a different institution. Let the financial houses do the transfer to a new IRA/retirement based account. Is taking possession allowed to transfer yes, can you get hammered if something happens, yes.

Look at places like Schwab or other full service brokers. You can buy bonds through Schwab online for something like Free to $1 per bond.

I agree, nobody knows where any of the markets are headed. Other than historically, the drift is up, there are periods where it has taken a long time to recover from a drawdown.

I'm not a mutual fund fan. Most don't outperform the index they are compared to over the long term. You pay someone to underperform? Yeah makes sense.

I suggest you go to the Fidelity website and do some reading. Some research requires you to have an account, but you can create one without having any money there. They also have investment managers that you can call if you need/want assistance. There are likely other investment sites you can use, but I use Fidelity so it's the only one that I'm familiar with. ....and you're right. Your money should be earning you more than what your savings account is paying.

We have an annuity that provides about $25K a year that we use just for taxes. And so far the value of the annuity continues to increase. As to other investments, it depends on what risk you are willing to accept and what return you want. When we sat down with our financial advisor I told him that we wanted investments that paid dividends and were in fields people couldn't live without. So we are invested in energy, pharmaceuticals, paper products, and healthcare stocks which gives us about 4%. We do have some other investments but the stocks are the major portion. The market can swing all over the place and those dividends just keep rolling in. Admittedly this is a zero-risk, low return scenario but that's what we like.

If you can buy real estate it's very difficult to go wrong. Buy and rent. It does take a bit of managing which is work but you have a steady monthly income that keeps up with inflation and is in demand. Interest rates are starting to rise so cash buyers are extra attractive to sellers. I guess you are looking to roll your money as to not take a tax hit?

I don't know how much you have to invest but the real estate market is starting to relax a little and again with interest rates starting to rise a bit it's a good time to keep your eyes open for a good buy. Rentals are still hot. There are certain things you will need to do to protect yourself with renters and there are no guarantees but you can reduce your risks with credit check, references, deposits, and a well written lease.

I'm speaking from experience.

I wasn't aware of it, but I must be a finance pro myself.



I tend to agree with Andrewh, I've also been eyeing those "I" bonds.

zero risk.... there is no such animal...

Monday April 18 Wall Street Journal has an unusually comprehensive article about I Bonds on page A13.

I had read about them several times before, but this article had at least 3 “tricks” I was ignorant of.

Diversify.

Learn about the widely misunderstood
“regression to the mean”
scientific principle that was first proven in genetics,
and was surprisingly proven in investments by Vanguard founder “Jack Bogle”, a college friend of my father.

Okay, "low risk".

I know nothing about renting out.

Too many variables of countless things that could go wrong.

Then again, maybe I watch too many landlord/tenant disputes on Judge Judy to count?

I do know there’s money to be made there, IF one is very educated and experienced in such things.

That being said, how to protect against the great unpredictables?

Case in point, SO many landlords got seriously goosed on the COVID federal mandate prohibiting evictions.

Back to the OP’s topic, lots of good info already posted.

Best I can offer without more OP specifics is: Pay off all interest bearing debt, have a 8 to 12 month rainy day, easy accessible account.

Then, off to investing. A low cost S & P index fund is an excellent choice. If you are talking serious money, you may want to “dollar cost average” your way in. Fidelity FSKAX is an excellent choice.

Beyond that, a lot has been mentioned about global insecurity across multiple fronts. So very true.

My only advise is DIVERSIFY as much as possible.

My own investments are pretty much across the financial spectrum.

If I say I’m tilted in favor of anything in particular, it’s the defense sector (FSDAX), utilities (primarily AEE and NÉE). Telecom (T and recently spun off WBD… mainly as dividend holds), QCLN (a renewable energy play which has not done me well since purchase, but I still have long term hopes).

All my other stuff is scattered all over, one broker managed (an inheritance), the rest self managed. I’d say 50/50. Stocks, bonds, mutual funds, ETF’s, cash, etc.

On the other end of the spectrum.. I hold a fair amount in (gasp!) laddered CD’s. Hard silver and gold, and even old EE US Savings Bonds.

I often explain to wifey how even simple cash can burn you. Hello Inflation? 1940’s Germany anyone?

People often ask my financial advise. Like another poster said earlier..: I hold no formal financial title, but have read and learned a ton. Many thanks to my now deceased father, a career CPA and self investor.

I no longer give specific advise in these complicated times. Other than DIVERSIFY, DIVERSIFY, DIVERSIFY!

It’s all I know to do right now…

A lot depends on you age. My first thought would be to put it in a Roth IRA. That way every penny you make on the investment will be tax free and you can invest it anyway you like. Can't withdraw until 591/2 or add to after 701/2. No RMD and doesn't add to medicare income limit.

to answer a few questions I'm 68 an the amounts involved is outside IRA guidelines no that i would likely go tere at this time anyway.
Zero debt
Don't want the hassle of renting, but it is attractive but NO way Jose, I've had enough BS in the last 20+ years with employees to last the rest on my life.
there's enough liquidity to go quite some time unless something totally goes astray.

thanks you all for your inputs. they have been VERY helpful. I have to find the time to do some additional reading Time is in short supply right ow
Any additional input is welcomed and Thanks again

The people that are recommending indexed annuities are probably the people selling them, since those are the people that benefit the most from them.

anytime u want something 'guaranteed' , u will pay for it... nobody will guar anything for free...

I understand if you don't want to deal with rental/rentals. You can have someone manage properties for you to lessen your hassle and cover your needs and lower your risks. But again, I do understand not wanting this responsibility.

They are very hot now as I've mentioned though, and you can turn down the higher risks and while yes every investment has issues, real estate has proven to be one that is low risk/high return for many, many decades.

Rental property is quite different between Commercial & Residential.
A buddy of mine has done very well with Comm, regardless of the economy, for the past 40+ years including currently.
It does require due diligence in checking the property's history (EPA) and whether a city/county/state actually owns or has some land rights or encumbrances.
Res is more problematic with renter's rights, and for me, being a "control enthusiast", it was frustrating when a tenant didn't take care of the property as I did.
It was more frustrating because I'd moved to CA and the Res property was in HI; couldn't exactly stop by. I had a good deal with a manager but in the end made no money, partly due to a market value drop, when I decided to sell.
My buddy's been stung on a Res rental, but has made a LOT on Comm, with very few problems.
His son has also done very well leasing & subletting Comm properties.

interesting... i remember back in jan 2009 at the wynn in vegas having dinner with a friend of a friend from denver who came to vegas to try and collect some back rent from his comm. rentals...
when u think u outsmarted the man, is when u r in trobu;e

I got into residential real estate because of my dad. He invested mostly in residential for 40 years and made a good living with it and convinced me to save and put money there. Yes there are renter's rights and the necessity of eviction in cases, but overall I've done very well by following good advise I mentioned. Requiring renter paid for credit checks, references, good deposits, well written leases, and picking my tenants carefully. You have to deal with some difficult situations but that's what the monthly income is offsetting. I won't put my cash anywhere else, especially in this terrible economy. The percentage of return is far greater than anything I have researched or experienced.

And I knew a guy who bought stock and......and I knew a guy who had an annuity and.....and I had an Uncle that put everything in an IRA and ran out money.....

You have to have a large sample size to put credibility into any stories.

Good question... 2 year t-bills at 2.4-2.5%. Maybe that gets you by until interest goes up. I do good stocks that have paid dividends for 40-50 years and never missed, and supply stuff people need, food, fuel, drugs stuff like that, but I am a little younger. Problem is prices are high. Rentals suck unless you live right next door like I do, even then fk sometimes. Nothing is risk free but ponder this, there is about 18 trillion in savings, backed by the fdic, if one mega bank like Wells Fargo, or Bank America goes under it nearly wipes out the fdic fund....so are cds or banks safe, or does the sign just make us feel good. I am in the same boat, no debt ever, lots to invest, but not enough time to remake it if I lose it. Being the tail end of the boomer generation really sucks for retirement. My small business is the gold for me, zero debt, until I can't run it anymore.

That's fine if you are willing to take the current period tax hit on converting from traditional to a ROTH. It's not just float 100% to a ROTH and now it becomes tax free on witrhdrawl.

Is it in an IRA or tax deferred pre-income tax plan now? If it is, there should be no real restriction on moving to self directed IRA. Not know what the actual investment vehicle is, same as another comment I saw early...

I'm in California, what's wrong with my truck transmission?

Way too much missing info to make any kind of suggestion. You mentioned it was in an IRA, then say it is above IRA limits. If already in an IRA, the limits that are allowed for contributions don't apply because it's a transfer.

Short the RV stocks (already down 40%) or any toy stock for that matter. Lazy? Just buy bitcoin and wait.

really??? - check out what macy's owed to their various landlords... it was 10's of millions of $$$ during the pandemic... n no doubt there was many/many owners, not getting paid their rent... when u think u have it figured out... the man appears...

No, it is not in or from an IRA, the $$ are taxed money from a CD that was about to roll over. I closed it out and have the funds sitting in an account trying to figure out where to put them for the next 3-5 years.
Hoping by then things will have stabilized a bit more. The confusion may have come in when I mentioned there were other accounts. but I am not concerned with those at this time BTW the amount? 100k+/ - And to reiterate we are not gamblers when it comes to investing.

You can put $20 k max in I bonds a year the other $80 hard to say.

That cleared it up a lot with the source of funds.

Non IRA and out of rolled CD's you should have been reporting interest income during the CD life. Nothing to worry about from that angle

Risk free means treasury bills or similar.

Nothing to do other than an approach on what you decide.

There are a lot of things you can do with 100K to get a better return with low risk. 3% on that is $250/month.

until it doesn't ... when the man changes the rules...

If your T bills are paying 2% and inflation is 10% you are losing 8% a year. And that doesn't even take into account taxes. So T bills are not risk free.

That's not from the investment standpoint of other investment vehicles. Risk free only means principal you put in 100K is what you get out, 100K, sans all other factors. Or risk free "rate of return"

Yes you are losing out on the inflation front.

That's where I bills come in to play. The problem is you're limited to $10K per person a year. You can do an additional $5,000 If it comes directly out of your tax return. Current interest rate is 0 plus the CPI twice a year. Current guess for May is over 9% which is 4.5 per 6 months. If you were lucky enough to have bought a few years ago the fixed rate was 3 and you would get 12%. If inflation goes to 0 you get 0 never negative. So if a CPI is 1 it works out to 2%. Must keep a year for full rate and if sold under 5 years you lose 3 months.

never heard of an i-bill.... who is the guarantor ??

An I bond is sold by the treasury. They aren't sold on the secondary market so you can only buy and sell them through the treasury.
And the annual amount of I bonds an individual can buy is limited so it doesn't seem like an especially helpful instrument to help deal with high inflation times like now.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/research/indepth/ibonds/res_ibonds.htm

I Bond current rate is 0?

To all that replied, thank you very much. This I believe is why Tom started this site 25 or so years ago. For people to help each other by exchanging information.
Not quite sure what I'll wind up doing but the information has been very helpful

AGAIN THANK YOU !!

Yes . That is the fixed rate of current issue. So you can never get less than 0. They pay fixed rate of 0 plus the CPI twice a year. So if CPI is 4.5 you get 0 plus 4.5 for 6 months and if it's still 4.5 in 6 months you get another 4.5 which makes it a 9% bond. If it goes to 0 you'd still get the 4.5% for this year. If there is no inflation for 12 months your return is 0.

wow... now there's an investment

Run fast from the annuity man. Better yet drive.

You can set up with the treasury and do the i bond thing. I’ve got some and the rate should raise again next month. It’s set twice a year. You and your wife can get 10k each and the other 5k if via a tax return.

With 100k, you get 500 bucks at Schwab for opening an account. You just need a referral code from somebody that uses them. That person doesn’t get anything. Only you do.

You could look at a dividend fund like SCHD or VIG. Those invest in companies that pay rising dividends. If you want to do real estate, skip the hassles(I was a landlord) and go with a reit. Best in an ira as the income is taxed as ordinary, unless you qualify for a special deal that was in the trump tax cuts.

Other than that, remember that people claiming to know the direction of things are generally wrong. Especially true of anybody hawking investments. The one method that works out is staying invested. Timing in and out is a losing deal.

What a ridiculous statement. I jumped in with both feet in March 2020 during the crash and saw almost everything pump 45-50%. My Ford stock went from $7.00 to $22.00 or something alone. I just wish I sold it at that, when they are volatile, you also be volatile

Problem with this game plan, and you alluded to it, is timing.

Marketwatch has an online "game" where you invest money into the market, everything is real but the money you use. It's supposed to be a training type thing. One thing I learned is that if you are going to play the volatile timing game you had better be in front of the computer ready to trade when ever the market is open. I have a real job that pays real money that doesn't allow me to sit in front of the computer ready to trade. So while I generally make a few bucks over all I don't see big gains because I cannot hit the timing. Heck, I've lost money even being in front of the computer because I wanted a little bit more and the bottom fell out, lol.

As the song goes, you got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away and know when to run. Learning that is the toughest part of playing the volatile market game and exactly why I am still playing on Marketwatch and not in the game for real.

There are blue chip stocks you can just leave your money in, the banks, phone service, life insurance (just sold that one, somehow it held out when everything else was red but I only made $2500 off my $4000 investment in 2 years, which is pretty sad) I moved to the high stakes table.

that is always the problem.
I look at bitcoin to remind me what an idiot I might be.
I didn't put in 20 bucks of bitcoin when it was less than a penny per coin. I mean like a fraction of a cent.
but if I had, would I have even held on to it after it jumped to 100 bucks a coin? how back would I be kicking myself when it hit 60k per if I had sold it back at 100, or even at a thousand per?
and I use game stop to remind me not to be greedy.
after it hit 400, I decided to play a few bucks when it dropped back down to 200. managed to get out with a profit, but was sweating when it went back down to nearly 100. lol.

Check this out. What is 1700 x $42,000 ?

lol, yep, 500 bucks or 76 million. lol.

Interesting reading and a lot of knowledge and experience. I was a landlord for awhile ( rented out my condo when I bought my house ) it was a hassle luckily my renters always paid the rent on time. If you or anybody decides to go that route make sure to run a credit report on the potential tenant. There are a lot of B.Sers out there with sob stories to try and get you to rent to them. My friend is selling a house now that he rented out for close to ten years he is so relieved to no longer be a landlord. 17 years ago I was laid off from a job with a big pharma company after 21 years I had a 401 K and a pension not knowing any better I rolled it over into an annuity and it has actually done quite well beating expectations as far as what it was expected to gain. I'm 68 and retired ( sort of ) my house is paid off and we have no real big monthly bills and my wife still works ( younger than me ) I know in a few years I will have to start withdrawing from the annuity even if I don't need the $$ and am not looking forward paying the taxes I am going to have to pay on the withdrawal.

I knew making a fact based statement would net us a fish. Lmao.

You even detailed the exact problem with timing, and don’t know enough to see it. Lol

Anyway, the simplest way to explain this to you rookies is Fidelity mentions from time to time that their best performing accounts are those that are forgotten or the owner passes away and never traded.

I’m a buy and hold type investor but do watch the market and try to trade when opportunities become apparent.
I picked up a couple stocks in March 2020. I actually bought them too early and they dropped further after I bought, but did great over the time since.
I’m still kicking myself for not recognizing a great opportunity to add to my Chevron holdings in April 2020 when oil was dropping below 0. Seems so obvious a perfect buying opportunity I can’t imagine why it didn’t occur to me then.
Warren Buffet said he has never bought at the top or sold at the bottom. He is still a bit of a trader though, a long term horizon buyer and seller.
Trading constantly like day trading is a suckers bet. Something like 95% of day traders lose money over time. Why get into it? Ego, insecurity, gambling addiction type personality?

Simple deal to do if you want to invest, when something gets to whatever % gain you wanted, sell enough to get you initial principle back and have essentially free shares. Have a friend that is a multi millionaire doing this on early tech stuff and morphed to dividend paying stocks later on. I suggested he juice the returns by selling some calls against his holdings and it makes him a nice sum every month. Not having to pay commissions is a big game changer for this as well.

Use the principle to find another investment vehicle to rinse/repeat. The bitcoin guy with 1700 is a perfect example. Sell 850 and let the rest run. It's house money!

Even if you are on the hook for a cap gains tax expense, the true cost of the investment is a percentage of the actual share cost you have recorded.

The Buffet dirty secret, he is a net seller of put options. Example - They file a sales notice with SEC for Apple selling a bunch of shares. They also are selling puts, collecting $$$$, at a significantly lower price which makes them obligated to buy shares at a price by a specificexpiration date. The option buyer can put the shares on them, if the stock price is below the sold put strike any time before expiration. Buffet sells apple, days or weeks later public disclosure gets into the market news, apple sells off and guess who is sitting there waiting for the price to fall in his lap... Gets paid to wait for the outcome they desire. Market manipulation???

Selling puts is a great way to generate income if you are comfortable owning a stock at a specific price.

Everything, even risk free return stuff, has a risk attached to it. No free lunches.

My mentors were all market timers so market timing is what I learned to do. I made money with market timing for many years, but I would've made more money if I had just bought and held a S&P 500 index fund. Of course, I would've made even more money if I had just held some of my early tech holdings! Market timing can work but it is a brutal fight. Market timing inside a taxable account is suicide, it isn't too bad if you operate inside a tax deferred account. Buy and hold works the best if you are lucky enough to buy a really good stock. Being overweighted in a great stock is the best deal possible but most of us never get the chance. Or, when we do get the chance we don't see it, or can't hold it. In the early 90's I put most of my portfolio into Intel warrants. Those Intel warrants ended up being worth $10M in the big 1999 runup but I sold well before then. I just didn't have the guts to hold on to such a large position. The volatility created so much stress that I had to sell. For the average person the best bet is an index fund. I thought I was a big time investor but I couldn't handle the stress when my account balance was whipping back and forth. The funny thing is that in hindsight I was correct and there wasn't really any risk in my position. But I didn't know it at the time and I couldn't convince myself to stop looking at the numbers all day long.

I am living proof of that. In 1978 my employer (publicly owned utility) gave all the employees some stock under an ESOP (employee stock ownership plan IIRC). The dividends were re-invested in buying more stock. When I retired in 2016 I had never touched any of that stock over the nearly 40 years that the account existed as opposed to some of my co-workers who sold their stock and bought cars, boats, snowmobiles, houses, etc. I ended up with a lot of stock that right now pays about $40k annually in dividends. It's true, sometimes even the blind squirrel finds the nut.

Looks like a good day to buy?

Buying stocks when they're only down 1-2 % in an uncertain market isn't a good buy. They're basically the same price or higher than last week.

Save for United Healthcare, they're all down sharply since last month.

Oh I know exactly what I did, I timed the market for buy in and didnt sell out in time. I still have blue chip holds from March 2020 and while the market is all red, they are still up 40% min. Fidelity just bought an 80 storey tower in decentraland, I was in there before they were.

All of my investment mistakes over the past 30 years have been on the sell side. Sometimes I sell too soon, sometimes I sell too late. My buys have all been great. Of course, I've been working in a 30 year bull market so any buy over the past 30 years has been good. It is the selling that is tricky. For the most part I sold stuff too soon. Had I just held the first stuff I bought 30 years ago until now I'd be loaded.

Your reading this from a guy that sold about 800 shares of intel stock in about 1984 for ? thought I was lucky to get most of my $$ back.
If I buy a stock, it's guaranteed to plummet and stay there until I sell, at which time it will ROCKET itno the stratosphere LOL

But on 7-11-81 I got real lucky and married a wonderful lady that Ii am still married to today. Wouldm't trade her for all the $$ that gates has

Yeah, I had a bunch of Apple stock back in the 90's that I sold because the company had hit a bad stretch. If I still had those same shares today they would be worth several million. (And I'd probably sell them today since the market it in a bumpy spot!)

Well awhile back I put in what I thought was an impossibly low order in for Netflix. It's 52 week high is over $700 and was $600 in January. Order filled at $200 today. Bargain or mistake who knows only time will tell.

I hope you do well, the Motley Fool has been hyping it all year as a buying opportunity. I'm come to regard TMF like Jim Cramer. Tipranks may not be much better?

https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/nflx/stock-analysis

I haven't bought anything tipranks doesn't call a strong buy and I'm losing my backside.

Just a guess on that tipranks analysis. Basic technical stuff using a 50% retrace of the double top high at $400 into last gap down drop, gets you to around $300, filling most of the gap. Will it fill that gap? Who knows.

If you want to reduce risk a bit and have 100 shares, sell out of the money calls against the position. Cost basis reduction approach. Good if you have a longer term outlook. About 30 days out a 220 call is selling for right at $5.10 or $510. If it stays below 220, you collect the $510. If it goes above 220 at expiration, you get 510 + 2000 in profit. It locks you out of a big run up, but that is the trade off for collecting the call premium. Hitting the strike and called away nets a 12.5% return for 24 days. Reduces your risk from 200/share to 195ish as well. If you can rinse and repeat this without hitting the strike, it further reduces the basis of your stock.


NFLX is a wild ride right now. If it breaks this 200 level, 160 is in the cards. Appears to have levels about every $20 on the downside as support to 120-140 area.

Just more stuff to chew over.

At times like these I start with just buying about 1/10 of the position I'm comfortable owning and will add a little more if it goes down each 10%. So around $180 and again $160 depending on how fast it falls. I can't time the the market and there seems to be a running for the exit sale getting ready to happen. Have cash on the sideline waiting for SP 500 to break 4,000. Might go as low as 3600 but the trick is to buy a little at a time and be willing to wait at least 3 years. But you can't use this theory when buying high risk stocks. They must be watched and protected.

Worse trade I made this past year was not buying the SARK etf when I knew about it and passed when it first opened. It shorts the ARK etf. Only up 93.4% since it opened Nov. 2021.

I went 100% cash in my portfolio at the end of 2021 since it looked like the world was going nuts. No idea when I'll buy back in. Might stay in cash all year at this rate. I'm getting eaten up by inflation but at least I'm not getting killed as the market drops. Feels a little like 2007 right now, not sure if 2008 will show back up again or not. Hopefully not, that was really rough and I'd rather not go thru it again.

and just put some in a fixe rate short term annuity till the dust settles a bit

Just a couple of thoughts. No one gets killed in a down market if they don't sell. To be a successful market timer, you have to be right twice..... when to get in and when to get out. Every market timer has one success story of when they either got in or out at the right time. But I don't know of any that get it right consistently over the long term. Rolling a tax deferred account into an annuity only benefits the person selling the annuity.. Most annuities mainly benefit the person selling the annuity. Having at least a portion of a portfolio in stocks is important to keep up with inflation. An all cash portfolio may not have market risk, but it certainly bears inflation risk. Never sell equities based on fear or emotion. Chances are it will be the wrong decision in the long term. If you are retired and are relying on your portfolio for living expenses, it may be a good idea to have several years worth of living expenses in cash, so you don't have to sell equities at a loss during a bear market. If you have equities in your portfolio, you need to get used to fluctuations and volatility in your account value, it's part of the risk for long term reward.

I'll pass on those. Bonds are going to take a big hit as interest rates move up this year and stocks seem to be getting slammed too. I'm 100% cash at the moment so I'll just ride it out for a bit. If the S&P gets a 20% haircut from the top then I'll consider buying back in. Usually the best time to buy is when the magazine covers start talking about how horrible the market is. We aren't at that point yet.

[quote=AndyF. Usually the best time to buy is when the magazine covers start talking about how horrible the market is. We aren't at that point yet. [/quote]

Thanks for the advice
BTW, What's a magazine? LMAO, is there an app for that? SH-t I don't have a smart phone
Not trying to be offensive just a bit of my humor that sometimes comes across wrong

Go to the store and look in the magazine aisle.