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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3028121
03/27/22 05:35 PM
03/27/22 05:35 PM
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Joined: May 2019
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nowhere
Sniper
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one 220 the other two are 110 (3 phase) That is not how three phase works. All three legs will read the same. What you have is two 110v feeds of different phasing that read across gives you 220.
Last edited by Sniper; 03/27/22 05:37 PM.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: Sniper]
#3028187
03/27/22 10:12 PM
03/27/22 10:12 PM
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North Dakota
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What you posted is accurate but misleading. Look at the following diagram, if the installing electrician had his act together he would have placed 50% of the load on one of the incoming legs and the other 50% on the other incoming leg. Theoretically, if the two 110 volt loads are equal, what you have is two 110 volt loads in series for a total 220 volt load. Theoretically the neutral, the center tap on the utility transformer has no current if the two 110 volt loads are equal. But since they never are, the neutral is to tie down the neutral point such that the two 110 volt loads actually see 110 volts. That is why the conductor sizes vary between the three. For my utility the standard is #4/0 for both hot legs and #1/0 for the neutral.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: Sniper]
#3028200
03/27/22 11:21 PM
03/27/22 11:21 PM
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fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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one 220 the other two are 110 (3 phase) That is not how three phase works. All three legs will read the same. What you have is two 110v feeds of different phasing that read across gives you 220. I guess my volt meter has been wrong for years
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: 6PakBee]
#3028203
03/27/22 11:43 PM
03/27/22 11:43 PM
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fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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What you posted is accurate but misleading. Look at the following diagram, if the installing electrician had his act together he would have placed 50% of the load on one of the incoming legs and the other 50% on the other incoming leg. Theoretically, if the two 110 volt loads are equal, what you have is two 110 volt loads in series for a total 220 volt load. Theoretically the neutral, the center tap on the utility transformer has no current if the two 110 volt loads are equal. But since they never are, the neutral is to tie down the neutral point such that the two 110 volt loads actually see 110 volts. That is why the conductor sizes vary between the three. For my utility the standard is #4/0 for both hot legs and #1/0 for the neutral.
Yes he had his act together, one lead wire for each leg going up the box. For 220-240 the breaker connects to each leg (2 wires running to 220 appliance). Switch works ok, contacts clean. Changed caps still doing the same thing. I’m pulling out the motor since I can’t see the wire hookups. Been dreading that because the two back bolts are hard to get to. Got to many red wires coming out of the motor.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3028261
03/28/22 08:59 AM
03/28/22 08:59 AM
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The fact that the motor started and ran normally with acceptable power in one direction told me there was nothing wrong with the centrifugal starting switch, the start capacitor, or the run capacitor. The failure to operate in the other direction still seems to me to be caused by a failure to successfully switch whatever winding is being used to reverse the motor, probably the start winding as it won't try to start. Before you start field stripping the motor, determine what reversing switch you have. It should be wired something like this. Caution: this may not be your exact switch, you will have to determine what you have. Then measure the voltage between the switch connections in both directions. Measure between #2 and #3 and between #4 and #1 in one direction. Reverse the switch and take the same readings. I'll bet you a beer you won't have 220 volts for all four readings.
The following diagram illustrates what I mean.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3028283
03/28/22 10:09 AM
03/28/22 10:09 AM
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On the cover for the switch do you have a manufacturer and model? These things are similar but not identical manufacturer to manufacturer so I am loathe to recommend anything specific without that info.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3028377
03/28/22 02:12 PM
03/28/22 02:12 PM
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If this is the switch you are using, then according to the attached PDF it appears you have a scheme 34 Bremas switch. The run terminals would be U and V and the start terminals would be Y and Z.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3028545
03/29/22 12:43 AM
03/29/22 12:43 AM
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fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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Got some pics, two capacitors front one sparked big time when touched with screw driver. I’m pretty sure this part is what’s bad (silver capacitor) the needle on meter doesn’t move, the other one does. The guy changed a few wires so can’t go by the diagram now but looking at the switch and connections I figured out which ones do what.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 03/29/22 12:47 AM.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3031558
04/07/22 12:39 PM
04/07/22 12:39 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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Update, got two new capacitors then put the motor back in. Ran the same, slow cw, ok the other. The inside plate in the end of motor had numbers next to each connection so I compared the drawing and numbers. I then hooked it up without switch (changing red and black leads for direction) . Same results. After going thru the connections again I found the two line ins were swapped, L1 stays hot no disconnect but line 2 is connected to the yellow and either black or red (direction change) switched those and all’s well. I have no clue how long it was like that since Jimmy died back in the 90s and his son died in March ( motorcycle acc), but I’m almost sure Jim put the motor on in the 60s. I’m a happy camper now, just had to get my noodle working right. Took it to the motor shop (80 years in business) and they couldn’t explain the problem either, said they’ll have to break it apart to trace wires so I didn’t let them $$, new motor was cheaper.
Thanks for the help guys
BTW that new capacitor nocked the living sh!t out of me, didn’t realize it feed back thru one of the connections!!!! Got me next to the thumb in the palm, felt funny for awhile.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 04/07/22 12:43 PM.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3031625
04/07/22 03:43 PM
04/07/22 03:43 PM
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Posts: 3,380
St. Charles, MO
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Glad to hear you got it figured out!
1969 Dodge Coronet Super Bee 383 A4
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 440 FC7 (sold)
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3031695
04/07/22 08:55 PM
04/07/22 08:55 PM
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Omaha Ne
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BTW that new capacitor nocked the living sh!t out of me, didn’t realize it feed back thru one of the connections!!!! Got me next to the thumb in the palm, felt funny for awhile.
Originally Posted by cudaman1969 Got some pics, two capacitors front one sparked big time when touched with screw driver. Capacitors will do that as they store the electrons, do be careful as depending on the size of the capacitor they can be LETHAL   I'm reposting this for general info hoping someone remembers it if they happen to be playing around with electrical motors, old TV's radios' etc. 
Last edited by TJP; 04/07/22 09:03 PM.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: wingman]
#3034810
04/18/22 08:00 PM
04/18/22 08:00 PM
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fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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Update on motor, runs great, added two cutoff boxes and made some brass drifts (old propeller shaft)
Last edited by cudaman1969; 04/18/22 08:04 PM.
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Re: Electric Motor issues
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3034935
04/19/22 08:29 AM
04/19/22 08:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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North Dakota
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Update, got two new capacitors then put the motor back in. Ran the same, slow cw, ok the other. The inside plate in the end of motor had numbers next to each connection so I compared the drawing and numbers. I then hooked it up without switch (changing red and black leads for direction) . Same results. After going thru the connections again I found the two line ins were swapped, L1 stays hot no disconnect but line 2 is connected to the yellow and either black or red (direction change) switched those and all’s well. I have no clue how long it was like that since Jimmy died back in the 90s and his son died in March ( motorcycle acc), but I’m almost sure Jim put the motor on in the 60s. I’m a happy camper now, just had to get my noodle working right. Took it to the motor shop (80 years in business) and they couldn’t explain the problem either, said they’ll have to break it apart to trace wires so I didn’t let them $$, new motor was cheaper.
Thanks for the help guys
BTW that new capacitor nocked the living sh!t out of me, didn’t realize it feed back thru one of the connections!!!! Got me next to the thumb in the palm, felt funny for awhile. So in other words, the lathe had NEVER worked acceptably since you got it? That would have been nice to know. It's one thing to try to revive something that died versus something that is dead.
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