Why on earth would you buy through Ebay when you know who the actual source is ?!?!? You've just added an unnecessary link in the chain.

This was my immediate thought when I read the initial post. Why in the hell wouldn't you buy right from the seller and leave ebay out of it?

Maybe he was trying to save some money, pennies probably

I see a lot of this 'one strike and you're out' kind of post here lately. I understand folk's frustration with this kind of stuff. But this is another case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not considering 440 Source or any other competitive supplier for future purchases does the buyer far more damage than it does the offending supplier. But if it makes you feel good, go ahead. And trying to rally others to that position will likely fall on deaf ears, too. Which is the only reason to post a bad experience.

We recently had a less than stellar experience with 440 Source, too. But to cut them off would cause us more problems than them. And would fix nothing.

Good luck to the OP with his other suppliers. If he takes this tact with all of them, he will run out of suppliers because no one is perfect. Especially today.

To send the wrong part and then hide behind a "no return policy" is total BS. Not only should they send the correct part but they should also pay the return shipping on the wrong part.
That is how GOOD business is done. I don't care who they are.

I do not disagree with you at all. And I read a good number of posts on here from guys that feel the same way that you do. There are threads about Jegs, Summit, UPS, RockAuto, FedEx, Ebay, etc. Virtually every major supplier/shipper has had some mud thrown their way on this board. And much of it may have been rightly deserved.

I just wish you guys luck discontinuing use of major suppliers over a single $20 issue. And as mentioned above, there are additional avenues to try. If $20 (or the principle of the matter) is more important than your time to chase it.

Why on earth would you buy through Ebay when you know who the actual source is ?!?!? You've just added an unnecessary link in the chain.

Exactly.

I hate seeing only one side of the story especially with a company I have known to go above and beyond at times. Personally if it was a 20.00 fitting it would be in my fitting box and probably used on another project. If you would see the box of spare nuts, bolts, and fittings I keep in my trailer just in case you would think I’m nuts. But it’s helped myself and friends keep racing many a race.

Why don’t you donate 20 bucks to 440 Source? Easy to blow off this guy getting screwed like a tied goat when you don’t have skin in the game. This is business, not a charity. Do you shake down your customers and give them this line about needing you?

... this is another case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Not considering 440 Source *or any other competitive supplier* for future purchases does the buyer far more damage than it does the offending supplier. But if it makes you feel good, go ahead. And trying to rally others to that position will likely fall on deaf ears, too. Which is the only reason to post a bad experience.

We recently had a less than stellar experience with 440 Source, too. But to cut them off would cause us more problems than them. And would fix nothing.

Good luck to the OP with his other suppliers. If he takes this tact with all of them, he will run out of suppliers because no one is perfect. Especially today.

Not if the seller marks that they are not accepting returns. I thought they would of taken care of this but I had to go to PayPal to get something done.

So tX .....if the seller sends you a set of main bearings instead of the rod bearings you ordered......... eBay wont step in ?

Nope not one bit was I trying to be cheap. I wanted to explore what options are out there for the heater fittings and saw these brass ones. I ordered them and after the order I noticed it was 440source. I was not trying to be a penny pincher, I was wanting brass ones and paid more then the steel ones.

I miss the days when Branden owned and operated the company. Nice guy and even bought some products..

it doesn't matter if you were trying to be cheap or not. they sent the wrong part and should make it right. they pull that crap with me i wouldn't do business with them again either. it would be stupid to. don't know how some can justify that.. thats just crazy.. places doing this crap need to be called out...

EXACTLY.

Some people on this forum really disliked Brandon.

$19.27

That was the amount they turned me away from me ever purchasing another thing from them. I purchased some brass heater hose fittings off eBay from them. They had the correct size description and application listed in the description. I purchased them on Sept 20 using PayPal and waited for them to arrive.

Well when they arrived and I had received the wrong sized ones. No big deal I started a return, explained what was wrong in the return and waited. No response

Contacted eBay and they asked me to send them a message through eBay to see if they would respond to that. I sent a nice message explaining what was wrong and just wanted it corrected...nothing, no response

I talked to eBay and they just informed me that 440source is no longer accepting returns. There is nothing much they can do

I now have started a claim with PayPal.

Yes I understand it's not a large amount but I just wanted the correct part. The pieces are unused and I wanted to send them back for the correct ones.....nope. It's sad to see a company in a nitch markets to not provide good customer service, provide the correct part, or have a return policy when they send you the incorrect part.

We responded to your message on ebay within 1 day with the following exact text (cut and pasted from our ebay message:)

"Hi Jim, yes we sell hundreds of sets of those and don't normally have any problems with the threads. Can you send a clear picture of the threads? We can compare your set to what we have on the shelf and see if there is some kind of defect. Also, can you chase the threads in a die to clean them up?"

You did not send any pictures of what you were describing, so that we could get an idea of what was going on. You did not respond at all to the idea of possibly chasing the threads to clean them up, a solution which would likely solve the issue in less than 2 minutes.

Instead, we received the following message from you:

"OK 440 source, U haven't answered so I will have to stop payment on the items & you can then tell me how to return them to you. They look good but DO NOT HAVE CUT THREADS."

Then you filed a dispute with Paypal.

If you would have shown us what you were talking about, and the item was proven to be defective in some way, we would have sent a replacement right away at no cost to you.

Likely paypal will allow you to keep the item and your payment for it. This happens often on ebay and forces the prices higher for everyone else.

Please feel free to use other suppliers for your Mopar needs in the future.

The request to send pictures is a PITA for some of us. I have use a camera, take several pic's as I'm not a photographer, then download the pic's, review them, pic out the best and or edit them, then do an email and attach the pic's. Translation: A time consuming royal PITA for a 20.00 purchase.

That kind of unprofessional, punkass remark tells me everything I need to know about the current management of 440 source!

Ohhhhhh boy. Another side to the story.

They might want the pics for QC purposes. Whomever is making those parts might have messed it up. Not really all that hard to take pics in all seriousness.

My focus in my business is on 1) lowering customer acquisition cost, 2) increasing the number of customers, and 3) maximizing the long-term value of a customer.

If a customer calls or writes complaining about a $19 part, unless it's something I can help with over the phone VERY easily (try switching the A and B plugs, etc), I will ship them a replacement right away and depending on whether or not I wanted to look at the item they originally got I might send them a pre-paid USPS label to get it back to me. I am not going to ask them to try and fix the $19 part if it came out of manufacturing and QA with a problem.

Handling something like this with great customer service is going to maximize the long-term value of that customer. Consumers have a higher confidence in companies that quickly resolve issues to their satisfaction on a problem order than they do with companies that have never had a problem shipment. Being cheap, or just demanding to be right over a $19 issue, I guarantee you are lowering if not immediately ending the long-term value of that customer. If your acquisition cost is more than your profit-to-date for all order to that person, congratulations, you are upside down...over $19.

So, for me, it's not a question of right and wrong, it's a question of keeping the cash coming in, and taking a loss now and then in order to keep the customer loyal.

I'll repeat,
The request to send pictures is a PITA for some of us. I have use a camera, take several pic's as I'm not a photographer, then download the pic's, review them, pic out the best and or edit them, then do an email and attach the pic's. Translation: A time consuming royal PITA for a 20.00 purchase.

My shop rate is more than 20.00 for time required to do the above. In addition, 440's cost is likely more as well.

please re read the entire post especially the last sentence or two

And for those who feel sending pics is SO hard, c'mon. My 77 yrs old mother takes and sends pics all the time.

My 77 yrs old mother takes and sends pics all the time.

I'll repeat,
The request to send pictures is a PITA for some of us. I have use a camera, take several pic's as I'm not a photographer, then download the pic's, review them, pic out the best and or edit them, then do an email and attach the pic's. Translation: A time consuming royal PITA for a 20.00 purchase.

My shop rate is more than 20.00 for time required to do the above. In addition, 440's cost is likely more as well.

please re read the entire post especially the last sentence or two

And I'll bet your 77 YO grandmother has the time to do so. Not all of us have the snap a pic and send it phone

TMI

Ya I guess 30 seconds out of your day is asking for to much. Lmao 😂
It’s easier to write a post crying about 20.00.

We responded to your message on ebay within 1 day with the following exact text (cut and pasted from our ebay message:)

"Hi Jim, yes we sell hundreds of sets of those and don't normally have any problems with the threads. Can you send a clear picture of the threads? We can compare your set to what we have on the shelf and see if there is some kind of defect. Also, can you chase the threads in a die to clean them up?"

You did not send any pictures of what you were describing, so that we could get an idea of what was going on. You did not respond at all to the idea of possibly chasing the threads to clean them up, a solution which would likely solve the issue in less than 2 minutes.

Instead, we received the following message from you:

"OK 440 source, U haven't answered so I will have to stop payment on the items & you can then tell me how to return them to you. They look good but DO NOT HAVE CUT THREADS."

Then you filed a dispute with Paypal.

If you would have shown us what you were talking about, and the item was proven to be defective in some way, we would have sent a replacement right away at no cost to you.

Likely paypal will allow you to keep the item and your payment for it. This happens often on ebay and forces the prices higher for everyone else.

Please feel free to use other suppliers for your Mopar needs in the future.

I read your entire post the first time.

If taking a decent picture and emailing it off exceeds your abilities I call BS. You post here, I know you know how to do it. If $20 exceeds your rate then you are wasting a lot of money sitting around here, heck you already wasted more than $20 just commenting in this thread.

Oh, what I would give to have employees work this hard for $19.27.

Ya I guess 30 seconds out of your day is asking for to much. Lmao 😂
It’s easier to write a post crying about 20.00.

I never said it exceeded my capabilities. I said, for some it's a time consuming PITA. Being self employed, wrong parts cost me enough before the picture taking/emailing circle jerk even begins.
The seller thinks he may have a QC issue with his inventory/supplier? then f----- go look, don't cause the customer more lost time because of a screw up on your end.
Doing so creates this exact issue in some cases.
On a more expensive part, understandable, 20.00 part, Not worth either one's time IMO.
I work with a lot of different suppliers. The ones that get preference are the ones that try to make my life easier by saying:
We're sorry this happened, we will ship another (overnight if needed) and a call tag if they want the part back. End of problem for me smile
And FYI: I come here to relax as I enjoy trying to help others with technical problems and occasionally give my opinions. Not to aggravate or condemn others for their suggestions/opinions /thoughts

And apparently by the OP's latest post the seller didn't even have the correct buyer, hmm that says something in itself

I'll repeat,
The request to send pictures is a PITA for some of us. I have use a camera, take several pic's as I'm not a photographer, then got to the computer, download the pic's, review them, pic out the best and or edit them, then do an email and attach the pic's. Translation: A time consuming royal PITA for a 20.00 purchase.

WOW so you can do all of the above as outlined in 30 secs? the walk from the shop to the office takes longer about 30 sec's by itself

I'll repeat,
The request to send pictures is a PITA for some of us. I have use a camera, take several pic's as I'm not a photographer, then got to the computer, download the pic's, review them, pic out the best and or edit them, then do an email and attach the pic's. Translation: A time consuming royal PITA for a 20.00 purchase.

WOW so you can do all of the above as outlined in 30 secs? the walk from the shop to the office takes longer about 30 sec's by itself

And FYI: I come here to relax as I enjoy trying to help others with technical problems and occasionally give my opinions. Not to aggravate or condemn others for their suggestions/opinions /thoughts

Ahhhhh fantastic response, unfortunately there are some issues.....

1. My name isn't Jim, my name is Garret.... That should help you out

2. Here is my exact message, I sent you. The return request was not that good of a description, but got the problem across. The second message was through direct message. The second one had photos attached with the problem. Here is my exact second message to your company:

"Good evening, I am wanting to return these fittings. My water pump housing is from 1969 and has a 3/8 fitting for one of the pipes. I received a pair where they both the larger size versions. I am wondering if I can return them and they are both unused. The date code on my water pump housing is from 1969.

Thank you for your assistance"

3. I never sent a response email about you not responding to my message (PLUS I AM NOT JIM) and tried to work with eBay in getting in touch with you and they also were going to contact you about the issue. When they advised me your not taking returns, I tried one again to message you.....zero response to my message or return request. I then decided to have PayPal step in.

I am still willing to send back the heater fittings (I'll even ship them on my dime) if I get my money back (even if it's done by PayPal).
It's unfortunate that it took this thread for you to finally respond.....with wrong information on a different customer...but you finally responded.

Might be a good idea to get your customers straight before you respond to a post. Or just maybe return messages would be easier.

You are correct. There was confusion here. There was another customer named Jim who had an issue with the threads and would not clarify what the actual issue was, and refused to send pictures of the problem, or further explain what the actual problem was. So, when we saw this post, we assumed it was from that customer. So please accept our apologies for that. We have issued a full refund through ebay/paypal and they do not require you to return the item.

Almost everything we sell on ebay is free shipping. We normally do not accept returns on ebay items with free shipping. This fact is very clearly stated in the terms of all our ebay auctions as "RETURNS NOT ACCEPTED." The reason for this is the shipping costs are the single largest cost in selling the item, and when a customer returns the item, nobody refunds the shipping cost. On an item like those heater hose nipples, they sell for $17.95, and shipping is generally $5-$8, depending on location, etc. After factoring in the actual cost of the item itself, the cost of packaging, ebay fees, etc. If we allowed returns on free shipping ebay items, it would be unprofitable and we would not sell on ebay at all. Because of this, we list details in the description about the item. The heater hose nipples description says: " They.. feature 3/8" NPT pipe threads." Your housing that you sent a picture of looks like it has one 1/2" NPT hole, one 1/4" NPT hole and one 3/8" NPT hole. So we encourage people to ask questions about fitment BEFORE they place an order to make sure they are getting the right thing. In this case, if you would have asked or sent us that picture before ordering, we would have told you that you could have used a simple reducing bushing (of 1/2-3/8, available at any Home Depot) in the larger fitting hole, and that would have allowed you to use this heater hose nipple setup. Normally the double 3/8" NPT setup is designed for aftermarket aluminum housings which they work perfectly with.

We work SUPER hard to provide good customer service. Over the last 12 months from our Ebay sales, we have received 1316 positive feedbacks and 6 negative ones. And of those 6, some were because of shipping issues. Contrary to what some may think, we are not in charge of the management of the U.S. Postal Service. Once we hand the packages over, they do what they will with them, just the same as when you hand them your packages. But based on our feedback, 99.4% of our customers are happy. That's a pretty dang high percentage when you are selling hundreds of thousands of parts to thousands of people per year.

Again, please accept our apology for the mixup here, we assumed it was someone else and you did not provide any specifics about the situation in your post such as your ebay auction number or username there, etc. Paypal has stepped in and issued you a full refund and allowed you to keep the item.

Also, just one afterthought. In this original post, you stated that we "sent you the incorrect part" The description of this item clearly lists the heater hose nipples as featuring 3/8" NPT threads. We sent you exactly what was listed in the description of the item. Just because the water pump housing you have uses a different size, doesn't mean we sent you the wrong part, it means you didn't read the description when purchasing the item, or look at your water pump housing to determine if they would fit properly before ordering. And then you come onto a public forum and make a thread titled "440 Source sucks" because of that. No way do we deserve that.

Your ad advertised they fit water pump housings from 1964-1969. Mine is a 1969 housing and was incorrect for my application. No harm no foul in my book. This could of been easily worked out in messenger.

I also as a buyer, I did not deserve get no response from the return started on Sept 25 message, the follow up message on Oct 8 with photo, and supposedly eBay following up with you. If you reply to messages or requests within one day, where was the break down. If you would of just returned one of those messages, this post would of 100% not been made even if it was a pound sand on the return. I would of just take it as a "oh ok" and went on with my life. The zero response and zero communication was the problem. Respond to messages from your customers, it's simple in business.

Now that’s a great ending. I’ll stick up for 440source because I’ve seen some of the things they have done for friends over the years with different issues. They went above and beyond with service in some of these cases. For me personally, I bought a stroker assembly many many years ago when I couldn’t afford high dollar parts and ran 8.60’s@155mph in my Daytona till the block finally cracked. That assembly was sold and is to this day still seeing street duty. Their valve covers are going on my B1 engine and the guy that just bought my green duster was very satisfied with their aluminum American-made oil pan I gave him as an extra. I also bought two sets of their Stealth heads to port and sell again with zero issues. Zero issues with any of the sales but I try to make phone calls when ordering. I hate texting and and online sales when it’s possible to talk to someone. I wish we could go back to the old ways of doing business.

You sir are a liar.

Remember a few months back talking crap to me because of a question I asked of someone else? Something that might have struck a chord in you?

I sure do.

Yes I can do that in less than 30 seconds. It's called a smart phone.....

Really, some people like me have to drive 4.5 miles for signal that will send data, and some of us are still on copper dial up/dsl.

Let me tell you what happened today and hopefully it will serve as a customer service lesson for small businesses.

I got a frantic call before opening hours from a new customer (referred by Motorola - a good long term customer). They had ordered 30 cables which we delivered a month ago. They went to install them today and found they had the wrong connectors at the end. A municipality shut down a tunnel at great expense and inconvenience for them to finish the install over the weekend. Those cables take a few days to make. They are in big trouble and it looks like I might have screwed up.

I went over the email chain and found out that while the original request was for the right connector, when my proposal was sent to their technical lead for review and approval, he told the ops manager (the original requestor) and me to change the connector type to the wrong kind. I quoted the changed connector type, they ordered it, we built it and shipped it. So, as it turns out, not my fault at all.

I came up with a solution that involves 60 bulkhead connectors and 60 short cables that in combination would provide the end-to-end solution they need along with the original cables. I am shipping them overnight Saturday delivery from 2 locations.

My cost including shipping is around $650. My profit margin on the first sale was around $1200. The customer has no budget left to pay for the extra cables and connectors and the freight. I agreed to eat the $650. Here's why:

The Ops manager (the one who is selecting vendors on future products) will go from bonehead to hero. He will have saved the install and at no extra cost. He will seem like a silver-tongued wizard that can force vendors to do magic to solve problems. The alternative is that he will look like a guy who didn't manage his project, vendors, or installers properly. I saved his butt. BIG TIME. Now he knows that I have his back, period. He's not going to buy his stuff from anyone else going forward (he switched to us for quality, not price). I took what would have been a one-time $1,200 profit and for $650 turned it into a long-term customer than is going to put project after project in our hands. If someone was willing to sell me a great customer out of the blue for $650 I would pay that all day long. So, why not do it through customer service? Not only that, but I skipped a pre-paid tee time this morning to deal with this (OK, there goes an other $45).

So, $19 or $1,900 or $19,000 the goal here is to keep a *good* customer, or to turn a so-so customer into a good customer. Long term consistent revenue is what you want. 440source seems to get this, even if their communication style could use some polish. For the amount they sell, the small unit-price, and the platform (ebay), they're probably doing the best anyone could. Have a great weekend, everyone. I am taking my 10 year old to get her hair dyed pink, and then will have to deal with my ex-wife when she sees it.