Intake for 500cube 440
#2954385
08/16/21 05:56 PM
08/16/21 05:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,576
KOS
OP
pro stock
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,576
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Hey guys what do you think about an eddy ch28 2x4 intake with 2 600cfm eddy carbs on a 4.15crank 440 with cnc ported stealth heads 580/250@50 cam,.or a single plane weaned 7512 with a 950holley?has to fit under stock hood for a 70 runner.
Last edited by KOS; 08/16/21 05:56 PM.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: KOS]
#2954400
08/16/21 06:20 PM
08/16/21 06:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
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Prospect, PA
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In my limited dyno testing on a 500 inch motor with similar cam size (248 @ 0.050, 0.605"), the Holley SD with a small venturi 950 made considerably more peak power and more average power than the six pack. I think most folks state or claim the six pack is as good or better than the Eddy 2x4. I don't know if that is true, or how the Weiand compares to the SD.
With that, my guess is if the goal is just max power between those two, probably the Weiand/950, but that is a lot of extrapolating to come to that conclusion. I'm not sure any of this helps.
FWIW, the 440 2D and the SD were similar in power overall. The SD had a few more hp up top, but the 2D had a little more in the lower rpm resulting in about the same average power. The 2D will fit under the hood.
Last edited by BSB67; 08/16/21 06:27 PM.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2954461
08/16/21 09:37 PM
08/16/21 09:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,687 Wichita
GY3
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
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Wichita
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[align:right][/align] On my 499 wedge, I tried several different carbs. The Dominator won and drove as good as the 950 after Dominic (ThumperDart) got done with it. My favorite intake was the Holley SD modified to take the Dominator. It was an easy mod that I did myself. And it fit under the hood, too. So you modified a Holley Street Dominator with the 4150 flange to accept a Dominator carb?! 🤔
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: GY3]
#2954554
08/17/21 08:54 AM
08/17/21 08:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,162 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,162
Benton, IL.
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Yep, it is fairly simple.
I got 4 aluminum bolts, screwed them in till tight, and cut them flush. Used a 4500 gasket for a template and drilled and taped the 4 new holes and opened the plenum up. Not a big deal at all and worked just fine.
Master, again and still
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: topside]
#2954578
08/17/21 10:02 AM
08/17/21 10:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,374 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,374
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Is there a penalty in TQ or HP using the SD vs. Eddy Perf RPM intake on a street application? The RPM can be a tight fit for stock air cleaners clearing the hood on some cars, and sometimes a dropped base can't be employed. I would assume the RPM would make more power, but a stealthy street motor's gonna spend more time in the 1500-3500 RPM range. A little loss in lowend, but not very noticeable. Years ago I did a same day track test b/t the two manifolds on my old 440 that ran 11.40s at 117 mph in my cuda. The ET and MPH were almost identical, but the 60 foot was only .01-.02 slower w/ the Holley SD. On the street I really couldn't tell a difference. The car had 4.10s and a 3500 stall FWIW.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: KOS]
#2954589
08/17/21 10:26 AM
08/17/21 10:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,687 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,687
Wichita
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wow you guys really love the Holley SD.....ive seen em around and think you can still get em I just don't like the look of them. I'm a big fan! It keeps everything under my stock, flat hood even with a nitrous plate and phenolic spacer.
'63 Dodge 330 11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs. 10.01 @ 133mph with a 250 shot of nitrous an a splash of race gas. 1.36 60 ft. 3,700 lbs.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: KOS]
#2954610
08/17/21 11:52 AM
08/17/21 11:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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wow you guys really love the Holley SD.....ive seen em around and think you can still get em I just don't like the look of them. The Holley SD is very ugly but it seems to work okay. The dual carb Edelbrock manifold has a nice look to it and it works really well with the correct Edelbrock duals. I've run that combo before and it is nice for a street driver.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: GY3]
#2954618
08/17/21 12:07 PM
08/17/21 12:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,780 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
master
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master
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Holland MI Ottawa
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Dual quad Edelbrock set up may not make the most peak power but it looks perfect on a 440. Plus it does work very well!
Last edited by 2boltmain; 08/17/21 12:08 PM.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: topside]
#2954647
08/17/21 12:46 PM
08/17/21 12:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
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Posts: 4,316
Prospect, PA
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Is there a penalty in TQ or HP using the SD vs. Eddy Perf RPM intake on a street application? The RPM can be a tight fit for stock air cleaners clearing the hood on some cars, and sometimes a dropped base can't be employed. I would assume the RPM would make more power, but a stealthy street motor's gonna spend more time in the 1500-3500 RPM range. I believe the answer is yes for down low power, but not up top, but I also think the how much will depending on the engine specifics. I think when you cross the 450-500 hp threshold the SD will start making more peak hp. The higher the hp application the difference will become greater. Regarding "penalty in TQ" I'm not sure exactly how to respond. I'll assume you me down low power, or a lower rpm TQ peak. In the dyno testing I was actually surprised how much the SD gave up below below 4000 rpm on a 508 cuin engine. It was not huge, but I guess I was expecting something closer to zero difference between the SD and dual planes tested, which were nearly identical below 4000. Then you need to ask if giving up a little low end on a 500 inch motor matters.
Last edited by BSB67; 08/17/21 12:47 PM.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: BSB67]
#2954657
08/17/21 01:08 PM
08/17/21 01:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,856 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
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MI, usa
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My buddy runs the Eddy 2x4 intake with 2 600 Eddy's in his 65 Belvedere (all stock body street car). 440+.030",10.0-1, .557 Mopar solid, unported Eddy RPMs, cheap headers, decent converter, 4.10 on 93 pump gas. Will run 11.30-11.40 anywhere. Been 11.28 best. Doug
Last edited by dvw; 08/17/21 01:09 PM.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: BSB67]
#2954663
08/17/21 01:17 PM
08/17/21 01:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,162 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,162
Benton, IL.
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I'm not sure I understand the concern over 'low end' torque. With a lot of cubic inches, I have not had any converter that wouldn't flash well above 3,500. In fact, my biggest issue has been getting a converter that doesn't feel mushy down low. And even you stick guys, do you really feel a need for a little more torque way down low? Now understand that I don't think that there is ever too much torque, but here we are talking about the difference that intakes make way down low. A mute point in my experience.
Master, again and still
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2954709
08/17/21 02:47 PM
08/17/21 02:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,733 Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,733
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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I suppose it matters to the people that put 2.76 to 3.23 gears in a muscle car that came with 4.10s because they think it should be able to cruise 75 mph at 1500 rpm like a modern car that has Variable Valve Timing, Variable Length Intake Manifold, 2 overdrives and a lockup converter. I'm not one of those people. I like 4.10 gears. They work the same now as they worked in 1970. 3500 rpm on the highway for short distances won't hurt a thing.
An intake that works at 1500 rpm will not help if your cam doesn't get happy until 3000. Try to match your cam, intake and gears to the rpm range you want to spend time in.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2954903
08/17/21 11:13 PM
08/17/21 11:13 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 713 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 713
Lake Villa Il
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I'm not sure I understand the concern over 'low end' torque. With a lot of cubic inches, I have not had any converter that wouldn't flash well above 3,500. In fact, my biggest issue has been getting a converter that doesn't feel mushy down low. And even you stick guys, do you really feel a need for a little more torque way down low? Now understand that I don't think that there is ever too much torque, but here we are talking about the difference that intakes make way down low. A mute point in my experience. I agree. For whatever reason it seems to be what many prefer. I attribute it to a difference in driving style.
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: KOS]
#2954947
08/18/21 08:14 AM
08/18/21 08:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
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Prospect, PA
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thx guys I'm gonna try the CH28 2x4 with a pair of 600 eddy carbs.....its been mid 11s with the stock 6bbl 3.55s and stock vert. Great. Post your driving impressions and track results. It will be good to get real comparison data.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: lewtot184]
#2954969
08/18/21 09:44 AM
08/18/21 09:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,780 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,780
Holland MI Ottawa
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i use a ch28 on one of my 440's with two 600 edelbrocks. absolutely without any doubt in my mind the most street friendly reliable intake system i've ever run. i'd use 750's on a big engine or at least two 650avs2's. That setup looks perfect on the mopar440. In my opinion because of the mopars wide intake manifold I think dual under hood quads looks better on the 440 than the 454 and all other makes. Plus it pays homage to the days of more power mandating more carburetors.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: 2boltmain]
#2954974
08/18/21 10:09 AM
08/18/21 10:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
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usa
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i use a ch28 on one of my 440's with two 600 edelbrocks. absolutely without any doubt in my mind the most street friendly reliable intake system i've ever run. i'd use 750's on a big engine or at least two 650avs2's. That setup looks perfect on the mopar440. In my opinion because of the mopars wide intake manifold I think dual under hood quads looks better on the 440 than the 454 and all other makes. Plus it pays homage to the days of more power mandating more carburetors. i wanted to keep the '60's theme with the car. it's not over gadgetized with modern stuff.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: moparx]
#2955039
08/18/21 02:07 PM
08/18/21 02:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,780 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
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Holland MI Ottawa
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i have always wanted to try a ch28 with two 1 3/8" bore primary thermoquads. [800cfm ?] i know i would have to fab some offset adapters because the ones available would [i think] not allow the carbs to bolt on because they would hit each other. Offenhauser also still makes an under hood dual carb intake for the 440 with more carb spacing than the Edelbrock. But I have read the single plane Offenhauser is not as great a performer as the dual plane Edelbrock.
Keep old mopars alive.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: 2boltmain]
#2955046
08/18/21 02:57 PM
08/18/21 02:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,228
Bend,OR USA
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[quote=moparx]i But I have read the single plane Offenhauser is not as great a performer as the dual plane Edelbrock. Your correct on that Been there, done that The early Fire Power Hemi and inline dual quad wedge Mopar OEM motors came with single plane dual quad manifolds with progressive linkage, they flat suck compare to the stock 426 street Hemi motors with the dual plane intakes
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: 2boltmain]
#2955052
08/18/21 03:24 PM
08/18/21 03:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,576
KOS
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,576
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i have always wanted to try a ch28 with two 1 3/8" bore primary thermoquads. [800cfm ?] i know i would have to fab some offset adapters because the ones available would [i think] not allow the carbs to bolt on because they would hit each other. Offenhauser also still makes an under hood dual carb intake for the 440 with more carb spacing than the Edelbrock. But I have read the single plane Offenhauser is not as great a performer as the dual plane Edelbrock. I already have access to the eddy intake and carbs so its even more simple.....now what about an air grabber breather setup for 2x4?I believe spacing on the hemi is different correct?
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: lewtot184]
#2955195
08/18/21 10:51 PM
08/18/21 10:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,576
KOS
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,576
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hemi carbs are further apart. you'll probably to get a little creative. it may be possible to take the edelbrock air cleaner base and adapt it to a factory base. the manifold height for the ch28 is noticeably taller than a stock iron 4bbl, and i think about 1/2" taller than a ch4b but shorter than a ch6 or RPM intake. thx lew
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: lewtot184]
#2955326
08/19/21 01:41 PM
08/19/21 01:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,480 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,480
north of coder
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hemi carbs are further apart. you'll probably to get a little creative. it may be possible to take the edelbrock air cleaner base and adapt it to a factory base. the manifold height for the ch28 is noticeably taller than a stock iron 4bbl, and i think about 1/2" taller than a ch4b but shorter than a ch6 or RPM intake. i forgot about the CH28 being taller than the CH4B. i already have a drop base air cleaner [moroso] on the T-Quad with the 5/8" thick adapter needed for the CH4B, and the stock hood on my charger barely shuts now. i guess the CH28 is out of the question to use. i don't want to cut my hood for a scoop, so unless i can find a taller flat hood, i'm out of luck.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: moparx]
#2955342
08/19/21 02:29 PM
08/19/21 02:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,162 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,162
Benton, IL.
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Have you considered lowering the K member?
Master, again and still
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: moparx]
#2955385
08/19/21 04:26 PM
08/19/21 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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hemi carbs are further apart. you'll probably to get a little creative. it may be possible to take the edelbrock air cleaner base and adapt it to a factory base. the manifold height for the ch28 is noticeably taller than a stock iron 4bbl, and i think about 1/2" taller than a ch4b but shorter than a ch6 or RPM intake. i forgot about the CH28 being taller than the CH4B. i already have a drop base air cleaner [moroso] on the T-Quad with the 5/8" thick adapter needed for the CH4B, and the stock hood on my charger barely shuts now. i guess the CH28 is out of the question to use. i don't want to cut my hood for a scoop, so unless i can find a taller flat hood, i'm out of luck. not cutting anything up on my '65's body was a prime objective. i have at least 1/2" of clearance between the hood and air cleaner wing nuts. my engine is in the stock location. the edelbrock alum air cleaner is a no go; way too tall.
Last edited by lewtot184; 08/19/21 04:28 PM.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: lewtot184]
#2955605
08/20/21 10:01 AM
08/20/21 10:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,576
KOS
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,576
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hemi carbs are further apart. you'll probably to get a little creative. it may be possible to take the edelbrock air cleaner base and adapt it to a factory base. the manifold height for the ch28 is noticeably taller than a stock iron 4bbl, and i think about 1/2" taller than a ch4b but shorter than a ch6 or RPM intake. i forgot about the CH28 being taller than the CH4B. i already have a drop base air cleaner [moroso] on the T-Quad with the 5/8" thick adapter needed for the CH4B, and the stock hood on my charger barely shuts now. i guess the CH28 is out of the question to use. i don't want to cut my hood for a scoop, so unless i can find a taller flat hood, i'm out of luck. not cutting anything up on my '65's body was a prime objective. i have at least 1/2" of clearance between the hood and air cleaner wing nuts. my engine is in the stock location. the edelbrock alum air cleaner is a no go; way too tall. Lew any pix of your engine air cleaner setup?
Last edited by KOS; 08/20/21 10:03 AM.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: moparx]
#2955794
08/20/21 08:19 PM
08/20/21 08:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,162 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,162
Benton, IL.
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Have you considered lowering the K member? that never crossed my mind. how much would be the max ? 1/2-3/4" ? That is the range. I usually go as much as the steering column or radiator shroud will let me. If it were possible to mount your carb without the adapter (or mill the intake down that same amount), combined with the 'K' drop, it would give you over an inch of extra clearance to the hood. I have an Indy intake and Dominator carb under the Shaker on my Cuda. Dropping the 'K', lowering the radiator, using a drop base air cleaner base, and modifying the air cleaner lid was the combo that made it possible. And you cannot tell it by looking at it.
Master, again and still
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2955827
08/20/21 09:59 PM
08/20/21 09:59 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511 Temperance, MI
68 HEMI GTS
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
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Ive ran some smaller intakes on my 512. Streeter. It still ran like a bear. I went 10.95 with a ported six pack and 10.92 with a TM6 and a 4150/1050. I have a Indy single and a dominator on it currently and it feels stronger but, it’s gonna get the six pack when I put a 4 speed back in. The TM6 is surely one of my favorites for street duty.
68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780# 69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: moparx]
#2956056
08/21/21 05:28 PM
08/21/21 05:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,147 Central NC
gch
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,147
Central NC
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hemi carbs are further apart. you'll probably to get a little creative. it may be possible to take the edelbrock air cleaner base and adapt it to a factory base. the manifold height for the ch28 is noticeably taller than a stock iron 4bbl, and i think about 1/2" taller than a ch4b but shorter than a ch6 or RPM intake. i forgot about the CH28 being taller than the CH4B. i already have a drop base air cleaner [moroso] on the T-Quad with the 5/8" thick adapter needed for the CH4B, and the stock hood on my charger barely shuts now. i guess the CH28 is out of the question to use. i don't want to cut my hood for a scoop, so unless i can find a taller flat hood, i'm out of luck. Not having to use the 5/8 thermoquad adapter won't help enough?
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: gch]
#2956244
08/22/21 11:34 AM
08/22/21 11:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,480 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,480
north of coder
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not using the adapter WOULD help, but i would like to try a pair of T-quad carbs without hacking on the intake, plus use an air cleaner of some sorts other than a pair of tiny diameter ones that have only 1 1/2" thick elements. the other option would be to use my '62 max wedge intake with it's small factory [3407 ?] carbs. once again, height may come into play, as i would like a good air cleaner without hacking up my flat hood.
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: moparx]
#2956252
08/22/21 12:06 PM
08/22/21 12:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,451 Florida STAYcation
dOoC
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,451
Florida STAYcation
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A pair of Plastic Fantastics ? ... I didn’t know the from Coder was a wanna beez member of the ThermoSquad ! I had a DUAL QUAD intake for a pair of TQs ..... But it was way WAY YESTERtech ! Kinda like most of the from Puttsylvania
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Re: Intake for 500cube 440
[Re: moparx]
#2956360
08/22/21 03:42 PM
08/22/21 03:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916 usa
lewtot184
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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not using the adapter WOULD help, but i would like to try a pair of T-quad carbs without hacking on the intake, plus use an air cleaner of some sorts other than a pair of tiny diameter ones that have only 1 1/2" thick elements. the other option would be to use my '62 max wedge intake with it's small factory [3407 ?] carbs. once again, height may come into play, as i would like a good air cleaner without hacking up my flat hood. pretty sure you would need to cut the under hood bracing out to fit a cross ram with air cleaners. the plenum under the carbs of a ch28 isn't large and would take some work to get those 2 1/4" throttle bores in there. 1 11/16" throttle bores are pretty much the limit on my intake.
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