So a couple seasons back, I had a 1976 Volare set up with race suspension and was looking to trade. A guy I had dealt with offered to
Trade me an older built, but barely street driven 1970 440 HP engine. Being I only had $3300 in the car, I decided to trade. I got a bunch of paperwork and some info on the engine. Apparently it was built 19 years ago by a very reputable machine shop in my city and never really got installed in a car. It was said the previous owner has a problem with the car & it sat for 15 years before being sold to the new owner.The guy finished the car, took it out and scared himself a couple times that he now wanted amore mild engine as this was too much ‘motor’ for his needs. So I have pics of the paperwork and came with some info I could barely decipher. 440 block, bored over, Indy 440SR heads, Harland sharp rockers, TTi headers, 440-6 intake and 727 trans built for This engine. I’m thinking it might be a great motor swap in my 1970 Cuda, but not sure if it’s too much power for a fun street car or put it in another vehicle. Any suggestions?

I have more pics of the paperwork, but bad reception where I’m at. When I get home, I can load some more pics.

No better reason to spend a weekend and dump it into a current bb car and see what she does... or pop for a little dyno time.

Id pull the pan and covers for a look myself.

How much HP would 'to much" for you on the street?
Better yet how much HP have you owned and driven on the street?
If that is a stock stroke pump gas build I would expect it to make slightly less than 600 HP on pump gas tuned up well
I didn't try to read or decipher the receipts with them side ways on my desk top screen

I am only 43 so I haven't done this as long as some of you guys. But has anyone actually had a car friend that built a motor that was so powerful they took it out? Yeah me neither lol.

I would at minimum pull the pan off and have a look around before I went through the effort of installing it. I would also make sure I pre oiled it just to make sure there was no red flags there.

Here is the cam specs. Sorry I’m not up on racing specs as mostly the stuff I deal with Ian upgrades and replacement parts. Here is a couple more pics, bad load time out here. . Sorry for the pics. Out on job and no laptop til tomorrow morning.

With the specs on that cam coupled with that intake I would guess it ran like crap is why it was taken.out. Personally? I'd tear it down and see what's inside, and make sure they didn't wash down the cylinders.

Migs, come on now. Is there really even such a thing aside from building a transmission and rear end to hold up to it? It won't have too much power for the street. Heck, I'm building a 1200hp supercharged LS- based motor with nearly 1000 ft lbs of torque for my 3/4 ton, 4wd truck. I mean, it does have a throttle after all..

As long as the compression was up around the 10;1 or a little more, I'd have no worries driving that cam on the street in that combo. It would be a healthy street motor with an 850 cfm carb.

Great thread Migs.

What did I buy?
Any rebuilt engine will be around $3000 and above, depending on spec.?
If it hasn’t been dyno’ed then who will ever know it’s quality?

Seat of the pants is all well and good, if you know what a 10 second run feels like!
Sometimes a high ten can feel comfortable, other times a low ten feels really scary and loose...

Then folks say “it spins the tyres in every gear”, SO WHAT, on street tyres and slick asphalt...

But a ‘hooked up’ car on the street with 500 horses will scare the hell outta most folks...

I have built many engines for folks from ‘mild to wild’ and no one is ever happy lol.
“I expected more” for my 500 bucks rebuild (of this 78 smog motor)...
Or “[censored] me, I nearly killed myself the first time I floored it”...doh...

Horses for Courses, methinks...

Ps, don’t think a stock flexplate really says 600 horses...
Probably 450 ish...

Talking of cams...

An old mate of mine running a 440 in a low eleven 1970 Gtx bracket street-car said to me.

“I went to the Compcams dealer for a new cam and the guy told him around 550 lift 270 duration.””
“So he said to the Compcams dealer, I already run a 590 lift 312 duration Mopar cam...” doh...

Surely Compcams grinds aren’t that good...

Ps, Every engine shop build sheet runs into THREE pages...
If you look closely they even charge for ‘tea breaks’ too...

No.... the only true way to determine if that engine is really making serious horse power is by using the ages old practice of putting a $20 on the dashboard, having someone in passenger seat, and if when gunning it, the $20 dollars is his if he can grab it... If he grabs the $20, you know you were ripped !!

At least that is what I have heard

Just some thoughts.

1) No idea what pistons are in it so who knows what the CR is
2) Cam seems to be around the old DC 509 cam or the RB SSH-44 which are stout street cams probably best behind a stick on the street
3) The intake has got to go
4) Any time I have gotten involved with a rebuilt/overhauled/remanufactured engine that has sat for God knows how long in God knows where, disassembly is a good idea
5) This HP topic came up at one of our car club meetings and the consensus was that for a comfortable, pleasant street car. abut 500 hp is all that you really want

Why?

That's not a particularly big cam. Yes, it does have some decent duration @0.050", but otherwise I'd say it's probably in the upper end of what Joe-average would consider streetable, no?

The intake should give it plenty of air for street use. If that was meant to be a racing engine I would say yeah, the intake would hold it back, but otherwise, this would be fine for the street.

If anything I'd want to make sure the static CR is in that 10.5:1 ballpark figure though.

Built and tuned correctly that motor would scare most "street" guys. I take it as a point of personal pride to scare the hell out of my customers, with their engines, every chance I get. Heck if it does not scare you a little what is the point? If I build you a motor and we don't break something in the drive line then I consider that a loss. Some guys are not scared with 1000 Hp and some cannot handle 350 well. Opinions vary. With a tall deck SR motor you will have to look at your header situation for fitment. Todd

I agree. A friend on mine had a 71 RoadRunner (4000#) with him and a 440 with out of the box stealth heads 10.5:1 and used a cam similar to that one. It ran mid 11's best in the quarter. Doesn't look that bad to me. I would guess his was around 500hp.

Yep...as well as the intake & valley pan cover, timing cover too. Remove and inspect oil pump.

I agree with Diplomat, we have a similar build in our 70 Charger and it is about all you need on the street. My 2 cents

Ours with 906 heads, bigger valves, pocket ported and port-matched to the 6 barrel.
4:10s, 727 muscled up, and a 383 hi-po converter.

SSH 22 cam, (.484, 284/284) 10.25 compression, dynoed at 465 HP, 480 Tq.

Been a blast for the last 7 years.

Joe

PS we changed the pistons to a raised type to get some quench, allows us to squeeze a little more timing,
which it loves

If you’re not good with carbs, the 6bbl might be a bit of challenge to get the street manners sorted out with that cam.

Aside from that, looks like pretty standard “hot street” fare to me.

I’m sure with something like a Brawler 850 or 950 on it, it would be just fine.

I do agree with the pulling the pan idea before putting it in the car though.

With those heads on an RB block, you’ll want the TTi’s made for the raised port heads.

Looks like it’s didnt have any way to vent the crankcase.
Needs some breathers.

If it were me, I would pull it completely down and inspect everything!

It only costs time and the price of a gasket set.

I bought an engine that looked great and had been rebuilt recently. Thought I was good to go. Pulled a piston and rod to be sure and the rings were broken in that cylinder...and the next...and the next...

Would have been a PITA had I installed it as-is. Apparently someone didn't know how to install pistons with a ring compressor.

Agree absolutely on the teardown & inspection - please do that!
Hell, I'll mail you gaskets...
I'd also want to know the CR, where the cam's degreed, what clearances are, rocker/valve sweep, etc.
I'd personally prefer a single carb : 750-850CFM & PerfRPM intake.
Obviously, the cam/induction/converter/gear/weight combo will affect street manners, and you should have a firm & realistic idea of what you want for manners.


Ran a 540-horse Street Hemi for decades, no hook on Radial T/As on the street until 3rd gear.
M&Hs fixed that but it was fun either way. Car could run 11.70s, so you had to be careful where you'd "let it out" on the street.
Point is, it was plenty, and it did scare a couple guys that got a ride.

I had a 383 like that. It ran ok, but had a weird noise in it. Pulled it down and the cylinders had never been final honed, and all the rod bearings were worn out. "Just rebuilt".

Just me, but when I buy a motor/trans I always look at it as needing rebuilt, even if it comes from a friend.

I made a 505 C.I. pump gas motor for my old street Duster, it was a 400 block stroke to 4.250 and it was bored to 4.375. I had a set of 906 heads fixed up with 2.14 intake valves with 1.81 exhaust valves and a LITTLE bit of hand porting. I put a Comp Cams solid roller that had 260 duration @.050 with .420 lobe lift on the intakes and 266 @.050 with .409 lobe lift ground on a 108 LSA , I installed the cam with the intake lobes @ 106 ATDC, 2 degrees advanced. I use a set of 1.6 ratio rockers and a low deck six pack with a set of 1970 440 automatic carbs. 1970/1971 Hemi/Six pack 6 quart oil pan with a home made crank scraper and a stock Mopar windage tray.
I was hoping the motor would make between 550 and 560 HP, it made 592 HP at 5000 RPM on the first pull with over 600 Ft. Lbs. torque at 4500 RPM
I did a bunch of tuning and parts testing on that motor that day on a DTS engine dyno, the best results were 612 HP at 5500 RPM with 644 Ft. Lbs. torque at 4500 RPM.
I had built a 1971 Duster with ladder bars and coil over rear suspension to race the black guys on the streets in L.A. CA, that didn't happen
I was hoping the car would run between 10.70 to 11.00 on M/T ET 315x60x15 street radials with me in it, the first pass I made with that car was 10.69 at 124. + MPH cork up with the six pack air cleaner on
I ended up swapping a bunch of parts on that motor and the final build made 727 HP with a set of Indy SR heads with Max wedge intake port sizes and a Indy 400-3 intake manifold with a early production1050 CFM Holley list # 9375 non HP carb on 91 octane Oregon pump swill, the best ET and MPH with that combination was 9.993 ET at 134.+ MPH weighing 3450Lbs . with me in it cork up with the air cleaner on and with the full 3.0 inch exhaust system on
On your deal we need to know exactly how many cubic inches and how much true compression ratio it has before we can help you get close the the power it may make.
I'm a drag racer, not a show car guy and not timid in the pursuit of power. That cam is not to big in my opinion and it will work fine as long as it is not retarded, it will probably run real well installed from 106 to 108 on the intake lobe centers
BB Mopars rule, I love whupping up on Hemi motors

I’m in the tear it down camp, seen to many pigs with lipstick on them over the years. If I’m buying or trading for a engine, unless it’s from someone I know well or can go for a ride in the car, it’s a core to me.

Mine is worthless and like driving on ice with the 275/60/15 400 treadwear radials. We have a couple of events that require "street tires" that we compete in at the track so I threw them on some old cop wheels that I have.

I like giving guys rides that had "fast street cars" back in the day. Lots of screaming like girls and hanging on for dear life. LOL! The best one was a kid trying to get video with his cell phone while in the back seat and the phone smacked him in his face because he wasn't expecting it. LOL!

I also learned long ago to point it straight before hitting the loud pedal. Even then, things happen fast on the street.

Thanks for the info guys, very helpful. I have more pics I'll be uploading. Sadly, can't seem to flip them without compressing the handwriting that makes it hard to read. Have at least 10-15 more pics.

I did just talk to the guy. He bought the car it came in, has the car untubbed and converted back to stock rear suspension so it was more drivable. He said it was too much power because he wanted something to cruise around in with his family. He also said he had a fire because he didn't know you shouldn't use rubber lines for the transmission! It was enough that he converted to a 6spd for the car. He rececently traded the car (a Challenger) for this rad rod as he felt it was more enjoyable than working on the other on.

So the 440 was to powerful for the street and he wanted something the family could cruise in? But he trades for a street rod with a big block Chevy with a tunnel ram, two fours, 14-32’s and probably two seats. Makes perfect sense.

I had the same thought.

X3

I'd definitely tear it down.

Tear it down?
Nonsense. #1 Pull the plugs. #2 Put a torque wrench on the crank and measure abnormalities in the rotational torque. #3 Pull the dizzy and intermediate, use a drill and shaft to prime the oil pump. Check for oil to the heads while rotating and measure oil pressure. #4 TDC each cylinder and do a leak-down. #5, bolt a bell and starter to it and do a cranking compression test on all cylinders. Use a borescope for lookin inside the holes. #6 pull the pan and valley tray for visual inspection. Pull a rod and main cap if you must. Look for heat marks, loose parts, etc. #7 If all is well put it back together and stuff it.

Whomever built it didn't go cheap. Indy heads and rockers (those don't look like HS), BHJ dampner, ARP, Milidon, Edelbrock, MP covers, etc. Mid-level standard stuff for many today, but this thing was built...what? 20 years ago? You have the receipts,

You tear it down and now it's off to the machine shop, new parts, upgrades, and more time and money. Inspect it like you would any used car and run it like you stole, because for the price it's practically a steal.

I asked the same question. Apparently this is what he was thinking when he bought the challenger 7 years ago. 5 years later, he inherited a 1969 Firebird from his deceased bro and decided to make that the family cruiser. That rat rod is getting caged and safety gear via recommendations.

I think this motor is going to get the pan removed and check out bits. If it’s not factory rods, just going to put the pan back on, some cast valve covers and figure out what intake/carb set up will work under a stock hood and be good with it.

From this pic i would say who ever built the motor knew what they where doing. No body commented about it but the hoses coming from back of the block to the heads is to feed constant oil pressure to the heads. The big blocks have two holes in the cam that feeds the both heads but it's not continuous. Might put bore scope in the spark plug holes and have a look with out taking the heads off. Any motor sitting for a length of time can rust up.

[quote=Moparite] No body commented about it but the hoses coming from back of the block to the heads is to feed constant oil pressure to the heads. The SR and 440-1 heads both have external oiling to the shafts from Indy
Not so on the later EZ heads

Glad you weren't MY Moparteacher.

That is not a Hemi.....

Thanks for info everyone. Probably take off the pan at some point. As for rust in cylinders, it was rotated regularly til I got it, so I’m not conceded. It been in a crate and cover in that time.

What a coincidence! I'm glad you weren't my student.