Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
#2940152
07/05/21 01:43 PM
07/05/21 01:43 PM
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larrymopar360
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it's like there's no battery in truck. No power whatsoever; no headlights nothing; dead; First thing I checked was battery. Full charge. Checked battery connections and cleaned them to be sure. Not even sure if this could be problem but I removed all bulkhead connections and cleaned thoroughly (they didn't look bad...did this a short time ago). Seeing that the pos battery cable goes directly to starter relay, I replaced that with new one after cleaning all contacts. I inspected all the wires running along the inner fender along battery side and all look fine. Neg battery cable looks fine and grounded tightly. Only thing I did recently was pull dash out a little to remove speedo cable as I am replacing that. My amp gauge is already bypassed with a brass bolt through both connections from gauge and taped off with electrical tape (did that about a year ago) and it's still very tight and unmolested. I looked at fuse box and don't see a fuse that would have caused this and didn't see any that appear blown. Lastly, I got under truck and followed speedo cable routing to see if it's path is same as something else that I might have disturbed. Looks like maybe it shares a crossing with the Neutral Safety Switch wire but that appeared fine and this wouldn't cause a zero energy situation anyway. I'm lost as to what's my next step. Is there a fuse relay somewhere? I had the same situation on my Diplomat and it was a fuse relay on inner fender but I don't see one on this truck. Thanks! Larry
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940158
07/05/21 02:00 PM
07/05/21 02:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118 85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
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85086
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Check the fuseable link usually attached to the starter relay.
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: moparpollack]
#2940161
07/05/21 02:05 PM
07/05/21 02:05 PM
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larrymopar360
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Check the fuseable link usually attached to the starter relay. How do you test or tell if that is bad? I don't see anything from the relay to battery with actual fuse inside. I'll get a pic. Thanks.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940166
07/05/21 02:24 PM
07/05/21 02:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118 85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
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Looks like the blue wire that feeds the red wires. I was trying to find a replacement picture for reference.
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: moparpollack]
#2940167
07/05/21 02:31 PM
07/05/21 02:31 PM
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larrymopar360
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The wire I circled in purple? That's the closest I see to blue one.
Last edited by larrymopar360; 07/05/21 02:32 PM.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940170
07/05/21 02:38 PM
07/05/21 02:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118 85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
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yes, the orange circled wire, trace it to see if it is connected.
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940173
07/05/21 02:53 PM
07/05/21 02:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
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larrymopar360
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Black wire from relay splits to to reds. One red to bulkhead other to the white connector I already posted so I think you're onto something even though It all seems to be connected.
Last edited by larrymopar360; 07/05/21 02:54 PM.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940174
07/05/21 02:56 PM
07/05/21 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
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larrymopar360
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Hoping you can see. Starter relay is new and I cleaned the black wire well. Cleaned bulkhead connections too.
Last edited by larrymopar360; 07/05/21 03:09 PM.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940177
07/05/21 03:03 PM
07/05/21 03:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118 85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
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The one that goes into the bulkhead usually feeds the starter switch to powers the truck. Take a test light and see if you have power to the black feeder wire to check for power. See if the bulkhead wire has signs of heat damage.
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940184
07/05/21 03:15 PM
07/05/21 03:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,668 Buford, GA
I_bleed_MOPAR
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Grab the red wires and pull. If the link is burned out, the black wire will stretch.
Tim
'71 Charger 383/727 '17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car )
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: I_bleed_MOPAR]
#2940185
07/05/21 03:22 PM
07/05/21 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,871 Central Florida
larrymopar360
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Grab the red wires and pull. If the link is burned out, the black wire will stretch.
Tim ok I'll try that
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: I_bleed_MOPAR]
#2940186
07/05/21 03:22 PM
07/05/21 03:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118 85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
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Grab the red wires and pull. If the link is burned out, the black wire will stretch.
Tim
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: stumpy]
#2940220
07/05/21 05:28 PM
07/05/21 05:28 PM
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larrymopar360
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Thanks guys. You had me following the wires from the fusible link so being that the one red ones goes into bulkhead I decided to pull the gauge pod out entirely instead of just the ittle bit I did to check where I had bypassed the amp gauge. Once I did that I could see the red wire to the amp gauge had melted some prior to the amp gauge connector. There was an existing connection there but I have no idea whether it was factory or someone else had done but I remember giving it some electrical tape while I was there anyway doing the amp gauge bypass. When I wiggled it the key on buzzer started when I let go buzzer off. So that’s where the problem is there is some bare wire showing and it obviously had done a little bit of melting. Again I don’t know what this is and what would cause us to melt. I did add a 150 power master alternator about a year or so ago. This would not have caused that to happen with it? Here’s the problem junction in red wire. Just after is my wrapped amp gauge bypass and it looks fine still. I circled burn spot in orange. There's bare wire poking out top. Almost looks like there might have been some kind of factory inline fuse or something.
Last edited by larrymopar360; 07/05/21 05:38 PM.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940246
07/05/21 07:17 PM
07/05/21 07:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,396 Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
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I hear ya. Electrical problems have never been my strong suit. Back around 1976 my first car - a 70 Cuda 340, developed an electrical problem - an intermittent one. Sometimes the car would just go dead - like your scenario. I took it over to "Livonia Auto Electric" - what more do you need in a name than that? The guy called me a couple hours later & said "car's ready - 35-bucks." When I got there I asked him what went wrong. He showed me a wire under the dash & said he installed a fuseable link, which I saw. I don't know if the wire melted down like yours or why, but he said "they do that a lot - you won't have that problem anymore." Anyway, never had that problem again.
Also many years ago - summer 1968-9, we were on vacation in Michigan's UP - middle of nowhere, & our few year old 65 Ford wagon decided that when you turned on the headlights, the ignition would just cut-out - car went dead. My Dad took it to some small rural auto repair place & the guy fixed the problem. I don't remember the whole story - wish my Dad was still around so he could fill me in on the details. That same trip, one of the wheel bearings went bad too & we had to get that fixed on the road as well. Thinking back, those were problems that should have never happened on a 3-4 year old car. I've never been crazy about Phord products, & my wife's 2013 Edge is NO exception!
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940269
07/05/21 08:29 PM
07/05/21 08:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Poor connections will cause excessive resistance and heat. Wiring and connections that aren't sealed well will eventually corrode and cause poor connections. Cut out any discolored wires and by that I mean the copper strands. Solder fresh wire back together and use heat shrink with sealer to insulate it..
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2940560
07/06/21 04:35 PM
07/06/21 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
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larrymopar360
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Sunroofcuda, I'm just happy this time it happened in my driveway! I just drove the truck on a 65 mile round trip too.
Moparx I've been watching for NOS positive battery cable because I have one of the crappy ones. Can't stand them either. Look so cheap and perform cheap too.
Thanks Guitar I was wondering if the poor connection and insulation might cause this. I will repair properly! Thanks! If this particular piece was something I could replace I would but this wire comes out of the bulkhead.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940563
07/06/21 04:37 PM
07/06/21 04:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
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larrymopar360
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On a different note, I'm disappointed how quickly my Borgeson Steering Shaft got rusty. I know it's surface stuff but it's not like I leave hood open and leave it out in rain. I'm going to clean it up and paint. I also need to clean inner fenders. Always so much to do.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: krautrock]
#2940592
07/06/21 06:08 PM
07/06/21 06:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
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larrymopar360
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can you cut the broken part out, and use a solder butt connector like such, but you prob need 10g. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pco-4000ktyour alt is bypassed now so that the current doesn't run through your ammeter? it prob got burned up from charging a really low battery off the alt... Never seen one of those connecters. Interesting. Yes alternator has been bypassed for quite awhile. I connected both wires from amp gauge with brass bolt and wrapped in electrical tape. It still looks good after a year or more; no melting. Thanks all.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: krautrock]
#2940593
07/06/21 06:11 PM
07/06/21 06:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,668 Buford, GA
I_bleed_MOPAR
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your alt is bypassed now so that the current doesn't run through your ammeter? it prob got burned up from charging a really low battery off the alt...
The alternator isn't bypassed, just the ammeter. That is the current path from the alternator- comes in through one bulkhead connector, flows across the ammeter, and goes back to the battery through another bulkhead connector. Common problem on Mopar cars and trucks (at least Mopars- I don't know if other manufacturers do it the same way). The MAD Electrical link I gave him details the way to do a complete (and proper ) bypass on the ammeter. Tim
'71 Charger 383/727 '17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car )
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: I_bleed_MOPAR]
#2940601
07/06/21 06:30 PM
07/06/21 06:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
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larrymopar360
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Right just amp gauge bypassed. I swear I'll get to that correct bypass one day, with help from my brother.
Any opinions on my Powermaster 150 amp alternator causing this? I believe factory was 60 amp. Did I blow it with this "upgrade"? Guitar mentioned the poor connection and insulation may have caused the melting and that's what I'm hoping. I don't know what that connection was and if it was a factory thing. Almost looks like there was some kind of inline fuse at one time with transparent sleeve? I can't tell because it was in bad shape when I got truck. All I did was wrap it better with electrical tape.
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940632
07/06/21 07:56 PM
07/06/21 07:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,176 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Never seen one of those connecters. Interesting. Yes alternator has been bypassed for quite awhile. I connected both wires from amp gauge with brass bolt and wrapped in electrical tape. It still looks good after a year or more; no melting. Thanks all. That connector type is a crimp type, not a solder type but I do both on them for high current caring loads You will need a # 8 gauge wire crimper to crimp it properly
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/06/21 07:58 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2940642
07/06/21 08:11 PM
07/06/21 08:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
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larrymopar360
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Never seen one of those connecters. Interesting. Yes alternator has been bypassed for quite awhile. I connected both wires from amp gauge with brass bolt and wrapped in electrical tape. It still looks good after a year or more; no melting. Thanks all. That connector type is a crimp type, not a solder type but I do both on them for high current caring loads You will need a # 8 gauge wire crimper to crimp it properly Thank you!!
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940649
07/06/21 08:26 PM
07/06/21 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,094 central texas
krautrock
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Right just amp gauge bypassed. I swear I'll get to that correct bypass one day, with help from my brother.
Any opinions on my Powermaster 150 amp alternator causing this? I believe factory was 60 amp. Did I blow it with this "upgrade"? Guitar mentioned the poor connection and insulation may have caused the melting and that's what I'm hoping. I don't know what that connection was and if it was a factory thing. Almost looks like there was some kind of inline fuse at one time with transparent sleeve? I can't tell because it was in bad shape when I got truck. All I did was wrap it better with electrical tape. if that wire isn't in the direct path from batt to alt., then i don't see how the 150amp alt would've done that. i'd guess that likely it has been like that and is just now giving you problems. especially if you were in there trying to get your speed cable hooked up and were pushing wires around. i think sometime in the past, the wire got kinked, some of the strands broke and then it burned a bit.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940781
07/07/21 11:36 AM
07/07/21 11:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,668 Buford, GA
I_bleed_MOPAR
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Right just amp gauge bypassed. I swear I'll get to that correct bypass one day, with help from my brother.
Any opinions on my Powermaster 150 amp alternator causing this? I believe factory was 60 amp. Did I blow it with this "upgrade"? Guitar mentioned the poor connection and insulation may have caused the melting and that's what I'm hoping. I don't know what that connection was and if it was a factory thing. Almost looks like there was some kind of inline fuse at one time with transparent sleeve? I can't tell because it was in bad shape when I got truck. All I did was wrap it better with electrical tape. That wasn't a dig at you by any means (or anyone else). I did the bolt and nut trick on my sons Charger for several years until I found out about the MAD write-up. Very possible the alternator aggravated the situation with the increased amps but by no means was it your fault. You could actually cut the wire at the alternator (tape the harness side very well), splice in and run a piece of 10 gauge wire from the alternator to the starter relay (using a 14 ga. fusible link as seen in the MAD write-up). This would take the main load off the bulkhead and the 1979 wiring. You'll still have the original wire from the relay feeding the dash circuit. Hence my comment about taping the harness end of the wire at the alternator as it will be "hot" with 12v from the dash circuit. Wish you were closer. I'd give you a hand with it. Tim
'71 Charger 383/727 '17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car )
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940799
07/07/21 12:06 PM
07/07/21 12:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,094 central texas
krautrock
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while I was there anyway doing the amp gauge bypass. on this bypass you did. did you run a new wire from your alt output to the B+ lug on your starter relay? if not, then yes your 150amp alt could've caused that wire to burn up. most likely if the battery got low and you drove the truck around and let it charge the batt up. it usually burns up the connectors at the bulkhead. so the kink/broken strands in the wire might've been the most resistance in that circuit and why it burned up there...
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: krautrock]
#2940810
07/07/21 12:40 PM
07/07/21 12:40 PM
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larrymopar360
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while I was there anyway doing the amp gauge bypass. on this bypass you did. did you run a new wire from your alt output to the B+ lug on your starter relay? if not, then yes your 150amp alt could've caused that wire to burn up. most likely if the battery got low and you drove the truck around and let it charge the batt up. it usually burns up the connectors at the bulkhead. so the kink/broken strands in the wire might've been the most resistance in that circuit and why it burned up there... I did not do that. Thanks I'll do that. Hopefully I have an engine swap soon and a mini starter same time and will do that. Also I have bigger better battery now and have not been letting it run down. Thank you for this info. The bigger alternator is an example of fixing what wasn't broken. I like overbuilt things but I probably should've stuck with maybe 100 amps max. Larry
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: larrymopar360]
#2940836
07/07/21 01:36 PM
07/07/21 01:36 PM
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RWG75
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RWG75
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Was AFK for a bit and know ya know tin grille wiring. When it goes dark dark sometimes all ya have is headlights because not through the amp gauge or bypass that turns everything else off. volt meter at battery, work up starter relay, bulk head, gauge, fuse panel buses, fuses, loads. PO questionable wiring is standard issue on top of factory questionable wiring. When in doubt, disco loads you can't id.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: ]
#2940848
07/07/21 02:15 PM
07/07/21 02:15 PM
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larrymopar360
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Was AFK for a bit and know ya know tin grille wiring. When it goes dark dark sometimes all ya have is headlights because not through the amp gauge or bypass that turns everything else off. volt meter at battery, work up starter relay, bulk head, gauge, fuse panel buses, fuses, loads. PO questionable wiring is standard issue on top of factory questionable wiring. When in doubt, disco loads you can't id. Definitely never had headlights or any other power and jiggling the melted junction in red wire formerly to amp gauge brought everything back so definitely have issue there. Going to clean up that connection real well and hopefully holds me over until engine swap and I'll do some more with starter wiring when I'll add mini starter (as much as I love the sound of the old school Chrysler cranking). Thanks. Larry
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: krautrock]
#2940873
07/07/21 03:19 PM
07/07/21 03:19 PM
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larrymopar360
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all you need is a little 10g wire and a 12g fusible link, a few inches. solder and heatshrink and three connector lugs (alt, relay and the original alt wire which can also go to the b+ lug on the relay). with that alt you have on there i would make that top priority. it would suck to burn the bulkhead up and have to replace that stuff. Yes it would!!! Thanks all. Larry
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Zero energy '79 Power Wagon
[Re: I_bleed_MOPAR]
#2940874
07/07/21 03:26 PM
07/07/21 03:26 PM
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Right just amp gauge bypassed. I swear I'll get to that correct bypass one day, with help from my brother.
Any opinions on my Powermaster 150 amp alternator causing this? I believe factory was 60 amp. Did I blow it with this "upgrade"? Guitar mentioned the poor connection and insulation may have caused the melting and that's what I'm hoping. I don't know what that connection was and if it was a factory thing. Almost looks like there was some kind of inline fuse at one time with transparent sleeve? I can't tell because it was in bad shape when I got truck. All I did was wrap it better with electrical tape. That wasn't a dig at you by any means (or anyone else). I did the bolt and nut trick on my sons Charger for several years until I found out about the MAD write-up. Very possible the alternator aggravated the situation with the increased amps but by no means was it your fault. You could actually cut the wire at the alternator (tape the harness side very well), splice in and run a piece of 10 gauge wire from the alternator to the starter relay (using a 14 ga. fusible link as seen in the MAD write-up). This would take the main load off the bulkhead and the 1979 wiring. You'll still have the original wire from the relay feeding the dash circuit. Hence my comment about taping the harness end of the wire at the alternator as it will be "hot" with 12v from the dash circuit. Wish you were closer. I'd give you a hand with it. Tim
Facts are stubborn things.
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