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Hemi Oil leak #2939334
07/03/21 12:44 PM
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I have a Mopar performance iron block and heads. This is my first Hemi so a lot is new to me. I have an oil leak at the right front head to block area. It is a pretty steady drip like every 10 to 15 seconds when good and hot. Left bank seems OK but I do see some oil covering the bottom of the head to block area. No drips yet. I paid to have this built and was mothballed while I finished the car. Builder is out of business but even if he was I would not expect him to warranty it. From what my invoices show Felpro gaskets were used. Before I pull it apart I am asking for ideas as to what is a common source of leaks in that area and what is the best fix once I pull it down. Thanks in advance.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2939358
07/03/21 01:02 PM
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It's possible the intake manifold is over tightened. If I hadn't seen it myself I wouldn't believe it but sometimes if you just back off the bolts on front of manifold and snug them back up it can stop a leak. Water leakage is more common at that location from overtightening.

I've also seen that the intake is not sealed well across the front where it's leaking oil down the seam between the head and the block which makes it look likes it's the head gasket when it's really leaking oil from bottom of manifold. Might try and check to make sure the bolts are tight.

Last edited by second 70; 07/03/21 03:12 PM.
Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2939470
07/03/21 03:34 PM
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I've seen the early Mopar Mega Hemi blocks leak both oil and coolant with the stock finish on the decks whineytsk
Did the builder surface the decks? If not I would up scope
The stock deck finish are real rough, the ridges are deep enough to see and feel with a thumb nail down They need to be a lot smoother like stock block is up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: second 70] #2939629
07/03/21 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by second 70
It's possible the intake manifold is over tightened. If I hadn't seen it myself I wouldn't believe it but sometimes if you just back off the bolts on front of manifold and snug them back up it can stop a leak. Water leakage is more common at that location from overtightening.

I've also seen that the intake is not sealed well across the front where it's leaking oil down the seam between the head and the block which makes it look likes it's the head gasket when it's really leaking oil from bottom of manifold. Might try and check to make sure the bolts are tight.


I wish it was the intake.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: Cab_Burge] #2939630
07/03/21 10:07 PM
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Cant answer what was done. Just looking as to what is there to leak. Familiar with big blocks and small blocks, Never had a gen 2 hemi so curious what can leak oil in that area.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2939633
07/03/21 10:18 PM
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There is a oil drain back hole in the corner of each head, ( 4 spots total). Find some pic's of Hemi heads or Hemi blocks and you will see them. You need to place some sort of sealer ( like the Right Stuff) on both sides of the head gasket around these hole locations when assembling, this came from Tim at For Hemi's Only. I would bet that where your leak is.

Last edited by fuseable; 07/03/21 10:20 PM.
Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2939681
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You can add a 1/4 oz. of florescent UV dye to the oil to pinpoint the exact source, or simply spray foot powder onto the area. The foot powder works pretty darn good to indicated the oil trace. Another option is to use a smoke machine in the crankcase and watch to see where the smoke comes out.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: Moparteacher] #2939739
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Originally Posted by Moparteacher
You can add a 1/4 oz. of florescent UV dye to the oil to pinpoint the exact source, or simply spray foot powder onto the area. The foot powder works pretty darn good to indicated the oil trace. Another option is to use a smoke machine in the crankcase and watch to see where the smoke comes out.


No need for any more look for tricks. I can wipe and watch it seep out in that area between the head and block.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2939771
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Originally Posted by Moparteacher
You can add a 1/4 oz. of florescent UV dye to the oil to pinpoint the exact source, or simply spray foot powder onto the area. The foot powder works pretty darn good to indicated the oil trace. Another option is to use a smoke machine in the crankcase and watch to see where the smoke comes out.


No need for any more look for tricks. I can wipe and watch it seep out in that area between the head and block.


No pressurized oil at the front of the head.

The oil drain in each corner is just that, a drain. Most of the oil goes to the back due to engine angle on most cars.

Hard to believe the source of the leak has anything to do with the intake. First thing I would do is pull the valve cover and check head bolt torque.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: A727Tflite] #2939818
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Originally Posted by Transman
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Originally Posted by Moparteacher
You can add a 1/4 oz. of florescent UV dye to the oil to pinpoint the exact source, or simply spray foot powder onto the area. The foot powder works pretty darn good to indicated the oil trace. Another option is to use a smoke machine in the crankcase and watch to see where the smoke comes out.


No need for any more look for tricks. I can wipe and watch it seep out in that area between the head and block.


No pressurized oil at the front of the head.

The oil drain in each corner is just that, a drain. Most of the oil goes to the back due to engine angle on most cars.

Hard to believe the source of the leak has anything to do with the intake. First thing I would do is pull the valve cover and check head bolt torque.





Mine did. A hemi intake doesn't set flush on the front and rear rails and if the RTV isn't thick enough or not far enough out on the ends it will leak especially the outer corners.

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Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: A727Tflite] #2939820
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[/quote]No pressurized oil at the front of the head.

The oil drain in each corner is just that, a drain. Most of the oil goes to the back due to engine angle on most cars.

Hard to believe the source of the leak has anything to do with the intake. First thing I would do is pull the valve cover and check head bolt torque.[/quote]

I agree it is not the intake. It also is not an oil pressurized location. I have to disconnect my a/c lines to pull that valve cover. I can recheck the torque once the cover is off. If I do not see any looseness I can keep going on the tear down.

Last edited by NITROUSN; 07/04/21 12:37 PM.
Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: second 70] #2939825
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Quote
It's possible the intake manifold is over tightened. If I hadn't seen it myself I wouldn't believe it but sometimes if you just back off the bolts on front of manifold and snug them back up it can stop a leak. Water leakage is more common at that location from overtightening


No coolant in B,RB, or HEMI intakes.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2939833
07/04/21 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Quote
It's possible the intake manifold is over tightened. If I hadn't seen it myself I wouldn't believe it but sometimes if you just back off the bolts on front of manifold and snug them back up it can stop a leak. Water leakage is more common at that location from overtightening


No coolant in B,RB, or HEMI intakes.


Correct. The intake is a wedge friction fit and can be overtightened enough to put enough pressure on the head to cause a leak from the main coolant passage in front head gasket. There was a post here a few years ago with several hemi owners that had a small coolant leak at front of head and solved it just by backing off the front intake bolts.


Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: second 70] #2939873
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Originally Posted by second 70
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Quote
It's possible the intake manifold is over tightened. If I hadn't seen it myself I wouldn't believe it but sometimes if you just back off the bolts on front of manifold and snug them back up it can stop a leak. Water leakage is more common at that location from overtightening


No coolant in B,RB, or HEMI intakes.


Correct. The intake is a wedge friction fit and can be overtightened enough to put enough pressure on the head to cause a leak from the main coolant passage in front head gasket. There was a post here a few years ago with several hemi owners that had a small coolant leak at front of head and solved it just by backing off the front intake bolts.


Those heads must have been made of very poor quality to allow 1/4 bolts to warp them at 72 and 48 inch lbs. torque shruggy work
The intake mounting surface on those heads are pretty far away from the main head cores scope shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: Cab_Burge] #2939891
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Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Originally Posted by second 70
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Quote
It's possible the intake manifold is over tightened. If I hadn't seen it myself I wouldn't believe it but sometimes if you just back off the bolts on front of manifold and snug them back up it can stop a leak. Water leakage is more common at that location from overtightening


No coolant in B,RB, or HEMI intakes.


Correct. The intake is a wedge friction fit and can be overtightened enough to put enough pressure on the head to cause a leak from the main coolant passage in front head gasket. There was a post here a few years ago with several hemi owners that had a small coolant leak at front of head and solved it just by backing off the front intake bolts.


Those heads must have been made of very poor quality to allow 1/4 bolts to warp them at 72 and 48 inch lbs. torque shruggy work
The intake mounting surface on those heads are pretty far away from the main head cores scope shruggy


Known fact that due to the angle of the intake manifold face that over torquing the intake bolts can cause “the wedge effect”. But the OP is talking oil, not water. Yep, seen intake leaks, so if this thing leaks from the “T” joint down to the bottom of the head then that’s possible.
On a brand new engine, all kinds of possibilities on what could be wrong or not. We can’t rule out deck finish, etc.

Last edited by Transman; 07/04/21 04:26 PM.
Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2943631
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Started to pull the head for the oil leak. Head will be off in the morning.Observing things as I take it apart. MP iron block and heads. Questions I have.
1- On the rocker shaft stands how many dowels. Mine just has them on the two inboard stands. Outer and center did not have any.
2-Intake gasket is .060 thick. I assume Felpro. What is the best gasket? Dry or should I coat it around the ports with something?
3-Upper head studs into intake passage. What is best to seal them with?
4-Do the head bolts go into the coolant or are they blind holes. FSM makes no reference.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2943698
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Started to pull the head for the oil leak. Head will be off in the morning.Observing things as I take it apart. MP iron block and heads. Questions I have.
1- On the rocker shaft stands how many dowels. Mine just has them on the two inboard stands. Outer and center did not have any. Should have dowels for each stand
2-Intake gasket is .060 thick. I assume Felpro. What is the best gasket? Dry or should I coat it around the ports with something? I use a aircraft gasket sealer, up Hylomar works great also up
3-Upper head studs into intake passage. What is best to seal them with? A good thread sealer, Hylomar also works good
4-Do the head bolts go into the coolant or are they blind holes. FSM makes no reference.
NO on the original stock iron blocks and all the Mega and World iron blocks I've seen don't


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: Cab_Burge] #2943708
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Thanks Cab. I have Permatex aircraft sealant. Light coat on both sides around the intake ports? Wonder why they did not have dowels in all the stands? Who sells the rocker stand dowels?

Last edited by NITROUSN; 07/15/21 08:42 PM.
Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2943720
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I think the dowels are .250”, just like all the B/RB head dowels, and same as the chain cover dowels.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: A727Tflite] #2943721
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Originally Posted by Transman
I think the dowels are .250”, just like all the B/RB head dowels, and same as the chain cover dowels.


I thought they are smaller but I did not measure. I just saw that two had them and 3 did not. I will have to measure them in the morning.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2943902
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Superformance intake gasket are the best. Greg 866-925-7855

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Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: A727Tflite] #2943910
07/16/21 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Transman
I think the dowels are .250”, just like all the B/RB head dowels, and same as the chain cover dowels.


One would think they are .250" dowels but Mopars are actually a couple thou smaller. (I'm not in my shop right now or I'd measure one.)


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Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: rickseeman] #2943914
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Obviously, the builder has never put a Hemi together (otherwise how could it not have all the rocker stand dowels). I had the same oil leak as you once. Not a hard fix. Just take the head off, clean the surfaces, spray a Fel-Pro with copper coat and reassemble. Take your time on installing the intake manifold.


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Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: rickseeman] #2943925
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Finished getting the head off. Felpro 1104 gasket looks fine. Head surface has minute machining groove where the block is a lot smoother. Hot oil has to be wicking out from the return passage. I think a new gasket and some sealant on both sides of the gaskets in these areas and I should be ok.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2944500
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Finished getting the head off. Felpro 1104 gasket looks fine. Head surface has minute machining groove where the block is a lot smoother. Hot oil has to be wicking out from the return passage. I think a new gasket and some sealant on both sides of the gaskets in these areas and I should be ok.


I had the same type leeking on my MP block and MP aluminum head engine. I think you have the right idea coating the new gaskets.
I just wanted to add that I used these gaskets from Arruzza on mine and it solved the problem. I don't know if they are still available, and the bore sizes are limited to .070" over 4.250".

http://www.arruzzahighperformance.com/Parts/Parts.html

Mark



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Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: Hemi Allstate] #2944512
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Originally Posted by Hemi Allstate
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Finished getting the head off. Felpro 1104 gasket looks fine. Head surface has minute machining groove where the block is a lot smoother. Hot oil has to be wicking out from the return passage. I think a new gasket and some sealant on both sides of the gaskets in these areas and I should be ok.


I had the same type leeking on my MP block and MP aluminum head engine. I think you have the right idea coating the new gaskets.
I just wanted to add that I used these gaskets from Arruzza on mine and it solved the problem. I don't know if they are still available, and the bore sizes are limited to .070" over 4.250".

http://www.arruzzahighperformance.com/Parts/Parts.html

Mark


Thanks. Those are nice gaskets. I am at 4.500 so they would not work. At this time I am sticking with the Felpro just need to deal with the trouble spots with a little anaerobic high temp sealer..

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: A727Tflite] #2944874
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Originally Posted by Transman
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Originally Posted by Moparteacher
You can add a 1/4 oz. of florescent UV dye to the oil to pinpoint the exact source, or simply spray foot powder onto the area. The foot powder works pretty darn good to indicated the oil trace. Another option is to use a smoke machine in the crankcase and watch to see where the smoke comes out.


No need for any more look for tricks. I can wipe and watch it seep out in that area between the head and block.


No pressurized oil at the front of the head.

The oil drain in each corner is just that, a drain. Most of the oil goes to the back due to engine angle on most cars.

Hard to believe the source of the leak has anything to do with the intake. First thing I would do is pull the valve cover and check head bolt torque.





You would think. Let me share my oil leak frustration. I had same oil leak. Used three different head gaskets and still leaked. I had the engine on a run in stand so it wasn't an awful job to swap out, but still major pain. I tried sealant around the drain, coating gaskets, non-hardening sealant, Hylomar, etc. I noticed that the leak would move up the more sealant I added to the drain. So one day I was in the office shooting the bull with another mopar guy and we started sketching the oil system on the board. We drew up the pressurized passages and then started playing what ifs. So I knew there is pressurized oil in the rocker shafts. And that the rocker shaft pedestals for the supply line had holes drilled to supply the shafts. What if the front stands were drilled too? Pressurized oil could get down to the head/block interface. So I removed all the pedestals. Sure enough 6 out of the ten had oil supply holes drilled. These were aftermarket stands and I do not know who made them as they came with my box of rocks. So I tapped the holes on the non supply pedestals and inserted a set screw with sealant. No more leaks. PS, I call my Hemi a box of rocks because it was a large crate of parts that couldn't have worked all together. I ended up replacing some large money parts to finally get a running engine. It was an ebay purchase of a freshly machined engine just needing assembly so I took my chances. And partially lost. I did recover most of the parts.


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Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: RoadRunner] #2944880
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Originally Posted by RoadRunner
Originally Posted by Transman
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Originally Posted by Moparteacher
You can add a 1/4 oz. of florescent UV dye to the oil to pinpoint the exact source, or simply spray foot powder onto the area. The foot powder works pretty darn good to indicated the oil trace. Another option is to use a smoke machine in the crankcase and watch to see where the smoke comes out.


No need for any more look for tricks. I can wipe and watch it seep out in that area between the head and block.


No pressurized oil at the front of the head.

The oil drain in each corner is just that, a drain. Most of the oil goes to the back due to engine angle on most cars.

Hard to believe the source of the leak has anything to do with the intake. First thing I would do is pull the valve cover and check head bolt torque.





You would think. Let me share my oil leak frustration. I had same oil leak. Used three different head gaskets and still leaked. I had the engine on a run in stand so it wasn't an awful job to swap out, but still major pain. I tried sealant around the drain, coating gaskets, non-hardening sealant, Hylomar, etc. I noticed that the leak would move up the more sealant I added to the drain. So one day I was in the office shooting the bull with another mopar guy and we started sketching the oil system on the board. We drew up the pressurized passages and then started playing what ifs. So I knew there is pressurized oil in the rocker shafts. And that the rocker shaft pedestals for the supply line had holes drilled to supply the shafts. What if the front stands were drilled too? Pressurized oil could get down to the head/block interface. So I removed all the pedestals. Sure enough 6 out of the ten had oil supply holes drilled. These were aftermarket stands and I do not know who made them as they came with my box of rocks. So I tapped the holes on the non supply pedestals and inserted a set screw with sealant. No more leaks. PS, I call my Hemi a box of rocks because it was a large crate of parts that couldn't have worked all together. I ended up replacing some large money parts to finally get a running engine. It was an ebay purchase of a freshly machined engine just needing assembly so I took my chances. And partially lost. I did recover most of the parts.



Please explain how what you did fixed your leak. I must be missing something. Excess oil “leaks” internal are leaking to the outside - how?

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: A727Tflite] #2945856
07/21/21 11:00 PM
07/21/21 11:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
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The rocker stand oil galley is open to the headbolt. Pressurized oil is therefore on the head side of the head bolt. The head gaskets have embossing around the cylinder, water passages and oil passage, but not around the head bolt, so its easier for pressurized oil to leak out. I wish I had taken pictures. If you remove the rocker stand that is tied to the oil feed port in the head (between 5 and 7 say on the driver side), that stand will have a hole drilled to feed oil to the rocker shafts. The only two rocker stands that need, or should have the hole, are the two that line up with the oil feed holes in the block. On my stands, several had the oil feed holes. The bolts that hold the shafts have enlarged bores to pass the oil from the drilling into the shafts. Again, the other rocker stands had this too, so oil was able to pressurize these drilled passages. I think only way to understand what I am trying to explain is taking a look at the rocker stands. If the front stands have holes, then I would bet you are getting pressurized oil at the front head bolt, and since the head gasket isn't embossed around the head bolt, oil is being pushed out to the lock/head interface. I am just saying I had my engine apart three times before finding it. Once I blocked those passages in all but the required rocker stands, I had no issues.


68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project
69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed.
70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project
2023 Ford Mach 1
Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: RoadRunner] #2945939
07/22/21 09:40 AM
07/22/21 09:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,425
UPPER MICHIGAN, MARQUETTE COUN...
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NITROUSN  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by RoadRunner
The rocker stand oil galley is open to the headbolt. Pressurized oil is therefore on the head side of the head bolt. The head gaskets have embossing around the cylinder, water passages and oil passage, but not around the head bolt, so its easier for pressurized oil to leak out. I wish I had taken pictures. If you remove the rocker stand that is tied to the oil feed port in the head (between 5 and 7 say on the driver side), that stand will have a hole drilled to feed oil to the rocker shafts. The only two rocker stands that need, or should have the hole, are the two that line up with the oil feed holes in the block. On my stands, several had the oil feed holes. The bolts that hold the shafts have enlarged bores to pass the oil from the drilling into the shafts. Again, the other rocker stands had this too, so oil was able to pressurize these drilled passages. I think only way to understand what I am trying to explain is taking a look at the rocker stands. If the front stands have holes, then I would bet you are getting pressurized oil at the front head bolt, and since the head gasket isn't embossed around the head bolt, oil is being pushed out to the lock/head interface. I am just saying I had my engine apart three times before finding it. Once I blocked those passages in all but the required rocker stands, I had no issues.


I just went out and looked all 5 stands are drilled in two places. So I can see that the one fed from the cam through the stand feeds both shafts and the other 4 drilled stands. With that being said the 4 stand hold down bolts are pressurized to the block surface. When I go back together I will seal the head gasket both sides on all the stand holes along with the return passages.

Re: Hemi Oil leak [Re: NITROUSN] #2946283
07/23/21 09:16 AM
07/23/21 09:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
I used the proper drill, drilled out the passages, tapped for a 1/4-20 thread and used a set screw with sealant to plug the holes. If I recall the holes are something a bit more than 1/8" so a No.10 thread set screw wouldn't work. I felt it was a much more positive isolation than depending on sealant around head bolt holes on head gasket. But it is a bit more work.

Last edited by RoadRunner; 07/23/21 09:16 AM.

68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project
69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed.
70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project
2023 Ford Mach 1
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