My Hemi parts purchase has come down to 2 gentleman. Tim Banning and Ray Barton. Who do you like and why?

How many ET or MPH records has Tim Banning set?

The op never said he was looking to set a record so I’m assuming this will be a street performance motor. Either will would be fine. I’ve done business with Tim in the past and he answers the phone and answers questions.

Thats correct. Not looking to break any records. Just looking to pick up a paper trophy at the track once in a while. Gonna do business with one of these guys and right now i have a much better gut about Tim than Ray, but need to be sure. Building a 572 12:1 street/strip deal. Tim suggested a 590 and he seemed to be very honest as well.

How many have you set, How many for Crower, Stage V, Dart and so on
Both are excellent parts providers, machined or not

Well, the thing that's really bugging me at this point is Tim didn't have anything good to say about that Bill Mitchell aluminum block and Ray seemed to be just fine with it. Something not right with that.

Tim helps make and sells KB blocks, Ray will use what he can get as long as the customer is happy with those choices, especially on street parts

Tim did say the KB block used 1/2" main and head studs and the BM has something smaller can't remember what size. I'm just about to the point now of pulling the trigger on the KB block. It is a much nicer block no doubt. Tim would be the guy at that point.

Just curious, 590 cubes ?

Yes, 590.

I've never spoken with Barton but I have done business with Tim. Tim is A#1 in my book and a true gentleman and I'd recommend him in a heartbeat!

https://youtu.be/3lE4FFZKiYM Just one mans experience with BM products, but i think it's enough for me. I'll get the KB block ordered from Tim. As for the heads, i'm sure either guy can get me straight with the best match to my combo, but with this kind of money i want the best most knowledgable guy with the best cnc programs.

That's definatly good to here.

Tim moves the steam holes away from the sleeves so you should use his block,heads and gaskets.
I had a coolant seepage from the steam holes around the sleeves with the BM block, Victor Jr. heads and Cometic gaskets I got from Ray. He said he saw that problem more than a few times when I called him about it.

I guess opinions are like assholes everybody has one, I have had a world products aluminum wedge block in my race car for 10 years, best money I ever spent. three years ago I broke a rod and blew it up, Called BM and they gave me all the info, and specs I needed in getting it welded and repaired. Even though they had no blocks to sell me at the time.

Ok what KB block have you decided on. I keep walking by the big MM Cam KB in the garage and it is so pretty and has so much built into the block. Did you ask Tim about the blocks and what timing belt or chain it takes.The belt is expensive but works and there are other things to talk about with each builder when building a Hemi.There are options now a days. If you are building a good race motor maybe the bigger cam is good but looks like you want a good street motor. I have not heard much about the Bill Mitchell block and how much HP you can put through it. Might be fine but looking at the KB block it sure has a lot more to it. If you wonder about the KB ask Darrel Beal I believe is his name on moparts he did a lot of the work on the new KB Block. Both Ray and Tim both build good products and there are a few others that are on Moparts that build a real good hemi. Ray has more experience with Iron block and heads Super Stock Motors, Banning went to the big motors a long time ago and that is what he is best at, I have seen some awesome Dyno numbers on motors that he has built but these are NSS big cube hemi motors.

I would call Best machine and discuss your goals and let them decide the best avenue to go.
They have built tons of hemi’s and have a very good reputation... and are pretty close to you

Dave, I really hope you go with a 12:1 588 from Tim, for selfish reasons, because that's exactly my plan when I retire in a couple years.
Although either Ray or Tim put out a quality piece, Tim seems to have the edge when it comes to the pro-street combination.

We mainly talked stage v head, but he did ask me if i was gonna run a belt. I will be using a chain or gear drive. He knows i'm doing a street deal. Since i have the money and the KB is a better block, thats what i'm gonna get. No more wondering or guessing to get a good block.

Thats is nice to know. Tells me Tim is on top of these issues. Just what i'm trying to avoid.
Don: I did speak with Best a few weeks ago because i wanted them to do all the machine work. They didn't say much about the BM block and suggested that i use the Victor head. Looks like all the machining will be done on the KB if i buy from Tim.

Thank you for that.

I would suggest you give Chuck a call at BEST machine and get a third opinion.

The guy asked, i gave my opinion. You guys can get butt hurt all you want, Fact is ray has been messing with these hemi's and setting records for a long time and its who a trust to do my stuff.. He has nice stuff that he has developed, like intakes, rocker systems, and was involved in the millennium cylinder head. Im sure Tim's a great guy, but as long as ray is around i can choose to spend my money where i want too.

With the little bit of America we have left, we still have that freedom when it comes to Hemi parts. I have nothing against Ray, but Tim was a bit more free with the flow numbers and port volumes than Ray. I do believe i can't go wrong with either guy.

Known and had both Tim and Ray do work since the mid 70s. Both are good at what they do. Super Stock Hemi I would go to Ray but there are others also that go plenty fast building the smaller Hemi motors. Big Cube Hemi there are a few I like. Best Machine does do good work. Investigate everything on your build before you go ahead. What is the time line you would like to have this Hemi Built done and if see you can do that. I have not been to Rays shop in Penn State, use to see him in Toronto and Montreal. Banning shop is real close to me and that makes it quite easy for me to get work done and buy parts. I like the bar oiling system that Ray sells but you have to do cleaning on it but on a race motor that is around twice a season. Now there are other ways that oiling is done. We always put return lines on the back of the heads but most of the cars we all have are drag cars. Lots and lots of other things. Not sure what Crank and Rods Tim or Ray have suggested. I sure like the Callies Crank a lot of money but it comes to your shop looking like Chrome. Others on here have their own ideas dont be afraid to talk to all on Moparts you will learn something every day from someone.

"don't be afraid to talk to all on Moparts. you will learn something every day from someone."


^^^^^^ THIS !!!
every time i come here, something pops up i didn't know. my biggest problem these days is my memory.

Whats the realistic availability on the kb block

I have 4 years to get all the pieces, but i'm getting the heads and block asap. The cam and pistons will come soon after, then the crank and rods. I will use the Monar crank and maybe rods, Ray suggested Callies rods with a heavy piston. I dont know what piston yet, so i have no weight yet. Tim says 1 month on a block, will see.

I have not been to FHO for a while since this Covid thing has screwed everything up. I believe Tim has a wall of Stage V heads last time I was there he did and about 5 to 10 blocks after picking up one last year but some blocks might of been spoken for and one guy I knew had bought 5 himself but he likely has them already since he asked me if I wanted to buy his old motor, world aluminum block stage V heads and all kinds of good stuff that made his car run into the 830s. I do like the Callies Crank.LIke my friend and it talked about this week, so much new stuff is being figured out and new parts real good rods and cranks and pistons now even from 5 years ago things have changed quite a bit.

Dave, If you decide to get a KB block, make sure Tim has one in stock for you. From what I understand, they are NOT free flowing out the door like they told everyone they would be by now.
I'd also suggest giving Todd Marsh at Marsh Performance a call. Ask him about a KB block. 336-283-0800 Todd is also a great option for anything you need for this build.

I've only dealt w/ Ray Barton once when buying an intake manifold. He was great to deal with. They didn't have any of the single 4500 manifolds in stock, except for some "blems" that got drilled incorrectly for the 4150 pattern. He plugged the holes, installed solid threadserts in the correct 4500 pattern, and made me a hell of a deal on a manifold.
Like Ray Barton, I'm sure Tim Banning builds a good hemi and definitely knows his way around them.

Tim Ray and Todd know there stuff hard to go wrong with any off those three.

Thank you guys for the kind words. However building hemi engines, myself and Ray Barton do not belong in the same sentence. I am a piker compared to Mr Barton on building hemi engines. I talk with Ray pretty often and if anything I know my place. Yeah we have done some pretty nice hemi's along the way but last I checked my hemi count is probably less than a tenth of Rays.
Todd

I have nothing against FHO but I call Ray. He has built 100's of the engines you are describing. The amount of experience he has is ridiculous.

Both Ray and Tim Honed their Hemi Craft in Toronto. Ray use to be in the back of Knob Hill Speed and Custom on Eglinton Ave in Toronto and Tim was in the head department in Entec in Toronto. Really back in those days 70s you went to othesr in Toronto to have your Hemi build by Beatty and Woods. Donny Cloake, Frank Elliotte Garry Van Stone, Bob Braby on and on there were a lot of good builders back then. Ray fine tuned his Super Stock build starting with Donny MacCallum, Donny was first in the 8s, Tim had two professions before he started FHO full time. Tim and others revamped KB because there was no Hemi Block of any kind available back a few years. Tim years back started building mostly bigger cubic inch Hemi motors. At one time Tim had a 500 CI 14 71 Blown Hemi in a Cuda making stupid HP. Ray raced a 1965 B Body for a while I believe. Ray and Tim both know each other very well both sell each others equipment that they have designed for the Hemis. Both have built plenty of Hemi motors since both have been doing this since the 70s. There are other like Todd that build a good product. Make an educated choice on who you pick. All these guys build good Hemis and all are busy doing that.

Like i mentioned earlier, both guys could get the job done, but Tim deals with more street stuff than Ray by the sounds of it. Tim is more free in passing info too, so think i'll call Tim back next week and get these heads ordered and get more info on the KB blocks.