Do any of you all have any experience with this. My son has building lot in a subdivision that on the lot next door, a contractor has moved the property line marker at the edge of the street in a ditch ( a steel rod ) about 10 feet and put in a additional length of culvert. So now his driveway goes onto our lot. I think this is easy to prove with a survey, but my question is if he doesn't want to fix this, how do you force him to fix it. We've called him and so far no response. The local zoning dept is no help. Thanks in advance.

Hate to say it. Attorney, lawsuit, court will compel him to fix it.

I'd get a survey done (will likely have to be done on your dime). Then call a layer that specializes in real estate stuff.

You have someone on your property moving survey markers and digging things up. You call him? You should be face to face dealing with this. The one thing that could be in his favor is he is working within the city, state or county utility right of way which is not your property. I know on my county road it is 33 feet from the center of the road. I would find out and then deal with it. Once past the right of way he has no business on your property.

Yes we have called him several times. We just discovered this and will give him a few days to contact us. The marker is in a utility easement, but his driveway is clearly on our property. We want to clear this up the easy way and talking to his is what we prefer. I'm just asking now, in case he doesn't cooperate.

Do you have a plat already? I’d show him and see if he will be reasonable. I’ve had it out with neighbors over such things and it can get ugly quick. You need to get a survey done it sounds since he moved the pin. I’d get that booked ASAP will trying to confront him with what you have now. If he’s a jerk, and you feel it’s on your land/survey proves it, you could escalate and take out the driveway gift he gave you just the same as he did to you putting it there. Depends on how you want to play it. I once planted a decent sized tree where a driveway was installed on my property. That got the message across on that one. Others got nasty when I got sick of the bs and put up a fence.

How long has this been going on?

Depending on your locale be mindful of adverse possession which may have well been their intent.

Often the time since he has been using it is factored into whether it now belongs to him.

Park a car at the spot on your side of the line and the bumper on the easement/right of way. Put a phone number on the window.

Another thing is to look at the covenants that this sub-division has. There could be clauses that allow this on the lot lines. This would be a shared access.

First things first, is the "property line marker" an official property survey pin that marks the lot line? If it is, get a copy of your local Planning and Zoning ordinance. Typically there is a section in most that prohibits removal of a property pin. In this case as removal would be a criminal matter, you file a complaint with the PD and the situation should be taken care of. If the "property line marker" was not an official property pin, then it gets stickier. In this case if you feel that the adjoining lot is encroaching on your lot you will have to have a survey performed to determine the lot boundaries and if the encroachment is occurring. If after a survey the encroachment is real, then unless there is a remedy in the Planning and Zoning ordinance, civil court is your only option. The reason I mention a remedy in the Planning and Zoning ordinance is that in my one horse town, if your neighbor installs a fence on your property, that is a violation of the ordinance and can be enforced by the PD as a criminal matter.

No help? You're a taxpayer, they work for you. I suggest you become a "squeaky wheel".

This all has been just discovered. We're planning building on our lot in the next month or 2. The lot in question has a modular home which has just been installed. The contractor isn't finished yet but will soon be. We just noticed what happened yesterday. The property marker (steel rod ) marks the corner of our lot and the other. Once we talk with the contractor, we should quickly find out how this will play out. I need to find out what law or county reg is being broken by moving the pin. This is in gloucester co. va We're attempting to contact the owner of the company and not whovever is working on the house.

Absolutely. You have to be on firm ground before you come out swinging.

There should be permits posted at the site. At least in Michigan you need them.

Buy a copy of the zoning ordinance. If they don't sell them, ask them to make you a copy of the original. I have had zoning office employees tell me it would be expensive. Asked how expensive, they said ten cents a page. I asked how many pages it would be. When they told me twenty pages, I told them I could afford the two dollars. Zoning boards often hate to give you information you need. Don't let them get away with it. I have gotten zoning maps and full copies of zoning ordinances everywhere I rented or owned property. They work for you, even though they think they don't.

Start taking pictures of the corner from the north, east, west and south. Pics of the marker he moved and where it was moved from. Judges like seeing lots of pictures, they can make or break the case.

have a survey company come out and mark the corners. then you can defend whats yours without any questions. they will be trespassing from that point forward. post it and enforce that.. after you do this, you can try the friendly way first.....

I would be reading the easement, too. Just in case.

The formal survey and attorney may be your only real route if the neighbor doesn't want to keep it friendly.

Go to your county's website and find the GIS (geographic information system) link. Many counties have your property lines mapped and you can see them overlaid on maps.You may be able to see your property and the state/county right of ways. There is a lot of information that is public record that you can find by doing some research.

Thanks for all the responses.

So we went out there this evening and did some measuring between the marker pins. The pin in question has definitely been moved about 19 ft. due south and by doing so, they have added about 20 ft of additional culvert. The gravel driveway, which is kind of roughly put down, goes over the property line maybe a foot. This is based on the flags around the trees and where we think the corner maker was at.
So now the issues are the marker pin for the corner of the lot has been moved about 19 ft to allow them to put in another section of culvert, and the new culvert crosses out property line by about 10 ft (this happens in the utility easement ) See the attached sketch which sounds the pin that has been moved due south, parallel to the road. While we're waiting on the contractor to respond, we're consulting with a lawyer. I can't seem to rotate the image. In what is shown the pin has been moved to the right. Our lot is #7, there's is #8

Subdivision. Read the covenants. He also may not be able to construct a certain distance to the property line. If he is encroaching your property he has to fix it on his dime.

good point. Building restriction line. probably 10 or 20 ft.

Where would you be putting your road?

Our driveway is already installed on the other side of the lot

No way in a subdivision like that that he doesn’t have his own access to the street. You wouldn’t have a neighbor easement issue in a place like that.

Moving a marker pin isn't normal so I'd focus on that. That map you have seems pretty clear so double check to make sure that it is the "official" map that was filed with the city or county when the subdivision was approved. There should be a surveyor name on the map and the developer who laid out the subdivision should know where everything is supposed to be. Subdivisions are laid out by engineering firms who keep records and everything is filed with the city or state. Everything is permitted and filed and checked off when a subdivision is put in so there will be plenty of records. All you are going to need to do is follow the paper trail on where the pins should be and where the driveways should be.

A lawyer could be useless unless he knows something about subdivisions. If it was me I'd start with the developer who laid out all of the lots and see how they wanted things done. That is the plan that everyone should be following. Moving pins and changing land boundaries isn't allowed unless the proper paperwork is filled out.

And in a case like this it is always best to assume that it was an honest mistake. Give the guy plenty of room to fix his mistake, especially if the map is clear. I wouldn't get a lawyer involved up front, just get the pin moved back to where it should be and go from there.

Drainfield Area??? Is this an area that cannot be built on? If so, the neighbor has a lot with very little real access, but then again so do you. Property line should be followed, though. You might give a guy a foot mistake, but 19' is on purpose...

First, call and report this to the building department and ask them to investigate/pull his permit.

Measure the length of the property bounty from the other corner and paint a line where the marker should be located.

The building officials will have a lot to say....

If the city/town won't do anything go higher up or get a lawyer involved to push them. The contractor shouldn't have moved the marker. Maybe there's more going on then you know.

I have someone from the county environmental office going over there to check it out and talk to the owner. We've also typed up a certified letter stating our concerns and have CC'd our lawyer. Also should have a surveyor there, hopefully this week. I'll update as it evolves. thanks

Brian

------ this is easy. have it checked/ surveyed and then whats yours is yours. you can legally notice them to keep out and the police can enforce it. this is not hard to do. its private property and they dont own it..........

If the guy is being a PITA, let him build it then have zoning show up and make him remove it. Nothing hurts more like hitting him where it counts.

I'd be hesitant to go this route. All the building official has to ask is how you became aware of the problem and when the answer is "we knew before he started but we didn't stop him until now", that isn't going to go well.

What he is doing is theft... plain and simple. take your survey map/Deed to the local Zoning clerk and make a formal complaint.

Which really drives home the seldom mentioned point here. "time is of the essence", and its not on the OP's side.

Made some major progress yesterday. I went to the county offices to find someone to get involved. First building inspection, the head guy wasn't there, so headed to the zoning office. They listened to me, made a copy of the plat and said nothing we can(won't) do. They recommended I go to the environmental enforcement office. These are basically the 3 offices that you deal with getting permits to build a house. I talked to the guy who I've already spoken with who deals with the land disturbance permit. He's a former surveyor and knows the contractor. Seems like a standup guy. He went over there and checked several pin locations and basically agreed with what I've saying that somethings going on here. He's getting the contractor to re-survey the lines and will move the new culvert if necessary.. Also will get any equipment moved off our lot asap. We'll see how it pans out. They will also get our certified letter today. So there're getting it from 2 directions. The contractor nor the technician from the environmental office are straight up saying the pin has been moved. And I'm not shocked about that since it's a crime. As long as we get what we want, all good. The deal is here is that the county still has an open permit for this lot, so they have leverage. Leverage that I don't have, until the lawyer starts on them. We'll see.

That looks like good progress, except I would like have the scoundrel that intentionally moved the iron rod held accountable, just on principles, and it be mark on his professional reputation, but then, I'm not the average person?

We had our 2 acre lot surveyed and they found every pin and marked them with a wooden stake. Next day three of the stakes were throw in the street from a neighbor who wasn't thrilled about where they were. I paid to have the three pins relocated, then cut down every single tree along that 300" stretch. Told him to try and move that.

Hope it works out, neighbor sounds like a real peach.

Good one. it would many years to erase that line.

The neighbor is a modular home installer and has put many homes in our county. The home in question is a couple weeks from completion and I'm sure it's already sold. So they are 100% off our property, But the newly installed culvert is in front of our lot by about 10 ft. No ones lot includes the ditch that the culvert is in. I'm in process figuring out who owns the ground the culvert is installed. It will removed one way or another, but I need to do it before they close on the sale so this issue doesn't fall onto the new homeowner.

Great idea. Check the county website

I had a 48x36 pole barn/garage built...a neighbor who (lives across street) didn't want it to be built because it would block the scenic view of nearby woods would surely have waited for me to build and then raise hell (another great idea IF you are right about lot lines). I used the County GIS 'parcel viewer' to verify the property lines. A county employee told the builder that the lines shown on the viewer are accurate to within 2 feet. Didn't hurt that the next door neighbor was the local property tax collector. She knew the property lines very well.

Interesting day here, made me think of this post.

Neighbor whom I’ve never met spent the past week trying to undermine me on my new fence. Fronted to fence company he was “100% putting one in” and wanted to match what I was doing. Guess he called around until he found my people. I took the keys here a couple weeks back.

Company called and asked if it could be set up a few inches so it could be weedeated easier at his request. “Since he was matching what I had and all.”
Today he tried to cow the installer into not putting it where I wanted since it made his lot tight. When that failed, he called the city on me.

Finally he introduced himself and tried weasel words to get me to restrict myself. Nice to meet you I said. Finished installing where I laid it out in couple more hours.

His “wife won’t let him put one in.” I had asked where he was doing his. Pretty elaborate rouse to do recon on what I’m up to.

Turns out another neighbor had their invisible fence installed well onto my ground. Probably a foot or more. They even had to come up onto a slight bank to get there, like a natural little boundary they crossed. They were lucky this crew was able to fix the line or they’d be doing without.

Two neighbors. Both said “nobody here does surveys before they buy.”

Well I’m not from here. That was done right away so I could back out over encroachments.

Just wanted to add something that may save you some money. If you still have all the original paperwork from when you bought the house or land, chances are a property survey was performed at that time. It was probably ordered by the bank or financial company if there's a mortgage. Perhaps the title company has a copy since they usually will never grant title insurance without a recent survey or an update with a certification. You wouldn't have known about it unless you scrutinized the bills at the closing, but you paid for it. Sometimes a copy of the survey itself will be given to you. It will have the surveyor's name or the engineering company that does land surveying. You can contact the surveyor, engineering company or the title company, & they will probably have your survey on file. It could be in the previous property owner's name with just a recertification in your name to satisfy the bank & the title company. Instead of the surveyor doing a complete new land survey, which is expensive, they can use the old one to check measurements to verify if something was moved.

Good luck.

any updates?

I think we're done here. I finally found out who owns the ditch, which is in a utility/drainage easement. It's VDOT. And they required a permit to install a culvert. The contractor who put the culvert in front of my lot didn't get one, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had ever got one. It's not clear how the permitting is enforced. So up to last week we hadn't been able to actually talk to the owner of the company. My son who owns the lot had tried every way possible to communicate with the guy without luck. So I gave it a try and got him on the phone. To make a long story short, he said putting the culvert in front of our lot was no big deal and would cost $2K to remove it. He even had the gall to suggest the future homeowner of the modular could pay for it. I finally told him if he wouldn't take it out, we would.
So this past weekend we used an excavator to dig it up and put it in his front yard, along with a big pile of dirt. This Monday the dirt pile and culvert were gone. I'd like to get some money out of him for the excavator rental and our time, but not sure if it's doable and we don't really what to invest anymore time dealing with this loser.

Keep an eye on him and the property, people like that tend to retaliate.

Or sometimes when the bully gets popped in the mouth, they turtle.

Hope this is the end of it for you VArunner. Definitely keep an eye on things.

Funny that he thinks it's big deal but I'm sure he'd think differently if someone did that to him.

Too bad he didn't correct the problem when it was brought to his attention to begin with.

We will definitely keep an eye on things. The new homeowners will be closing in a week or 2 on the modular that sits on that lot. The same company is putting in another modular directly across the street from our lot and it looks another one a little further down the road. So the workers will be around for another couple of months. I don't feel like the owner of the company will try to pull anything on us, I feel less good about his work crew. I'm not too worried about it. We have an empty lot (for now) and this guy has multiple modulars going in. We don't have much exposure, but he has a ton of exposure.........
Plus the VDOT contact says if anything happens, he will assist us if possible.

thanks guys. I appreciate the support.
Brian

That is totally not how I thought things would go down but thank you for updating us. I was genuinely interested in this post and watching for updates.

Best to you and hope it is all good from here on in.