We were at a small Chrysler dealership in Colorado on Saturday that sells mainly trucks and Jeeps. They had 4-5 of each on the showroom floor and the closer we looked the worse it got! $70,000 trucks and $50,000 Jeeps with horrible orange peel and even runs on one!

I know previous years of all makes have issues with things like tailgates looking bad but this was ALL OVER!

With robotics painting these, I fail to understand why the quality is so bad?

I know there are places out there that offer "paint correction" anymore, but how do you tell how much clearcoat has been laid down in order to cut and buff without burning through?

I agree with you. Since seeing the latest generation Rams, I've noticed body panels that look wavy under the paint, & excessive & very heavy orange peel. They all look like they have been poorly repainted with no block sanding! They do not look like OE quality finishes. On ALL of the new Rams! 2018-up - new body style only. My 2017 Ram looks great - no paint or finish problems.

Paint on my 06 Ram was terrible. Dark spots in the color coat on the roof/hood, dirt in the clear, uneven coverage, excessive orange peel, etc. Bought it new, checked with a mil gauge and confirmed no repaint, etc. Just garbage paint from the factory.

One of the first 08 Challengers I saw had lousy paint on the trunk lid. Looked like the clearcoat wasn't very thick and the shine just wasn't there like it should have been.

I would hesitate trying to correct the clearcoat on a newer vehicle. I doubt there is enough clear to do that and expect a long lasting finish.

maybe they try to reproduce the paint quality from back in the day?

Every aspect of quality has gone down under FCA. Especially electrical. This is my observation, usually getting a new Ram every 2 years.

As long as people keep spending $70,000 for a truck with deplorable paint quality and a high probability of electrical gremlins, they'll keep making them and selling them as good enough.

I know with the charger and challengers its because they are painted in a very old paint shop and they wont invest in a new one as its in the upper hundreds of millions or something. Not sure about the other cars/trucks as some of those factories have brand new paint shops.

I don’t think this issue is unique to FCA. I have a 2017 Shelby GT350 Mustang that has the same issues, orange peel in the paint and what appears to be some paint imperfections due to debris. I’m on the Mustang boards and everyone complains about the paint quality on these newer Ford cars.

I wound up taking the car to a detail shop and they did paint correction and ceramic coat and now the paint looks awesome but I think it is ridiculous that one needs to do this given what these cars cost new. Beside the obvious paint quality control issues I wonder how much of this is due to the type of paint they are using these days. I know Ford is using the water based paints, not sure about what FCA is using.

Unless it’s so obvious under a test drive , the excitement of buying a new car or truck

How many people when purchasing a new vehicle , are asking to take the vehicle home for an inch by inch inspection bottom to top

On my 11 Ram 1500 I didn’t notice some of the blotches in the hood until it was in perfect light in the garage

Then you take that chance of mismatched paint , fighting with FCA , or even worse paint through your local dealer under warranty


Honestly I know a lot of people could care less - When your jumping into someone else’s brand new vehicle and your feet never hit the floor because of all the garbage , enough said

Maybe an experienced Bodyman can correct me, but, a certain bit of orange peel is needed for paint durability.

For the environmental hoops they have to jump through, and the learning curve of being forced to use water-based paint, I think the manufactures are doing exceptionally well.

My '01 Ram is all original and there are spots under the lower body lines where the coverage is noticeably thin. My '07 Ram is also all original and has way better coverage. The '07 should be around the switch to water-based and it does have more orange peel than the '01.

Looking at new Chargers, Rams, Jeeps and Fords, I notice the paint quality is exceptionally smooth. Almost to the point where it looks like the quality is getting closer to wet sanded and polished show cars. The colors are richer and more vibrant too. Overall, I'm impressed with what is going on with today's colors and paint finish.

Maybe it was a Monday morning paint job.....those pesky robots must have been out partying all weekend. I am surprised they even showed up for work.

My 92 D150 had thin paint on the passenger side door and area behind it and the roof and hood had to be repainted when I first bought it they did it no charge, the door and panel I had touched up a few years ago. I have tried to baby my 08 H.Q.C. I siliconed the inner fender holes and washed and waxed it all the time and hardly ever drove on the salty roads two years ago I started getting the rust bubbles over the passenger side rear wheel and now the other day I noticed them on there drivers side I guess I can't complain as the truck is 12 years old even if it only has 56,000 miles. I really wish Ram still made a short bed regular cab! I am thinking of getting a new truck but mine still looks good , its paid for the rust isn't really noticeable I just got a compliment on the truck the other day.

Orange peel is unrelated to durability. It's a paint imperfection caused by a few different things. A certain amount of orange peel has been deemed acceptable for mass produced vehicle, but it's still an imperfection.

They must have come from different plants, then. ALL of them, despite the shade or color, looked very similar to the surface of an orange. It was some of the worst paint I have ever seen. Looking down the side of one Jeep almost looked like it was painted in one of those little shops in the bad part of town where they shoot it in the driveway! The closer we looked the worse it got.

Most people do not keep their car clean enough, often enough to notice the paint issues. The one thing that is always glaring to me is how the plastic bumper covers do not match the metal panels color wise. It's 2021 for Goodness sake. Can't they figure out a way to paint different materials and get them to be the same color?

Ha! I recall looking at a new red Corvette on a showroom floor back in the late 90's and the rear bumper was a full 3-4 shades off of the rest of the car!

Bumper covers often don't match. Some do, but many don't, and there's a pretty wide range of how bad the mismatches are when they exist. We take pictures of the mismatch before we have a car repaired, so that when the customer comes to pick up the repaired car and cries that the bumper doesn't match, we can show them that it didn't match before, either.

56,000 miles I'd do the body on it or find a southern box

I have no issues with the paint on my charger. Then again it's white so it's hard to notice issues.
A lot of new cars have orange peel problems. Imports and domestic.

That happens because it's a different material. I used to work for a tier 1 company here in the Detroit area - the company used to be Creative Industries, was bought out by MascoTech Special Vehicles, then turned into MSX International in the mid-90's. I worked there from 1994 to late 1997. We painted ALL the first gen Vipers, & all the Prowlers. We were a HUGE paint operation. We also built some concept vehicles for Ford. We had huge programs with both Chrysler & GM - we would paint a lot of their show cars. I remember a Cadillac STS or similar model with a new candy red color for the upcoming year. Paint department painted the entire car, including the fascias out of the same batch, same day, same booth. When the car was assembled, the fascias were WAAAAAY off - they did not match at all. Thus began a long series of custom-blended versions of that color until they finally got it almost the same as the rest of the steel body! It was pretty unbelievable what they went through to get a match. Think about it - the paint was baked in our booth, & the plastic of the fascias reacted very differently than the steel body - and that affected the curing & characteristics of the paint.

I worked in shipping and post production for Toyota for years. You’d be surprised what is considered passable in their books, I’m sure it’s similar at other companies. We’d commonly be told that even though we were at greater than the standard of “3 feet or 30 degrees” it didn’t matter because the defect was “customer acceptable anyway.” Some of us joked that 3 and 30 was a rough guideline.

I saw cars with bumpers with almost no paint, fisheyes, you name it. That doesn’t even count the ones our guys wrecked. On site body shop took care of almost all of those. Except one that got wedged in a train car and took about three hours for a wrecker to pull out. That one got crushed.

One black car I’ll never forget had such a nasty spot right above the wheel going up to the c pillar. Another guy looked at it and said no way they will take that back. So I messed with it until they couldn’t deny doing something and made the call. Was total bs to go out as it came off the line. Got the car back and they got the spot out, unless you looked from an angle and saw the huge swirl marks from the buffer...

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That happens because it's a different material. I used to work for a tier 1 company here in the Detroit area - the company used to be Creative Industries, was bought out by MascoTech Special Vehicles, then turned into MSX International in the mid-90's. I worked there from 1994 to late 1997. We painted ALL the first gen Vipers, & all the Prowlers. We were a HUGE paint operation. We also built some concept vehicles for Ford. We had huge programs with both Chrysler & GM - we would paint a lot of their show cars. I remember a Cadillac STS or similar model with a new candy red color for the upcoming year. Paint department painted the entire car, including the fascias out of the same batch, same day, same booth. When the car was assembled, the fascias were WAAAAAY off - they did not match at all. Thus began a long series of custom-blended versions of that color until they finally got it almost the same as the rest of the steel body! It was pretty unbelievable what they went through to get a match. Think about it - the paint was baked in our booth, & the plastic of the fascias reacted very differently than the steel body - and that affected the curing & characteristics of the paint. [/quote]


i am a PPG certified painter with about 40 years of experience.

well said on different materials can give a different color from the exact same paint.
i will add a few more things that can change the color.
also how the panel is positioned when the panel is painted can also affect how the metallic lays down can give you a different color.
another factor is the OEM sometimes adds a flex agent to the paint to give it a better durability. this can change the color of bumpers.
another factor most people don't realize is when the bumper is installed. it's not exactly on the same angle as the metal panel. different angles on the panel reflect light and give the appearance of a color mismatch. if they are on the same angle the color is a perfect match.

i am a PPG certified painter with about 40 years of experience.
i have been spraying water base paint for about 6 years now.

in my opinion water base paint is actually easier to use than solvent born paint. it's also faster drying, has better durability and there are more consistent color matches with it. also. the paint it usually 30% or more cheaper than solvent. the top coats used with it are more $$$ so it evens out in the end.
the biggest problem with it is your facility must be set up for it to use it properly. you will need airflow enhancers and extremely dry compressed air to use it properly. you also can't use cheap spray guns when you paint it.you get the best results when using guns designed for water base paint.
my biggest complaint about it is dirt in the paint and correcting them. correcting dirt in the base coat is extremely difficult in the painting process compared to solvent paint. also the techniques required to spray it create dirt in the paint problems
.
as far as it's hard to spray, i took a 1- 8 hour day classroom class and a 4 hour day in shop class with PPG on painting water base paint and i was good to go. it was pretty much the same as solvent training.
spraying water base requires techniques almost 180* opposite of solvent paint. sometimes it gets difficult because you still use solvent undercoats and top coats with it.

My 2010 Dodge pickup is that Austin Tan. The gloss is good, there is minimal orange peel. The only thing that is sketchy is that in direct sunlight the metallic is mottled. But it's stood up well, I can't complain. It isn't like the late '70's GM products that used the first generation water based paint that came off in sheets.

The heavy orange peel comes from the subsurface coating on new vehicles. It's almost like a fiber type materiel and very thick, not like a primer or e coat. I noticed it years ago working in body shops. You can't spray smooth paint and clear if the substrate is course.

So why do they use those coatings? Sounds quite different than a heavy-build primer, which you block the heck out of to get it level. Can't you block the fiber material? Or does the color coat go right over the fiber coat after it is sprayed?

paint falling off cars happened during the 90's early 2000's cars.
i have repaired THOUSANDS of GM de laminating paint cars.
water base paint had nothing to do with the paint falling off.
there were multiple reasons why the paint fell off GM and several other manufactures cars, the biggest reason is they didn't put enough paint on the cars. the UV light from sunlight penetrated thru the color to the E coat and attacked the chemical bond between the 2 layers of products. this caused the paint to fall off.

Silver and blue/silver would not last long in the late 70s and early 80s. I had a light blue 77 Cordoba that the paint fell off of. And I mean fell of. Beautiful car when the paint was good. But I didn't get 5 years out of the paint. Seen a lot of other cars and trucks with those colors with major paint problems. And the manufacturers certainly would not stand behind their failures.

Well, many of us remember the 70-71 Plum Crazy cars from way back when they were only a few years old. That paint fell off too - separated away from the primer. Chrysler stood behind it. I spoke with an older guy back in the 70's & he told me how the paint went bad after about 3 years, & his dealer repainted the car for no charge under warranty. It did cost him a little because there was a little bit of bodywork they had to do.

Yes, the blue, blue/silver '81 and '82 Blunder Motors trucks were quite a sight all running around with black hoods in the mid 80's.

Those were the days. Best ride, best body, best drivetrain, most power, best re sale value, best fuel mileage, the best, the best, the best. They were a joke back then and still are today.

Have a blue '83 Ram and the paint is still stuck to it just fine.

Only way to get glass smooth is working each coat by hand from the primer up. OEM's can't take the time to do it so they don't.

Even high end import cars that look like they don't have any orange peel do have some if you were to run a little 2000 grit over the paint to expose it.

My youngest uncle who was the age an older brother woukd be had a yellow 1970 Barracuda slant 3 speed with the white ball shifter.
It had lots of orange peel and quite a few runs.
My almost F8 1994 Ram 2500 diesel was splotchy Nd the clear went to crap even washed and waxed plenty.
And the brakes were okay not great. They never ever got the Brake light t9 go out on th anti lock. They said we fixed it but took the bulb out
Trans at 80k. Ball joints wore fast but got 28MPG HWY. Empty.

I once went to inspect a blue Dodge Dynasty. The owner reported that her car had been vandalized. I drove to her house, and the car was surrounded by sheets of paint that had peeled off of the car, like a vegetable peeler would do to a carrot or cucumber. Strips several inches long and a few inches wide, all over the ground around the car. Primer underneath looked like new, except for one nickel-sized spot on the roof that had been exposed to UV rays for some time. One of the weirdest things I've ever seen.

My dad had 86 (blue) and 91 (white) Chevy Astros. Paint delaminated badly on both of them.

Well that is disheartening to learn. I have a '21 Ram SSV being outfitted now (Patriot Blue Pearlcoat). Haven't put eyes on it, just gave the up-fitter the details of what I want on it.

I was on a construction project in the late '70's that had purchased about five 1976 Chevrolet products for site vehicles in that bronze metallic that Chevy had. Within two years there were huge spots where the paint had failed right down to the bare metal. When the failures were presented to the selling dealer their position was that it was due to water based paint that GM was using and it wasn't their problem. I had no personal knowledge then and have none now, just repeating what was said.

I have heard it's like that all over.

My friend who works in a GM plant says the paint "repair" area in the plant is usually overrun with work, super busy and can't keep up.

Even robots can't seem to get it right all the time.

Mine might be the exceptions, have a 2017 challenger and the paint is very nice and has held up well daily driving it for all but 1 year, the panel fit is good on it too. the car is grey (forget the name) i just bought a 20 challenger (black) and the paint and panel fit is equally as good on it. I didn't look at a bunch of cars before buying either, maybe i got l lucky. Also have a 09 challenger that the paint and panel fit is nice. when we bought that car the first one we looked at the paint was bad. All 3 of these we bought new,

Stand back and look closely at your car's bumper covers to body paint contrast when they are clean and in the sunlight. I have yet to see any Challengers/Chargers/300s where the bumper covers matched the body.

Well, we've had 2 new Challengers: a 2012 R/T Classic, & now a 2016 PCP Scat Pack Shaker. Paint was/is great on both of these, AND the fascias match very well!

The 2018-newer Rams (the NEW style) is a whole nother story though! Go check one out at a dealer if one is clean. Almost looks like they have a bumpy anti-chip coating & then painted over with the finish. They are shiny & all, just look like they were never blocked after a real bumpy primer. They are ridiculous.

Why did the clearcoat peel off so badly on mid 1990s vehicles?

Was it the fault somehow of the clearcoat
or of the base coat
or of prep or application?

Happened on my '87 Lebaron. Chrysler repainted it from the beltline up and it held up well until I let it go in '03.

i repaired thousands of these cars.
there were multiple reasons why the paint fell off.
the biggest reason why is they didn't put enough paint on the cars. the thin paint allowed the UV rays from the sun to go thru the paint directly to the E coat. this broke down the chemical bond between the 2 products and caused the paint to fall off.
this happened on several manufacturers cars, GM cars were the worst of the lot.

I recall seeing a brand new Beretta come to the little grocery store where I worked. A huge sheet of the paint had blown off the roof!

I worked at a Chevy dealer and we got a list of vin numbers for brand new white colored S-10 pickups that we had to round up so they could go to the body shop to be repainted.

We were told the paint mixture used was potentially defective, and that it needed to be redone to ensure the glass didn't fall out if the paint let go and get GM sued over it. Wow.

I had a 90 chev pick up that i bought in 1991, it was white and the paint on the roof and hood starting falling off. Had it fixed and never had another issue with it the 25 years i owned it. the primer seemed to be adhered well, just the paint wasn't, only on the roof and hood too for some reason

I'm aware of the color contrast of the plastic versus steel. yes they are not the same color . I didn't think that had anything to do with FCA

Some manufacturers have struggled with this more than others have. And sometimes it is more apparent on some years and on some models more so than others. A good match between plastic and metal can be done. But not all manufacturers seem to be able to do it. In my experience, our LX cars are among the most noticeable.