Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: A70Runner]
#272715
03/31/09 08:37 PM
03/31/09 08:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 302 Casa Grande,Arizona
DennisJ
super street
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super street
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 302
Casa Grande,Arizona
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What about the part in the rule book,that says the seat has to be attached to the roll bar? How do you do that with a factory type seat?
Dennis Jokela
I started out with nothing,and I still have most of it.
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: A70Runner]
#272716
04/01/09 01:17 AM
04/01/09 01:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,213 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,213
Bend,OR USA
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I have stock high back seats in my Duster(10:40 ET), it has been through tech at a bunch of different tracks for Pro ET and I have never been bounced or informed that I had to change the way my shoulder harness is mounted or used. It mounts to the bar behind the seat and drapes over the seat with no holes in the seat and no bracing to the seat I wish sometimes that I had made a hole in the upper cushion for the shoulder harness to feed thru but I didn't If yours is a stock seat in a car that does not require a racing seat then check with your local tech before cutting the seat up
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#272722
04/01/09 11:44 AM
04/01/09 11:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
I have stock high back seats in my Duster(10:40 ET), it has been through tech at a bunch of different tracks for Pro ET and I have never been bounced or informed that I had to change the way my shoulder harness is mounted or used. It mounts to the bar behind the seat and drapes over the seat with no holes in the seat and no bracing to the seat...
Same thing w/ my Challenger.
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: BradH]
#272723
04/01/09 02:32 PM
04/01/09 02:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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I've been a seat engineer/test engineer for more then 10 years. Here is my opinion. First, the shoulder belts absolutely should come through the seat. Wrapping them around the sides is very unsafe, because as mentioned they could slip off your shoulders during a crash. Second, the crotch strap is very important also. The reason it is there is to keep you from "submarining" as we call it. The lap belt needs to stay accross your hips. Some impacts can cause you to slide down under the lap belt. When that happens your internal organs take all of the load instead of your hip/pelvic bones. Not good. On modern seats we do a lot of testing to ensure that the occupant does not do this, but I wouldn't trust 40 year old technology to keep you from going under the lap belt. Last. I feel that there is nothing wrong with using a factory seat in a race car. The seats are heavier then an aftermarket race seat, however the attachment is much more robust also. The lap/shoulder belts take the large majority of the load that the seat see's. When there is a crash, the floor deforms quite a bit in an un-occupied seat. With the belts/driver in the car, the belts actually hold the seat in place. It never gets near the deformation of floor needed for seperation. Anyway, just my
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: dizuster]
#272724
04/01/09 03:41 PM
04/01/09 03:41 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,213 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,213
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
I've been a seat engineer/test engineer for more then 10 years. Here is my opinion. Second, the crotch strap is very important also. The reason it is there is to keep you from "submarining" as we call it. The lap belt needs to stay accross your hips. Some impacts can cause you to slide down under the lap belt. When that happens your internal organs take all of the load instead of your hip/pelvic bones. Not good.
Bob Lambeck crashed his 1972 Pro Stock Duster at Orange County Raceway in CA. in 1972, the car met all of the tech requirements at that time. It had a four point harness in the car and a fibreglas "race"seat that was properly braced in the car, he slid out of the seat(submarined) and harness and was push up under the dash and trapped thier. He broke one of his hips as well as other dameges , I thank that accident may have help make NHRA start requiring five point harnesses instead of the four point ones I owned and flew a small airpplane for several years, the aircraft industry is very active in making passneger seats in commercial aircraft very safe, not so in the private aircraft produced up to around 1991 when the goverment passed a liability law reforming how long the aircraft manufacturers are liable for parts the make and sell The new small airplanes sold now have 22 G impact rated seats for all passengers and pilots
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#272725
04/01/09 09:34 PM
04/01/09 09:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil
dart_73_br
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 637
Sao Paulo, Brazil
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Ok guys, I was going to post a similar topic... I want to know if could do something to put a 5 point or 4 point harness on my Dartīs stock bench style seat ?!? Dangerous ? I want to keep it as stock as possible... will run 11s.
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: Gearbox]
#272728
04/02/09 03:13 PM
04/02/09 03:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,369 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,369
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I have factory buckets, 5 point harnesses, and a 10 pt. cage in my '70 'cuda. I do NOT have the seats attached to the crossbar and the harnesses go around the back of the seat, not through it. My crotch belt does NOT go through the seat, it loops up in front of it. I am big guy, 6'5" tall and 320 lbs, I have broad shoulders (ex college O-tackle), so the belts are less likely to slip off my shoulders. Is this safe? Probably not, but it has passed NHRA tech inspection at a couple tracks and has been cert'd to 8.50 like it sits. At the time I recovered the seats, I couldn't find an upholstery shop locally that would cut the seat for the belts to pass through them and I didn't trust myself to do it. Not saying it's the right way to do it, but it's what I did and it passed tech inspection. CHIP
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#272729
04/02/09 04:21 PM
04/02/09 04:21 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,217 Wellington, FL
cudabunch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,217
Wellington, FL
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Quote:
I have factory buckets, 5 point harnesses, and a 10 pt. cage in my '70 'cuda. I do NOT have the seats attached to the crossbar and the harnesses go around the back of the seat, not through it. My crotch belt does NOT go through the seat, it loops up in front of it.
I am big guy, 6'5" tall and 320 lbs, I have broad shoulders (ex college O-tackle), so the belts are less likely to slip off my shoulders. Is this safe? Probably not, but it has passed NHRA tech inspection at a couple tracks and has been cert'd to 8.50 like it sits. At the time I recovered the seats, I couldn't find an upholstery shop locally that would cut the seat for the belts to pass through them and I didn't trust myself to do it. Not saying it's the right way to do it, but it's what I did and it passed tech inspection. CHIP
If I was a tech and saw you crawl out of your car,I would pass it also You look taller in a photo
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#272730
04/02/09 05:01 PM
04/02/09 05:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
I have factory buckets, 5 point harnesses, and a 10 pt. cage in my '70 'cuda. I do NOT have the seats attached to the crossbar and the harnesses go around the back of the seat, not through it. My crotch belt does NOT go through the seat, it loops up in front of it.
I am big guy, 6'5" tall and 320 lbs, I have broad shoulders (ex college O-tackle), so the belts are less likely to slip off my shoulders. Is this safe? Probably not, but it has passed NHRA tech inspection at a couple tracks and has been cert'd to 8.50 like it sits. At the time I recovered the seats, I couldn't find an upholstery shop locally that would cut the seat for the belts to pass through them and I didn't trust myself to do it. Not saying it's the right way to do it, but it's what I did and it passed tech inspection. CHIP
passing tech doesn't mean it's safe. do you trust your life with it? I wouldn't.
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: Quicktree]
#272731
04/02/09 06:58 PM
04/02/09 06:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,369 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,369
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:
Quote:
I have factory buckets, 5 point harnesses, and a 10 pt. cage in my '70 'cuda. I do NOT have the seats attached to the crossbar and the harnesses go around the back of the seat, not through it. My crotch belt does NOT go through the seat, it loops up in front of it.
I am big guy, 6'5" tall and 320 lbs, I have broad shoulders (ex college O-tackle), so the belts are less likely to slip off my shoulders. Is this safe? Probably not, but it has passed NHRA tech inspection at a couple tracks and has been cert'd to 8.50 like it sits. At the time I recovered the seats, I couldn't find an upholstery shop locally that would cut the seat for the belts to pass through them and I didn't trust myself to do it. Not saying it's the right way to do it, but it's what I did and it passed tech inspection. CHIP
passing tech doesn't mean it's safe. do you trust your life with it? I wouldn't.
Did I say it was safe? No. In fact I said it's probably not safe. Do I trust my life with it? No. I don't trust my life with anything I drive, even if I'm surrounded by airbags. You're still gonna die if the crash is bad enough. CHIP
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#272732
04/02/09 07:05 PM
04/02/09 07:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I have factory buckets, 5 point harnesses, and a 10 pt. cage in my '70 'cuda. I do NOT have the seats attached to the crossbar and the harnesses go around the back of the seat, not through it. My crotch belt does NOT go through the seat, it loops up in front of it.
I am big guy, 6'5" tall and 320 lbs, I have broad shoulders (ex college O-tackle), so the belts are less likely to slip off my shoulders. Is this safe? Probably not, but it has passed NHRA tech inspection at a couple tracks and has been cert'd to 8.50 like it sits. At the time I recovered the seats, I couldn't find an upholstery shop locally that would cut the seat for the belts to pass through them and I didn't trust myself to do it. Not saying it's the right way to do it, but it's what I did and it passed tech inspection. CHIP
passing tech doesn't mean it's safe. do you trust your life with it? I wouldn't.
Did I say it was safe? No. In fact I said it's probably not safe. Do I trust my life with it? No. I don't trust my life with anything I drive, even if I'm surrounded by airbags. You're still gonna die if the crash is bad enough. CHIP
sorry Chip but if I didn't trust my life in it, I wouldn't drive it. 9seconds is way to fast to be taking any chances.
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: Gearbox]
#272733
04/04/09 11:36 AM
04/04/09 11:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI
dizuster
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
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Quote:
I'm also at the point of buying and installing a 5 point harness into a stock bench seat application. I was going to weld tabs to the crossbar, just behind my shoulders, as for the crotch strap have not figured that one out just yet, should I weld a plate to the stock floor with a Tab, then wrap the belt up the front of the bench seat? or have a hole cut in the upholestry. Any suggestions on the best belt to buy for a NSS type application. Thanks.
Plate the floor is fine. But make sure that you cut a hole in the seat for the crotch strap. The point of it is to keep you upright in a crash. If it's too far forward, it will allow you to slip down and you could get hurt as mentioned above.
Quote:
Did I say it was safe? No. In fact I said it's probably not safe. Do I trust my life with it? No. I don't trust my life with anything I drive, even if I'm surrounded by airbags. You're still gonna die if the crash is bad enough. CHIP
You are right if the crash is severe enough, there is always a probability that you could die. The idea is to maximize your chance at life under all circumstances.
What about a less severe crash? What about the broken axle 90 degree turn low speed head on starting line crashes? Even if you hit the wall at 35mph you might see a 20g load. 320lbs x 20 g's is 6400lbs that the belts see.
Wider shoulders certainly helps, but coming aroudn the side, I doubt it's enough in a crash. I bet you could pull the belts off your shoulders with your hands.
Not trying to tell you how you have to live your life, just trying to open your eyes a little to something other then the "if the crash is bad enough you're gonna get hurt anyway" mentality.
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Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness
[Re: dizuster]
#272734
04/04/09 11:39 AM
04/04/09 11:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm also at the point of buying and installing a 5 point harness into a stock bench seat application. I was going to weld tabs to the crossbar, just behind my shoulders, as for the crotch strap have not figured that one out just yet, should I weld a plate to the stock floor with a Tab, then wrap the belt up the front of the bench seat? or have a hole cut in the upholestry. Any suggestions on the best belt to buy for a NSS type application. Thanks.
Plate the floor is fine. But make sure that you cut a hole in the seat for the crotch strap. The point of it is to keep you upright in a crash. If it's too far forward, it will allow you to slip down and you could get hurt as mentioned above.
Quote:
Did I say it was safe? No. In fact I said it's probably not safe. Do I trust my life with it? No. I don't trust my life with anything I drive, even if I'm surrounded by airbags. You're still gonna die if the crash is bad enough. CHIP
You are right if the crash is severe enough, there is always a probability that you could die. The idea is to maximize your chance at life under all circumstances.
What about a less severe crash? What about the broken axle 90 degree turn low speed head on starting line crashes? Even if you hit the wall at 35mph you might see a 20g load. 320lbs x 20 g's is 6400lbs that the belts see.
Wider shoulders certainly helps, but coming aroudn the side, I doubt it's enough in a crash. I bet you could pull the belts off your shoulders with your hands.
Not trying to tell you how you have to live your life, just trying to open your eyes a little to something other then the "if the crash is bad enough you're gonna get hurt anyway" mentality.
well said
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