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Stock seats with 5 point harness #272711 03/31/09 06:45 PM 03/31/09 06:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 971 Mooresville, NC A70Runner OP super stock
A70Runner OP super stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 971 Mooresville, NC	I just put a roll bar in my 70 Roadrunner and was wondering if anyone has modified the stock hi-back bucket seats to work with 5 point belts? Any pictures? Thanks "People Think I'm Insane Because I Am Frowning All The Time" Black Sabbath

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: A70Runner] #272712 03/31/09 06:48 PM 03/31/09 06:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	I'm in the process of doing it right now. I bought an extra yard of material from Legendary when I got the trim covers. Make sure that if you cut a hole in the structure of the seat frame, that you find a way to protect the belt from any sharp edges. I just used a 1/2 piece of tubing bent to fit around the sharp edge opening.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: dizuster] #272713 03/31/09 07:08 PM 03/31/09 07:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,395 Pa Hot 340 master
Hot 340 master Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,395 Pa	So you are saying they need a hole hacked into them to work?

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: Hot 340] #272714 03/31/09 08:23 PM 03/31/09 08:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 971 Mooresville, NC A70Runner OP super stock
A70Runner OP super stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 971 Mooresville, NC	Quote: So you are saying they need a hole hacked into them to work? Yes to make the shoulder belts meet the cross bar. "People Think I'm Insane Because I Am Frowning All The Time" Black Sabbath

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: A70Runner] #272715 03/31/09 08:37 PM 03/31/09 08:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 302 Casa Grande,Arizona D DennisJ super street
DennisJ super street D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 302 Casa Grande,Arizona	What about the part in the rule book,that says the seat has to be attached to the roll bar? How do you do that with a factory type seat? Dennis Jokela I started out with nothing,and I still have most of it.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: A70Runner] #272716 04/01/09 01:17 AM 04/01/09 01:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,211 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,211 Bend,OR USA	I have stock high back seats in my Duster(10:40 ET), it has been through tech at a bunch of different tracks for Pro ET and I have never been bounced or informed that I had to change the way my shoulder harness is mounted or used. It mounts to the bar behind the seat and drapes over the seat with no holes in the seat and no bracing to the seat I wish sometimes that I had made a hole in the upper cushion for the shoulder harness to feed thru but I didn't If yours is a stock seat in a car that does not require a racing seat then check with your local tech before cutting the seat up Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: Cab_Burge] #272717 04/01/09 05:52 AM 04/01/09 05:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,709 NJ central S Scamp408 master
Scamp408 master S Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,709 NJ central	The rule book states if you use a stk seat you do not need the seat attached to the bar . It also states that you donot need the crotch belt through the seat. My shoulder harness does not go throught the seat.BUT DOUBLE CK THE RULE BOOK.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: Scamp408] #272718 04/01/09 06:45 AM 04/01/09 06:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394 Q Quicktree I Win
Quicktree I Win Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394	I wouldn't drive a car with the seat not attached to the bar. Monte posted a while back about how unsafe a stock seat in a race car is. get a race seat if you want to race.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: Quicktree] #272719 04/01/09 11:14 AM 04/01/09 11:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,211 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,211 Bend,OR USA	The stock seats that have the latch for the upper part of the seat are probally not as bad as those that don't, the key to my using the stock seat not attached to the bar is that I always tighten the shoulder harness and seat belt tight enough so I have a hard time moving forward in the harness before the burn out. IHTMS. Bill Bagshaw told me about one of his wrecks in his old Pro Stocker when the crotch strap hurt him more than anything else in the crash You don't want your body to move in a crash, especially forward or to the sides Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: Cab_Burge] #272720 04/01/09 11:32 AM 04/01/09 11:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,930 Odessa, Tx. cudarex master
cudarex master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,930 Odessa, Tx.	What I was told about the dangers of stock seats with no shoulder harness hole thru the back (harness looped around the top), is if you ever have a wreck where the forces cause a downward movement of your body because of the cushing of the bottom seat then that will cause slack in the harness around your shoulders and the shoulder harness could then slide off of your shoulders. And there are all kinds of forces on the body if the wreck is bad enough.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: A70Runner] #272721 04/01/09 11:38 AM 04/01/09 11:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,930 Odessa, Tx. cudarex master
cudarex master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,930 Odessa, Tx.	Here's a e-body done nicely.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: Cab_Burge] #272722 04/01/09 11:44 AM 04/01/09 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Quote: I have stock high back seats in my Duster(10:40 ET), it has been through tech at a bunch of different tracks for Pro ET and I have never been bounced or informed that I had to change the way my shoulder harness is mounted or used. It mounts to the bar behind the seat and drapes over the seat with no holes in the seat and no bracing to the seat... Same thing w/ my Challenger.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: BradH] #272723 04/01/09 02:32 PM 04/01/09 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	I've been a seat engineer/test engineer for more then 10 years. Here is my opinion. First, the shoulder belts absolutely should come through the seat. Wrapping them around the sides is very unsafe, because as mentioned they could slip off your shoulders during a crash. Second, the crotch strap is very important also. The reason it is there is to keep you from "submarining" as we call it. The lap belt needs to stay accross your hips. Some impacts can cause you to slide down under the lap belt. When that happens your internal organs take all of the load instead of your hip/pelvic bones. Not good. On modern seats we do a lot of testing to ensure that the occupant does not do this, but I wouldn't trust 40 year old technology to keep you from going under the lap belt. Last. I feel that there is nothing wrong with using a factory seat in a race car. The seats are heavier then an aftermarket race seat, however the attachment is much more robust also. The lap/shoulder belts take the large majority of the load that the seat see's. When there is a crash, the floor deforms quite a bit in an un-occupied seat. With the belts/driver in the car, the belts actually hold the seat in place. It never gets near the deformation of floor needed for seperation. Anyway, just my

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: dizuster] #272724 04/01/09 03:41 PM 04/01/09 03:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,211 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,211 Bend,OR USA	Quote: I've been a seat engineer/test engineer for more then 10 years. Here is my opinion. Second, the crotch strap is very important also. The reason it is there is to keep you from "submarining" as we call it. The lap belt needs to stay accross your hips. Some impacts can cause you to slide down under the lap belt. When that happens your internal organs take all of the load instead of your hip/pelvic bones. Not good. Bob Lambeck crashed his 1972 Pro Stock Duster at Orange County Raceway in CA. in 1972, the car met all of the tech requirements at that time. It had a four point harness in the car and a fibreglas "race"seat that was properly braced in the car, he slid out of the seat(submarined) and harness and was push up under the dash and trapped thier. He broke one of his hips as well as other dameges , I thank that accident may have help make NHRA start requiring five point harnesses instead of the four point ones I owned and flew a small airpplane for several years, the aircraft industry is very active in making passneger seats in commercial aircraft very safe, not so in the private aircraft produced up to around 1991 when the goverment passed a liability law reforming how long the aircraft manufacturers are liable for parts the make and sell The new small airplanes sold now have 22 G impact rated seats for all passengers and pilots Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: Cab_Burge] #272725 04/01/09 09:34 PM 04/01/09 09:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil dart_73_br mopar
dart_73_br mopar Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 637 Sao Paulo, Brazil	Ok guys, I was going to post a similar topic... I want to know if could do something to put a 5 point or 4 point harness on my Dart�s stock bench style seat ?!? Dangerous ? I want to keep it as stock as possible... will run 11s.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: dart_73_br] #272726 04/02/09 10:21 AM 04/02/09 10:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI D dizuster master
dizuster master D Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,635 Oakland, MI	Good info Cab. Does your sons car have a cage? If not I would not put shoulder belts in because in a roll over it could pin him in an upright position when the roof crushes. Actually a stock shoulder belt would be better. What year is the car? '73 and up should have a shoulder belt.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: dart_73_br] #272727 04/02/09 12:52 PM 04/02/09 12:52 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 220 G Gearbox enthusiast
Gearbox enthusiast G Joined: May 2003 Posts: 220	I'm also at the point of buying and installing a 5 point harness into a stock bench seat application. I was going to weld tabs to the crossbar, just behind my shoulders, as for the crotch strap have not figured that one out just yet, should I weld a plate to the stock floor with a Tab, then wrap the belt up the front of the bench seat? or have a hole cut in the upholestry. Any suggestions on the best belt to buy for a NSS type application. Thanks.

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: Gearbox] #272728 04/02/09 03:13 PM 04/02/09 03:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,369 Marion, South Carolina [><] an8sec70cuda I Live Here
an8sec70cuda I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 13,369 Marion, South Carolina [><]	I have factory buckets, 5 point harnesses, and a 10 pt. cage in my '70 'cuda. I do NOT have the seats attached to the crossbar and the harnesses go around the back of the seat, not through it. My crotch belt does NOT go through the seat, it loops up in front of it. I am big guy, 6'5" tall and 320 lbs, I have broad shoulders (ex college O-tackle), so the belts are less likely to slip off my shoulders. Is this safe? Probably not, but it has passed NHRA tech inspection at a couple tracks and has been cert'd to 8.50 like it sits. At the time I recovered the seats, I couldn't find an upholstery shop locally that would cut the seat for the belts to pass through them and I didn't trust myself to do it. Not saying it's the right way to do it, but it's what I did and it passed tech inspection. CHIP CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: an8sec70cuda] #272729 04/02/09 04:21 PM 04/02/09 04:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,217 Wellington, FL C cudabunch pro stock
cudabunch pro stock C Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,217 Wellington, FL	Quote: I have factory buckets, 5 point harnesses, and a 10 pt. cage in my '70 'cuda. I do NOT have the seats attached to the crossbar and the harnesses go around the back of the seat, not through it. My crotch belt does NOT go through the seat, it loops up in front of it. I am big guy, 6'5" tall and 320 lbs, I have broad shoulders (ex college O-tackle), so the belts are less likely to slip off my shoulders. Is this safe? Probably not, but it has passed NHRA tech inspection at a couple tracks and has been cert'd to 8.50 like it sits. At the time I recovered the seats, I couldn't find an upholstery shop locally that would cut the seat for the belts to pass through them and I didn't trust myself to do it. Not saying it's the right way to do it, but it's what I did and it passed tech inspection. CHIP If I was a tech and saw you crawl out of your car,I would pass it also You look taller in a photo

Re: Stock seats with 5 point harness [Re: an8sec70cuda] #272730 04/02/09 05:01 PM 04/02/09 05:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394 Q Quicktree I Win
Quicktree I Win Q Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 32,394	Quote: I have factory buckets, 5 point harnesses, and a 10 pt. cage in my '70 'cuda. I do NOT have the seats attached to the crossbar and the harnesses go around the back of the seat, not through it. My crotch belt does NOT go through the seat, it loops up in front of it. I am big guy, 6'5" tall and 320 lbs, I have broad shoulders (ex college O-tackle), so the belts are less likely to slip off my shoulders. Is this safe? Probably not, but it has passed NHRA tech inspection at a couple tracks and has been cert'd to 8.50 like it sits. At the time I recovered the seats, I couldn't find an upholstery shop locally that would cut the seat for the belts to pass through them and I didn't trust myself to do it. Not saying it's the right way to do it, but it's what I did and it passed tech inspection. CHIP passing tech doesn't mean it's safe. do you trust your life with it? I wouldn't.

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