Re: safe min. thickness for cyl walls on production block
[Re: goldmember]
#268616
03/27/09 09:47 PM
03/27/09 09:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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If you look down on each bore, standing at the rear of the block... major thrust is the right side... outboard(freeze plugs) on 2-8, and the inner (cam bore) side on 1-7. I dont want any thinner than .140 on the major thrust. Minor thrus is the opposite side of the bore. You can go a little thinner there. i've run pin axis thicknesses of .090, but never thinner. You are better sleeving if the thrust is thin, and typically, you will find one or two cores that dhifted and those cylinders will be thinner than the others.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: safe min. thickness for cyl walls on production block
[Re: goldmember]
#268618
03/28/09 09:26 AM
03/28/09 09:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim
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Quote:
I ask the same question a while back. RyanJ recommended min .090" non thrust,.140-.150" minor and .160"+ major thrust. I sonic checked one today that was pretty beefy 
I don't have any magic answer, but the above is the worst I would bother building at all. For higher power combos, I would try to find major thrusts close to 0.200", minor over 0.150", and non-thrust over 0.120".
And I wouldn't call this "beefy", just a better production block. Some are real thin in spots and sleeving 1 or 2 cylinders could save a thin block to be usable. Remember, a beefy race block should be over 0.200" everywhere.
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Re: safe min. thickness for cyl walls on production block
[Re: 440Jim]
#268619
03/28/09 09:33 AM
03/28/09 09:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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I originally wanted .200 on major thrusts. But I'd need to run a mopar only scrap yard from the 70s to find enough blocks to build them with that restriction...lol. It's a good iron they are cast from, but the casting accuracy stunk. I find th elater blocks are more consistant anyway. Maybe not as thick, but they are al thin, or all ok. earlier blocks (pre 73) tend to be one or two holes way off, the rest might be ok.'ve tested about 25 blocks of all sizes since I got my tester, so this is a very, very small number checked. But those are the trends I've found.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: safe min. thickness for cyl walls on production block
[Re: 440Jim]
#268621
03/28/09 12:27 PM
03/28/09 12:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,501
Gainesville,FL
goldmember
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master
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Gainesville,FL
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The numbers given were ___minimums___ for a production block,nothing more. I didn't say the numbers given were beefy,simply that a block that I sonic checked friday morning would be beefy compared to those numbers. The op didn't say but I assumed he was asking about production small block numbers.
Last edited by goldmember; 03/28/09 12:45 PM.
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Re: safe min. thickness for cyl walls on production block
[Re: goldmember]
#268622
03/29/09 11:54 AM
03/29/09 11:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
10 o to go
"Happy Don"
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"Happy Don"
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
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 Since it sounds like opinions if any of you had blocks would think hard blocking will help lessen shifting of the blocks and strengthen them . And torque plate during hard blocking then again boring with torque plate ? don
2009 418" build dan smith built
new 9.96 131.82
6.23 108
1.30 60 foot
best to date 9/15/09
8in 727 430 dana 2860 lb 3040 lb w driver
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Re: safe min. thickness for cyl walls on production block
[Re: 10 o to go]
#268623
03/29/09 12:11 PM
03/29/09 12:11 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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Yes, mine are all simply opinions. This one gets wordy...lol. As far as hard block, you cannot strengthen the a cylinder bore by hardblocking without removing the cooling capacity and surface area. There is a point where you simply can't run effective cooling with it. So "1/2 fills" and such onlu strengthen to where they stop, and they stop the heat transfer. Not that there is a ton a tthe bottom of a bore, but as you get taller fill-wise, the negative side affect gets stronger exponentially because the top is where the heat is. the incedents of splitting I've seen appear to have started towards the top of the bore. The area with the most heat, and the greatest movement due to pressure and crank position. So does hard block help? Yes. Does it fix a problem? possibly. Does it have a negative or down side? definately. Sleeves address the issue of a thin "side" with no negative except to cost. But if it's the process of readying a factory block to do a job that is way above what it was ever designed for, the question becomes budget. Caps, possibly girdles, oil mods, lifter bore prep, and then replacement of thinner cylinder walls may be similar money to simply getting an aftermarket block that simply needs the machining done with little down side. You can spend $3K+ on prepping a factory block to be maxed out. Or you can spend a little more and have something that was meant to do the job. On a budget of $8-10K or more, overall durability and power shouldnt be worth saving a thousand or two IMO.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: safe min. thickness for cyl walls on production block
[Re: moper]
#268624
03/29/09 02:20 PM
03/29/09 02:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
Ron Silva
top fuel
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top fuel
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USA
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I had a 71 360 block with 4" stroke, w-5 heads and 525 horses and it split the #6 Cylinger wall in 3 places on the thrust side at .140-.150 thickness (and blew up!). I drilled right through the block and physically measured it after I removed all the scrap parts out of it.
SRT DEMON ONE SEAT
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Re: safe min. thickness for cyl walls on production block
[Re: moper]
#268625
03/29/09 04:31 PM
03/29/09 04:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
10 o to go
"Happy Don"
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"Happy Don"
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,489
St. Louis Mo.
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Quote:
Yes, mine are all simply opinions. This one gets wordy...lol. As far as hard block, you cannot strengthen the a cylinder bore by hardblocking without removing the cooling capacity and surface area. There is a point where you simply can't run effective cooling with it. So "1/2 fills" and such onlu strengthen to where they stop, and they stop the heat transfer. Not that there is a ton a tthe bottom of a bore, but as you get taller fill-wise, the negative side affect gets stronger exponentially because the top is where the heat is. the incedents of splitting I've seen appear to have started towards the top of the bore. The area with the most heat, and the greatest movement due to pressure and crank position. So does hard block help? Yes. Does it fix a problem? possibly. Does it have a negative or down side? definately. Sleeves address the issue of a thin "side" with no negative except to cost. But if it's the process of readying a factory block to do a job that is way above what it was ever designed for, the question becomes budget. Caps, possibly girdles, oil mods, lifter bore prep, and then replacement of thinner cylinder walls may be similar money to simply getting an aftermarket block that simply needs the machining done with little down side. You can spend $3K+ on prepping a factory block to be maxed out. Or you can spend a little more and have something that was meant to do the job. On a budget of $8-10K or more, overall durability and power shouldnt be worth saving a thousand or two IMO.
Cooling would be effected but in my case i run alky and had my 410 hard blocked not fill full but to gain heat was ok and cooling quick .I guess the application desired.we ran 10.13 10.30s .040 360
don
2009 418" build dan smith built
new 9.96 131.82
6.23 108
1.30 60 foot
best to date 9/15/09
8in 727 430 dana 2860 lb 3040 lb w driver
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Re: safe min. thickness for cyl walls on production block
[Re: 10 o to go]
#268626
03/29/09 05:05 PM
03/29/09 05:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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Yeah, I didnt include alky...lol. I have helped with a stovebolt GM 6 that was alky. It has a full fill, and the temp would go down during the run (big single turbo, welded Dart heads). But most guys are not running injected alky..lol. I dont know if carbed alcohol engines drop temp like that... I dont build them. 
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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