425 hp is decent goal. Now that you know about the benefit of closed chamber versus open chamber you can put a plan together to work. Assume you get the heads your left to pistons and cam really. You won't need anything exotic as far as the valvetrain really. The stock rockers should work fine for 425 hp.

I guess a major limiting factor in terms of stock appearance would be carb, exhaust, and intake. I know the F.A.S.T. guys are runniing stock appearing stuff, but they usually are stroked out to the max which you indicated you're not able to do. With that in mind I am not so sure you'll be able to meet you goals with the stock manifolds and carb. You may need to make some compromises there.

You could run an aftermarket intake and carb. With a painted intake it is hard to tell at a glance and no one really sees the carb...headers are a dead giveaway though.

Well me and the old man just got done arguing over heads and certain choices with this motor. We decided that we can go with the mopar performer intake manifold and it will still maintain stock appearance on the motor. Of course it won't have the cast numbers on it but I'll just tuck the stock manifold away for safe keeping.

We'll rebuild the carter competition carb 750cfm. I'll remove the competition tag off the front of it and it will resemble the carter AVS carb from the factory.

The hi-po manifolds are definately staying because they do flow decent for a factory exhaust manifold compared to a regular exhaust manifold. The beauty is that the factory exhaust on this car is solid as a rock and just needs to be cleaned. The whole exhaust system, factory mufflers and all, is re-usable.

I'm pretty sure that I want to go with the 484 lift mopar purple cam for this motor. The AC pump won't be as much of a strain as I was making it out to be.

Now comes the heads that we spent quite sometime arguing over. His claim is that the 346 heads should work perfectly fine with the proper deck work done. We'll swap out the valves and put in 2.14 valves as a replacement for the 2.08 valves. We have the templates to do a full port and polish job on the heads to give more air flow.

With the ignition system, were going to convert the car to an all electronic ignition system. In order to maintain the 'stock' appearance, we'll tuck away and hide all the aftermarket ignition components.

Now for pistons and rings, his buddy who has a 69' Charger RT SE strongly suggests going with TRW pistons and cast iron rings. He's been running those pistons and rings for a number of years in the same motor and still runs a solid 12.3 in quarter.

Unless I get some judge that is totally anal and studies mopars day and night, I think this car can do really good at shows by maintaining an almost all origional appearance.

Sounds like you're on a path. I still think that a goal of 425 is going to be hard to get with your combo though.

For the TRW pistons and compression ratio just show your Dad this page from Campbell motorsports. The compression difference between a closed chamber and open chamber is almost a full point. This is HUGE and makes a big differnce. A thing to keep in mind too is these advertised numbers are average at best. Point is that you need to do some homework. Measure the deck height and cc' the heads to be sure.

To make up a full point of compression you will need to take alot off of the heads which messes with intake fit and valvetrain geometry.

http://www.campbellenterprises.com/mopar_speed_pro_trw_forged_pistons.htm

The intake manifold is a nice fit. If it's the 2 plane there is not a huge upgrade versus the stock other than weight though.

The manifolds should be mgnafluxed (I think that's the term) or magna honed or whatever. There's some companies out there that can clean up the flow by pushing a bunch of molten material through it. Not sure what it exactly is, but I remeber reading about it somewhere...

I really don't understand why this is in the restoration forum...sounds performance oriented to me.

Well I had it moved from the question and answer section hoping that some of these restoration guys had ways to up the performance on their motors without having to swap out too many factory pieces. That was the goal was to simply up the perf. without having to do major mods to the existing factory motor. But I'm finding out that that's not possible. Plus I don't see a performance section anywhere on Moparts anyway.

If I were building a numbers matching 383 I still think I'd sneak a steel 440 crank in there with the mains turned down to 383 size. I think the counterweights need to be turned down also, but with the right cam it would make one sweet motor. I like the factory high po manifolds too. 'Bet you can get way down in the 13s with it!

FWIW I think you & your dad both need to read this... BTW the title is Racing Secrets but it covers quench pretty well & that has just as much to do with a street engine...

http://racingsecrets.com/article_racing-10.html

And this is a good read too..

http://www.arengineering.com/articles/articleframe.html

I'm not suggesting you build any particular way, just telling you think about it & learn from others who have made the mistakes, it may cost more but you'll be happy with the build & won't find yourself wanting to do everything over to correct the mistakes you were warned about..
The thing is your listening to your dad (as you should) but he like many of us that played with these old cars wants to build what we built back in the 70's.. Well the fuel isn't as good, & theres been alot of advances in making more power without needing race fuel or some additive...

And my final link... http://www.440source.com/

Well I know his buddy who has been building these engines and continues to build them. He is going to be my main consultant cause the guy knows what to run what with what and knows the entire geometry and science of building an engine. He was the main help in designing my father's 440 and that thing is pushing 650hp on pump gas and dished diamond pistons, but we think his 516 heads make up for it anyway. The guy has his garage filled to the roof in hemi's, 440's, 340's and whatever else the guy has. I'm sure begging for a hemi won't work lol.

But from what he said, the hemi was more about pedigree and was a real pain in the a** because it required constant maintenance and timing adjustments. He also suggested building a 400 stroker motor as well. I really need to sit down with him so we can come up with a plan for this rebuild. The reason I'm asking up here for suggestions is because it helps give me ideas and view points from others who have tried this.

my depends on how you plan to use the car? The '71-'74 B-Body cars are pretty heavy, usually at least #3,800. If you want something to just cruse around in and take to car shows the 383 would be fine, but if you plan to drag race the car you will want more cubic inches and probbably be changing alot of parts that will take away from the stock apearance anyhow.

Here is the progression I have taken with my 1971 Charger 500 that had the numbers matching 383 4-bbl/auto trans, etc. I started with just a mild rebuild of the stock 383. Used a mild aftermarket cam, and did some mild port work on the heads. At the time I was still using the stock intake, exhaust, carb, converter, 3.23 open diff, etc. The car ran decent but was not really fast. The converter was also too tight for the new cam. I think the car ran 15's at Bandimere (most cars running 15's here can run mid 13's at lower altitude like Topeka.) In this configuration the car was street driven alot, and not raced very often.
Anyhow, I messed with headers, different intakes, carbs, and gears which made the car a bit quicker, but now the engine looked vary aftermarket/modified, and with the lower gear (high numerical) and bigger exhaust the highway RPM were much higher and the car much louder.
In town, and at the drag strip it was fun, but long 100+ mile trips got annoying.
Anyhow, I ended over reving the engine and bending some valve, so I droped in a 451 stroker I built for a different car, and that engine stayed in the car for over 10 years until it broke a valve and messed up the engine. The 451 made way more power than the mild 383, so it was real fun to drive, but also alot more $$$$ than the 383, not to mention I had to install a fuel cell, electric fuel pump, larger fuel lines, Drag Radials, higher stall converter, etc. Being at Bandimere kept the car in the 12's so I did not need to install a roll bar yet, but the car now was starting to become more of a drag car and only driven on the street to car shows, cruses, and for fun weekends.
Now I'm building a 500" stroker to put in the car, although I have considered stroking the original 383 and putting the car to more stock appearing/street status, and drop the 500 in the '69 Coronet R/T that the 451 was built for in the first place.

Anyhow, I hope that helps?

Yes that does help give me some idea of what I want. I'm realizing more and more that I want a car that can get up and go and still have driveability. I spoke to my dad's buddy about designing and planning out the whole build for the engine. He says he already has a set up in mind that uses the 346 heads etc. and almost everything and the motor. The set up he is suggesting will be able to use the factory AC, hi-po manifolds and factory exhaust and push 431 hp and around 440 to 450 ft/lb of torque.

Me and dad have been talking a lot about the car cause were in the process of moving within the next two months and he doesn't want me taking anything off the car until the move is done. It's understandable just so we can organize all the pieces, but very frustrating having to wait. Plus I've been looking at how frustrated my dad gets with his 67' Dart GTS. He has a 440 pushing 650hp and he tubbed out the rear and put 32's. His frustration is with how bad the driveability is and trying to work out all the gremlins popping up with the motor. I think my roadrunner will be alot of fun with the set up his friend is suggesting and the car will still turn decent times in the 1/4.

Here's the dart:

If it was my car I'd build the 383. I'd leave all the original parts on it, but build the inside of the motor. quality machine work, port the heads, decent compression, quality cam, maybe even stroke it to a 431. It will look totally stock, but run like a muscle car should run and the way everyone expects them to run. The Mopar Action 72 Runner is a perfect example.

The .484 cam is a dinosaur. There are much better grinds out there on the shelf.

You could even pay a little more and get one custom ground.

What kind of cam do you recommend ?