01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
#2613834
01/29/19 02:09 AM
01/29/19 02:09 AM
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Sixpak
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01 2500 HO 6 speed 2wd, stone stock, except for moving stock lift pump back by the tank at 80k, replaced pump at 129k for preventative maintenance. Now at 214K. Never wrecked, never seen salt - Florida vehicle its whole life. Died in my driveway, as if the lift pump was dying - at first I figured either a voltage issue to the lift pump or the pump itself. A few weeks back, I noticed WTS light not coming on very infrequently and still being allow to start the motor. Not sure if that's relevant. Back to being dead in the driveway - cycled the pump as if filling the filter after changing it, ran for a little while. Shut it down, try to start a few days later, no start. Lift pump sounded sick, like it was laboring. Swapped out the pump, replaced the 'extension cord' needed to move the pump, new pump sounded much worse (conclusion - new Carter pumps made offshore are junk). Put a gas motor code scanner on it, NO CODES, Passed. Removed the ecm, have never had the harness off it, pulled harness, no obvious corrosion on pins or connectors. Cleaned ECM mounting points, made sure good ground all the way back to the battery. Cleaned harness connection lift pump. Re-installed old lift pump, sounding better than new one. Checked fuel pressure at the VP44 while pump cycling (as if filling the filter) - 13.5 psi. Cycled the key on-off,on-off, on - codes on the odometer - P PCM _ _ _ _ _ _ P Done P ECM _ _ _ _ _ _ P Done - again, no codes. Charged the batteries, am getting WTS light, still won't run. Cranks fine. What to check next? Especially with no codes?
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: Sixpak]
#2613860
01/29/19 03:47 AM
01/29/19 03:47 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
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Google Cummins FCA - Fuel control actuator. might be your problem.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: Sixpak]
#2613911
01/29/19 10:09 AM
01/29/19 10:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,696 enfield, CT
ViperDave
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Is it coughing smoke? color? or it is like trying to start with no fuel?
Also outside temp?
Last edited by ViperDave; 01/29/19 10:10 AM.
67 Dart GT Vert 273/904 72 Town & Country 440/727 90 D350 reg cab dually cummins 15 Scat Pack Challenger
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: ViperDave]
#2614248
01/29/19 08:39 PM
01/29/19 08:39 PM
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Is it coughing smoke? color? or it is like trying to start with no fuel?
Also outside temp? Ourside temp hi 50's, low 60's. WTS light is coming on, then going off, before I try to crank. Doesn't pop or spit like it's getting some fuel, don't see white clouds out the back.
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: Tom_440]
#2614250
01/29/19 08:41 PM
01/29/19 08:41 PM
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Air in the injector lines? I can't bring myself to ask if it fires with ether... No, will never try ether on a diesel. I cycled the lift pump a good dozen times, shouldn't be any air, although I do have a trickle of fuel coming out the handle for the drain valve on the filter, which I need to address, just not sure how yet. Haven't taken it apart. Had the filter assy out to get at the ECM. Washed it off in the parts washer and now I notice the leak.
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: rowin4]
#2614344
01/29/19 11:23 PM
01/29/19 11:23 PM
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Sixpak
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Google Cummins FCA - Fuel control actuator. might be your problem. That part seems to be on 03 and up common rail motors...mine's an 01 with a VP44..
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: Sixpak]
#2614573
01/30/19 02:00 PM
01/30/19 02:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,696 enfield, CT
ViperDave
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I would crack open the injector lines and see if you are getting fuel to injectors.
If not, I would crack open the fuel line going to the VP pump and see if the pump is getting fuel.
67 Dart GT Vert 273/904 72 Town & Country 440/727 90 D350 reg cab dually cummins 15 Scat Pack Challenger
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: Sixpak]
#2614982
01/31/19 12:19 PM
01/31/19 12:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,406 New Jersey, USA
yella71
pro stock
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Follow the fuel. Start at the tank make sure you have good fuel in it. Make sure the filter has fuel to it , then make sure that the fuel is getting to the pump. then see if the pump is pumping fuel to the injectors. If no fuel to the injectors and you have fuel to everything up to the pump and the right pressure to the pump your pump is shot. Also don't be afraid of ether just don't abuse it. just a sniff. disable the cold start system and give it a quick shot in the air tube at the filter. that truck should not need anything as a cold start aid in florida at that temp. A cummins will start at just about any temp when all is right. vp44 pumps are known for failure. If all that checks out it may have a bad crank sensor you may need a good scan tool to help your diag. Diesels are simple
Last edited by yella71; 01/31/19 12:24 PM.
71 challenger convertable, 64 sport fury 383 ci with factory air
99 sebring convertable
89 CTD pup
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: Sixpak]
#2615413
02/01/19 01:33 AM
02/01/19 01:33 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
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Air in the injector lines? I can't bring myself to ask if it fires with ether... No, will never try ether on a diesel. I cycled the lift pump a good dozen times, shouldn't be any air, although I do have a trickle of fuel coming out the handle for the drain valve on the filter, which I need to address, just not sure how yet. Haven't taken it apart. Had the filter assy out to get at the ECM. Washed it off in the parts washer and now I notice the leak. If you have a leak at the filter, wouldn't mean your main pump will be sucking air?
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: rowin4]
#2615500
02/01/19 10:51 AM
02/01/19 10:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,406 New Jersey, USA
yella71
pro stock
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The system and injection pump is fed fuel under pressure by an electric lift pump. So no it would not be sucking air. The lift pump also must maintain a specific pressure to the injection pump because the fuel is also used to cool the pump and its electronics. Low fuel pressure is the main cause of pump failure on vp44 pumps.
Last edited by yella71; 02/01/19 10:55 AM.
71 challenger convertable, 64 sport fury 383 ci with factory air
99 sebring convertable
89 CTD pup
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: Sixpak]
#2616624
02/03/19 10:17 PM
02/03/19 10:17 PM
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kenworth_goose
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: 440_Offroader]
#2617142
02/05/19 01:08 AM
02/05/19 01:08 AM
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J_BODY
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The injection pump needs to see 10psi minimum at all times. Huge myth
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: Sixpak]
#2617210
02/05/19 10:01 AM
02/05/19 10:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,696 enfield, CT
ViperDave
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lift pumps can do and sound weird when they are pushing air because its compressible.
67 Dart GT Vert 273/904 72 Town & Country 440/727 90 D350 reg cab dually cummins 15 Scat Pack Challenger
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Re: 01 2500 HO Cummins No start issue
[Re: J_BODY]
#2617456
02/05/19 08:30 PM
02/05/19 08:30 PM
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While I understand the “theory” of moving the pump, I’ve seen a lot of issues with pickups over the years that have had that particular mod done. From poor fuel line connection, to too small of wire and corroded butt connectors. I still run a pump in the stock location. It’s easy to get to and by monitoring my fuel psi I should be able to tell if it gives up the ghost. I’m only on my 2nd lift pump from the oem unit that started weeping after a year of ULSD (Cummins made an upgraded diaphragm). As far as the theory, I understand it to be the same reason that electric pumps are near the tank on a drag car - electric pumps do better at pushing fuel rather than pulling it. The shorter the straw to start the siphon, the less the pump has to work, the longer it will live. And mine got a 1/2" line from the pump to the filter and from the filter to the VE44 at the time. Mine is on the inner frame rail about 8" in front of the tank. I cut the stock fuel line there, bent it outwards, then plumbed the moved pump to the stock line back into the tank. From the inlet of the pump forward it's all 1/2".
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