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Change in direction w/ carburetor #2610682 01/22/19 09:23 PM 01/22/19 09:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	This was supposed to be my "big" downleg option (1.58" venturi w/ Braswell downleg boosters), but it didn't have enough booster signal.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610683 01/22/19 09:24 PM 01/22/19 09:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Now it's an annular...

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610684 01/22/19 09:25 PM 01/22/19 09:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	You change out and flow your own booster Brad? Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610685 01/22/19 09:25 PM 01/22/19 09:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 12,589 Great Neck,LI,new york hemi-itis I Live Here
hemi-itis I Live Here Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 12,589 Great Neck,LI,new york	Why?? Too large HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610686 01/22/19 09:25 PM 01/22/19 09:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	... a lot like my OTHER 1.58" venturi annular that's based on a QFT main body. Yeah, that's kind of redundant.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610688 01/22/19 09:26 PM 01/22/19 09:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Funny thing is the airflow tests w/ the downleg and annular boosters were virtually indentical. I guess if you got a big enough hole to fill, the booster type doesn't mean as much re airflow potential.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: madscientist] #2610691 01/22/19 09:28 PM 01/22/19 09:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By madscientist You change out and flow your own booster Brad? It's been known to happen...

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: hemi-itis] #2610694 01/22/19 09:29 PM 01/22/19 09:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By hemi-itis Why?? Too large For my application, yes. A smaller venturi with a decent downleg or stuffing annular boosters in the big venturi will respond better (60-ft., shift recovery). Example of smaller-venturi downleg (1.50" v w/ Braswell boosters) that flows basically the same as that QFT 1.58" v annular above.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610696 01/22/19 09:35 PM 01/22/19 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Ever heard the old expression: A man with one watch knows the time. A man with two never does. In this case, it's probably: A man with one carburetor can find a good tune. A man with (uhhhh... how many do I still own now???) hasn't got a freakin' chance in He11.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610712 01/22/19 10:00 PM 01/22/19 10:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,892 S.E. Michigan ZIPPY I Live Here
ZIPPY I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,892 S.E. Michigan	I have no clue what you're even talking about, but thems some real pretty and shiny parts you got there, I tell you what

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: ZIPPY] #2610723 01/22/19 10:32 PM 01/22/19 10:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,052 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,052 Oregon	I got a booster shot once so I think I know what he is talking about.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610738 01/22/19 10:53 PM 01/22/19 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	It doesn’t seem so much of a change in direction as, “now I have two of these”. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2610785 01/22/19 11:58 PM 01/22/19 11:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Ummmm.... yeah... kind of looks that way... And for some reason I feel like I need to ask my doctor about a booster shot. Jeez-us, this sh!t is making me nutz.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610796 01/23/19 12:27 AM 01/23/19 12:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,209 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,209 New York	if you got a big enough hole to fill, the booster type doesn't mean as much re airflow potential I agree, it's the smaller primary venturis that are significantly obscured (lower CFM per square inch) by annulars, it evens out as the area goes up. Why doesn't someone make s m a l l e r annulars? The usual stuff is cast, which requires wall thickness and internal strength at the cheapest cost. Not enough sales volume. 3-D printing? Shameless self-promotion: I "invented" adapting a Holley 4010 annular secondary booster to the 1933 Harley-Davidson 1 bbl. side-draft carb (Linkert Model M) used for 30 years. http://www.victorylibrary.com/L-BK.htm Boffin Emeritus

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610808 01/23/19 12:52 AM 01/23/19 12:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	So then I want to ask the question are you better off with a bigger Venturi and a annular booster or keeping the Venturi a reasonable size for application and just use a good down leg? Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: madscientist] #2610825 01/23/19 01:38 AM 01/23/19 01:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By madscientist So then I want to ask the question are you better off with a bigger Venturi and a annular booster or keeping the Venturi a reasonable size for application and just use a good down leg? Based upon everything I've read and heard from some pretty sharp people... it depends. Examples: Annular boosters promote better atomizing of the air-fuel mixture, but they can work "too well" and result in less power, although improved efficiency. They're also more sensitive to temperature changes in the induction system. In certain applications they're more difficult to tune, such as large c.i. engines trying to run a 4150 annular and going rich early because the annular boosters come onto the main circuit faster. Downlegs can be problematic when there isn't sufficient signal being made to pull the fuel through the booster and break up against the inside of the booster venturi. You can find some good videos of carburetor operation viewed from above the venturi and under these low-signal conditions the fuel comes out more like it's pouring from the end of a (very small) garden hose, barely touching the booster venturi. Well, that's what (some of) "the experts" say. And then you look around at moden 4500-type carbs and rarely see anything but annular boosters... and the current lineup of Braswell 4150-type carbs doesn't appear to use anything but Braswell's design of downleg. I cannot claim anything conclusive. Even if my future planned carb tests show an advantage of one approach over the other, that would only be valid for my specific combination & application. Yep, that's a really long non-answer, but it's all I can offer at this point. Not having real test results sucks. Last edited by BradH; 01/23/19 01:49 AM.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: polyspheric] #2610832 01/23/19 01:45 AM 01/23/19 01:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By polyspheric Why doesn't someone make s m a l l e r annulars? Google "mini annular booster" and you should see a link to the mini annulars that CCS has listed on eBarf. However, what I suspect with those is they are going to be fairly limited in fuel flow capability... and they look kind of crude IMO.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610851 01/23/19 02:18 AM 01/23/19 02:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted By BradH Originally Posted By madscientist So then I want to ask the question are you better off with a bigger Venturi and a annular booster or keeping the Venturi a reasonable size for application and just use a good down leg? Based upon everything I've read and heard from some pretty sharp people... it depends. Examples: Annular boosters promote better atomizing of the air-fuel mixture, but they can work "too well" and result in less power, although improved efficiency. They're also more sensitive to temperature changes in the induction system. In certain applications they're more difficult to tune, such as large c.i. engines trying to run a 4150 annular and going rich early because the annular boosters come onto the main circuit faster. Downlegs can be problematic when there isn't sufficient signal being made to pull the fuel through the booster and break up against the inside of the booster venturi. You can find some good videos of carburetor operation viewed from above the venturi and under these low-signal conditions the fuel comes out more like it's pouring from the end of a (very small) garden hose, barely touching the booster venturi. Well, that's what (some of) "the experts" say. And then you look around at moden 4500-type carbs and rarely see anything but annular boosters... and the current lineup of Braswell 4150-type carbs doesn't appear to use anything but Braswell's design of downleg. I cannot claim anything conclusive. Even if my future planned carb tests show an advantage of one approach over the other, that would only be valid for my specific combination & application. Yep, that's a really long non-answer, but it's all I can offer at this point. Not having real test results sucks. Thanks for the explanation. I figured it was going to be a testing deal. I guess my next question would be what led you to believe you didn't have enough booster gain. I'm asking because I hope by the end of the year I can buy another flow bench (kicking my own ass on a regular basis for selling the last one I had...selling it was short sighted and ignorant but I've never claimed to be smarter than the average bear) and do some testing on my own. I think at this point I'm fighting a booster issue but I want to do a bit more work on my intake manifold before I proclaim I don't have enough booster gain. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610862 01/23/19 03:15 AM 01/23/19 03:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,052 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,052 Oregon	The little bit of testing I've done seemed to indicate that annular boosters really help with cold air and/or a cold intake manifold. We saw some pretty impressive power gains on my 470 when running in cold air with an annular booster carb. Not sure that really helps though since most guys aren't racing or driving high perf cars when it is near freezing. Sure makes good power on the dyno though.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: AndyF] #2610874 01/23/19 03:50 AM 01/23/19 03:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted By AndyF The little bit of testing I've done seemed to indicate that annular boosters really help with cold air and/or a cold intake manifold. We saw some pretty impressive power gains on my 470 when running in cold air with an annular booster carb. Not sure that really helps though since most guys aren't racing or driving high perf cars when it is near freezing. Sure makes good power on the dyno though. Funny you mention that. I drive my junk year round and I suspect the Strip Dominator and the down leg booster may be giving me issues. I've never had any icing issues and I've driven when it's been in the low teens. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: madscientist] #2610894 01/23/19 05:37 AM 01/23/19 05:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,251 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,251 Bend,OR USA	My pilot training taught me a lot about air and how the weather affects it, cold dry air will make a hoop of power, hot humid air won't When the first 830 CFM Holley annular double pumper carbs. first came out(mid 1980smaybe) nobody could stop them from going richer and richer above 5000 RPM Almost every Dominator carb I've seen has annular boosters, some with skirts but most without EFI doesn't have those issues Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: madscientist] #2610964 01/23/19 12:13 PM 01/23/19 12:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By madscientist I guess my next question would be what led you to believe you didn't have enough booster gain. It could be helpful if you did some searching on the Racing Fuel Systems web forum, in particular for flow test vs booster signal data that Mark Whitener ('jmarkaudio')has posted there and on other web sites over the years. Here's a LINK to one of the old posts on SpeedTalk where he provided information such as shown in the graph below:

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2610971 01/23/19 12:35 PM 01/23/19 12:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	I don’t think that’s the answer he was looking for 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: madscientist] #2610976 01/23/19 12:47 PM 01/23/19 12:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi ccdave The Ultimate
ccdave The Ultimate Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi	Those are all very nice however you may want to try a BLP main body from Dominic at Thumper carbs. You won't be disappointed. The BLP is the ultimate 4150 main body.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2610978 01/23/19 12:49 PM 01/23/19 12:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth I don’t think that’s the answer he was looking for Such is life... EDIT: Anyone who's willing to pay all my R&D bills can have all my R&D data. Last edited by BradH; 01/23/19 01:30 PM.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: ccdave] #2610981 01/23/19 12:56 PM 01/23/19 12:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By ccdave Those are all very nice however you may want to try a BLP main body from Dominic at Thumper carbs. You won't be disappointed. The BLP is the ultimate 4150 main body. I've asked for before & after test data on like-for-like venturi size & booster config comparing the BLP BX4 main body against the "traditional" HP-type 4150 main body, but have yet to see any. I've seen the claims by the carb builders using that style of main body. It's pretty simple IMO: if they ET & MPH better than properly-tuned carbs of the same config that use HP-style main bodies, that would tell me there's something to the design. Do they look cool? Yep. Do they look like they "should" be an improvement vs the older style designs? Yep Have I seen anything "real world" to justify making the switch? Still waiting...

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611003 01/23/19 01:29 PM 01/23/19 01:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,209 New York polyspheric master
polyspheric master Joined: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,209 New York	David Vizard (first? 40 years ago) suggested that higher atomization (as produced by annular) increases the volume occupied by fuel, which reduces the air volume. High atomization is best in heads with excellent CFM capacity. If the head isn't that efficient, larger droplets (normal booster) means more air volume. Mixture strength, air:fuel By weight 14.7:1 By volume (fully vaporized) 9,400:1 An obvious try-out: Annular for tip-in and part throttle response, and smaller HSAB to reduce the effect at higher RPM? Boffin Emeritus

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611027 01/23/19 01:59 PM 01/23/19 01:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,052 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,052 Oregon	Originally Posted By BradH Originally Posted By fast68plymouth I don’t think that’s the answer he was looking for Such is life... EDIT: Anyone who's willing to pay all my R&D bills can have all my R&D data. I'll agree with that.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: AndyF] #2611073 01/23/19 03:07 PM 01/23/19 03:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By AndyF Originally Posted By BradH Originally Posted By fast68plymouth I don’t think that’s the answer he was looking for Such is life... EDIT: Anyone who's willing to pay all my R&D bills can have all my R&D data. I'll agree with that. I'm typically someone who has shared everything. However, for the latest carb "stuff", I'm still trying to figure things out and don't want to go into it publically any more than what I've posted.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2611159 01/23/19 06:16 PM 01/23/19 06:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth I don’t think that’s the answer he was looking for No that helps. I forgot about that forum Brad pointed out. When I get some time I'll jump over there and spend some time reading. Thanks Brad. I never expect anyone to give it all up for nothing. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: madscientist] #2611633 01/24/19 04:14 PM 01/24/19 04:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Eventually, for better or worse, all the juicy (or gory) details will most likely come out. Right now there are too many variables in play that I won't understood better until I can test the carbs on my car... which isn't running, yet. I'm stuck with a bunch of hypotheses in the meantime, and my hypothesis "hit rate" might be about 50%, if I'm lucky. FWIW, here's my baseline, a late-90's BG Gold Claw 1.425" v that's proved to be a nice balance between streetability and on-track performance. Last edited by BradH; 01/24/19 04:15 PM.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2611643 01/24/19 04:31 PM 01/24/19 04:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth I don’t think that’s the answer he was looking for OK... I didn't mention I had it wet-flow te$ted.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611647 01/24/19 04:35 PM 01/24/19 04:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By BradH Originally Posted By ccdave Those are all very nice however you may want to try a BLP main body from Dominic at Thumper carbs. You won't be disappointed. The BLP is the ultimate 4150 main body. I've asked for before & after test data on like-for-like venturi size & booster config comparing the BLP BX4 main body against the "traditional" HP-type 4150 main body, but have yet to see any. I've seen the claims by the carb builders using that style of main body. It's pretty simple IMO: if they ET & MPH better than properly-tuned carbs of the same config that use HP-style main bodies, that would tell me there's something to the design. Do they look cool? Yep. Do they look like they "should" be an improvement vs the older style designs? Yep Have I seen anything "real world" to justify making the switch? Still waiting... Here's one of those things for which I may never have an answer: If the BLP 1.59" v BX4 body on the left was fitted with the same annular boosters as the modified Holley Ultra 1.58" v body on the right, would the difference in the main body design itself result in a quantifiable improvement?

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611651 01/24/19 04:45 PM 01/24/19 04:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,363 Cotati, CA Dave Hall top fuel
Dave Hall top fuel Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,363 Cotati, CA	Just looking at them I would have to say yes. There are no interruptions (besides the boosters) in the bores to the left where the Holley looks like a yard sale on the top of it. Left also looks like a smoother transition from the booster to the plate. The throttle plate itself looks to have blind screws.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611655 01/24/19 04:51 PM 01/24/19 04:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky justinp61 I Live Here
justinp61 I Live Here Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky	I have the same BX4 main body with down leg boosters on my pump gas 434 small block and have wondered if annulars would be better for my street/strip use. My carb started as a Bigs 950HP, if I can come up with a four corner idle 1 3/4" base plate I'm thinking about building the 950 to test at the strip against the BX4.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: justinp61] #2611658 01/24/19 04:58 PM 01/24/19 04:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By justinp61 I have the same BX4 main body with down leg boosters... It should look familiar... that's a picture that you posted which I cropped to show only the BLP body.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: Dave Hall] #2611674 01/24/19 05:18 PM 01/24/19 05:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By Dave Hall Just looking at them I would have to say yes. There are no interruptions (besides the boosters) in the bores to the left where the Holley looks like a yard sale on the top of it. Left also looks like a smoother transition from the booster to the plate. The throttle plate itself looks to have blind screws. What about these two 1.58" v HP-style bodies that both have .600" ID 12-hole annular boosters? Do you see 20 CFM difference in flow between them? Last edited by BradH; 01/24/19 05:22 PM.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611676 01/24/19 05:19 PM 01/24/19 05:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky justinp61 I Live Here
justinp61 I Live Here Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky	Originally Posted By BradH Originally Posted By justinp61 I have the same BX4 main body with down leg boosters... It should look familiar... that's a picture that you posted which I cropped to show only the BLP body. You dog! lol

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611689 01/24/19 05:36 PM 01/24/19 05:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	Quote: The throttle plate itself looks to have blind screws. Throttle plate? Screws? On the left? It looks more like a main body sitting on a table to me. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: justinp61] #2611694 01/24/19 05:39 PM 01/24/19 05:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	Originally Posted By justinp61 I have the same BX4 main body with down leg boosters on my pump gas 434 small block and have wondered if annulars would be better for my street/strip use. My carb started as a Bigs 950HP, if I can come up with a four corner idle 1 3/4" base plate I'm thinking about building the 950 to test at the strip against the BX4. I’m sure Summit will happily take your cc number and send you something suitable. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2611696 01/24/19 05:40 PM 01/24/19 05:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth Quote: The throttle plate itself looks to have blind screws. Throttle plate? Screws? On the left? It looks more like a main body sitting on a table to me. Nice table cloth! Yeah, ain't nuthin' but a bare body shown for the BLP.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: justinp61] #2611703 01/24/19 05:47 PM 01/24/19 05:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By justinp61 My carb started as a Bigs 950HP... Funny thing... what Bigs calls a "950" uses the 1.40" venturi main body that QFT/Proform call an "850". The QFT/Proform "950" has a 1.45" venturi, along w/ stepped downleg boosters, rather than non-stepped downlegs their "850" uses.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611711 01/24/19 05:57 PM 01/24/19 05:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,892 S.E. Michigan ZIPPY I Live Here
ZIPPY I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,892 S.E. Michigan	It seems the number is marketing hoo-ha? Hijack: Would you happen to know of any reason I can't put Proform or QFT metering blocks on my old "1000" (?) Race Demon? The way the bowl sort of wraps around the stock metering blocks makes me question it some. I'd like to get a better tune happening on it as soon as I get some more test time with the QFT Brawler 950. Rich H. Esse Quam Videri

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2611747 01/24/19 07:28 PM 01/24/19 07:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,363 Cotati, CA Dave Hall top fuel
Dave Hall top fuel Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,363 Cotati, CA	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth Quote: The throttle plate itself looks to have blind screws. Throttle plate? Screws? On the left? It looks more like a main body sitting on a table to me. Haha! I looked at it at least twice too!

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611751 01/24/19 07:33 PM 01/24/19 07:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,363 Cotati, CA Dave Hall top fuel
Dave Hall top fuel Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,363 Cotati, CA	If I had to guess the right one flows better. I know nothing about it (obviously) so I have to go with my eye which sees invisible throttle plates!

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611829 01/24/19 10:34 PM 01/24/19 10:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 528 N.W. Indiana DblOJoe mopar
DblOJoe mopar Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 528 N.W. Indiana	I'm just gonna say now my bet is the 1.425" v is gonna perform at the track.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2611988 01/25/19 12:06 PM 01/25/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi ccdave The Ultimate
ccdave The Ultimate Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi	Originally Posted By BradH Originally Posted By ccdave Those are all very nice however you may want to try a BLP main body from Dominic at Thumper carbs. You won't be disappointed. The BLP is the ultimate 4150 main body. I've asked for before & after test data on like-for-like venturi size & booster config comparing the BLP BX4 main body against the "traditional" HP-type 4150 main body, but have yet to see any. I've seen the claims by the carb builders using that style of main body. It's pretty simple IMO: if they ET & MPH better than properly-tuned carbs of the same config that use HP-style main bodies, that would tell me there's something to the design. Do they look cool? Yep. Do they look like they "should" be an improvement vs the older style designs? Yep Have I seen anything "real world" to justify making the switch? Still waiting... Looks like you have already made a MASSAVE investment in cast 4150 carbs and parts. At this point why wait for someone to post results on the capabilities of a BLP main body when you can simply buy one and try it out???

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: DblOJoe] #2611996 01/25/19 12:23 PM 01/25/19 12:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	The ol' Gold Claw has worked well, once the original (horrible) BG tune was corrected. But I've seen it give up 10 HP and comparable torque to Dwayne's old-school CFS-modified Holley 850 annular. I'm hoping that somewhere in this pile of shiny sh!t there's another carb that will do better, which is why the GC is still the baseline.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: ccdave] #2611999 01/25/19 12:26 PM 01/25/19 12:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By ccdave Looks like you have already made a MASSAVE investment in cast 4150 carbs and parts. At this point why wait for someone to post results on the capabilities of a BLP main body when you can simply buy one and try it out??? It would be nice if someone else had spent the $$$ already for the parts & tuning time, instead of leaving me to do it only to find out that looks ain't everything!

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2612010 01/25/19 12:41 PM 01/25/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 528 N.W. Indiana DblOJoe mopar
DblOJoe mopar Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 528 N.W. Indiana	I had a old 850 annular that drove great around the pits and I thought ran pretty good on the track. Put a small 950hp on it and went a tenth quicker. Mostly due to shift recovery. Both were out of the box though so I'm kinda interested in your results.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2612012 01/25/19 12:50 PM 01/25/19 12:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	What kind of $$$ are we talking for one of those BLP bodies? 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2612024 01/25/19 01:13 PM 01/25/19 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth What kind of $$$ are we talking for one of those BLP bodies? Bare uncoated BX4 body $208 (no boosters) Coated version for $226 + cost of boosters... maybe $40 for banjos & $50 for billet inserts + cost of installation (requires some special adapter that the standard booster installation tool doesn't come with, IIRC) I dunno... maybe $350+ ?

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2612095 01/25/19 03:18 PM 01/25/19 03:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	Okay....... so not crazy money. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2612106 01/25/19 03:50 PM 01/25/19 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,041 MN J JERICOGTX I Live Here
JERICOGTX I Live Here J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,041 MN	So is the Challenger running again? 69 GTX 68 Road Runner

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: JERICOGTX] #2612220 01/25/19 07:26 PM 01/25/19 07:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By JERICOGTX So is the Challenger running again? Still ...

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2612222 01/25/19 07:28 PM 01/25/19 07:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth Okay....... so not crazy money. No, but not a priority, either. I have other things to spend the $ on at this time.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2612312 01/25/19 10:42 PM 01/25/19 10:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	I wasn’t suggesting you buy one....... I was really just curious about the cost. 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2612872 01/27/19 02:07 AM 01/27/19 02:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi ccdave The Ultimate
ccdave The Ultimate Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 Mopar Country, Mi	Just buy a BLP main body and get er done!! Sell one of those dinosaur carbs on Craigslist to recoop your $$$$. This will end the debate and you finally be able to sleep. I really like mine!!!!!!!!

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2613010 01/27/19 12:42 PM 01/27/19 12:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky justinp61 I Live Here
justinp61 I Live Here Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth What kind of $$$ are we talking for one of those BLP bodies? $256 uncoated with boosters, air bleeds and squirters. https://blp.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_397&products_id=1601 The BLP BX4 and Bigs HP bodies.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2613013 01/27/19 12:53 PM 01/27/19 12:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky justinp61 I Live Here
justinp61 I Live Here Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky	If someone is considering the BLP BX4 main body be aware that Holley air bleeds won't work in them unless they are turned down. I made a fixture to use in my lathe out of a piece of 3/4" aluminum round stock. When I bought my body there was nothing in the description about the difference in the bleeds. When I received mine I was somewhat pi$$ed that my bleeds wouldn't work. The guys BLP stepped up and sent me what I needed and now there is a note at the bottom of the web page noting that BLP bleeds are needed.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: justinp61] #2613062 01/27/19 03:08 PM 01/27/19 03:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	Originally Posted By justinp61 Originally Posted By fast68plymouth What kind of $$$ are we talking for one of those BLP bodies? $256 uncoated with boosters, air bleeds and squirters. https://blp.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_397&products_id=1601 The BLP BX4 and Bigs HP bodies. Have you ever back-to-backed the two, either on the dyno or at the track? 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: ccdave] #2613082 01/27/19 04:08 PM 01/27/19 04:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 610 long time lurker, short time p... P PorkyPig mopar
PorkyPig mopar P Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 610 long time lurker, short time p...	Originally Posted By ccdave Just buy a BLP main body and get er done!! Sell one of those dinosaur carbs on Craigslist to recoop your $$$$. This will end the debate and you finally be able to sleep. I really like mine!!!!!!!! Shiny or not, all carbs are dinosaurs compared to a good EFI system.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2613083 01/27/19 04:11 PM 01/27/19 04:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 610 long time lurker, short time p... P PorkyPig mopar
PorkyPig mopar P Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 610 long time lurker, short time p...	Originally Posted By BradH Originally Posted By JERICOGTX So is the Challenger running again? Still ... Like The Haze?

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2613090 01/27/19 04:34 PM 01/27/19 04:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky justinp61 I Live Here
justinp61 I Live Here Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth Originally Posted By justinp61 Originally Posted By fast68plymouth What kind of $$$ are we talking for one of those BLP bodies? $256 uncoated with boosters, air bleeds and squirters. https://blp.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_397&products_id=1601 The BLP BX4 and Bigs HP bodies. Have you ever back-to-backed the two, either on the dyno or at the track? No, I used the base plate, metering blocks and bowls off the 950 on the new BLP main body. I have everything but the base plate to build the 950 and I think I still have my notes from the dyno to set it up by. If I come up with a base plate I'll do back to back test at the drag strip. I'm thinking of selling my car so it may not happen.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: BradH] #2613115 01/27/19 05:38 PM 01/27/19 05:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt. F fast68plymouth I Live Here
fast68plymouth I Live Here F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,506 So. Burlington, Vt.	When you dynoed the motor which carb body did you use? Selling the car? Going late model? 68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: PorkyPig] #2613135 01/27/19 06:35 PM 01/27/19 06:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington M madscientist master
madscientist master M Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 4,457 Washington	Originally Posted By PorkyPig Originally Posted By ccdave Just buy a BLP main body and get er done!! Sell one of those dinosaur carbs on Craigslist to recoop your $$$$. This will end the debate and you finally be able to sleep. I really like mine!!!!!!!! Shiny or not, all carbs are dinosaurs compared to a good EFI system. Not hardly. We were told that lie about PS. A good carb is hard to beat. Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: PorkyPig] #2613166 01/27/19 08:04 PM 01/27/19 08:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By PorkyPig Originally Posted By BradH Originally Posted By JERICOGTX So is the Challenger running again? Still ... Like The Haze? Naaaahhhh... Last I heard, The Haze was sleeping in darkness, or something like that. The MoPig's in a perfectly well-lit garage gathering dust between infrequent wrenching sessions.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: ccdave] #2613191 01/27/19 08:52 PM 01/27/19 08:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car
BradH OP Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Originally Posted By ccdave Just buy a BLP main body and get er done!! Sell one of those dinosaur carbs on Craigslist to recoop your $$$$. This will end the debate and you finally be able to sleep. I really like mine!!!!!!!! I really like my BG Gold Claw, too. And Dwayne's not-a-spec-of-billet CFS-modified original 4781 850 dp made 10 HP more and better torque across the RPM range than the BG when we tested both of them. That's not even using an HP-style main body. Like I said previously, the BX4 bodies LOOK like they should work better, but that's no guaranty it'll show up on my ET slip. Therefore, trying a billet main body is a wait & see thing and may not ever happen.

Re: Change in direction w/ carburetor [Re: fast68plymouth] #2613202 01/27/19 09:14 PM 01/27/19 09:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky justinp61 I Live Here
justinp61 I Live Here Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky	Originally Posted By fast68plymouth When you dynoed the motor which carb body did you use? Selling the car? Going late model? It was dynoed with the 950HP. I'm thinking about selling the Dart and buying a newish Challenger, low mile Hellcats can be had in the 48-50K range around here. Or sell the Dart and build my 65 Dart to run some street car stuff that's popular around here. The 69 is not going to get cut up but it wouldn't bother me to strip/cut the 65. It would be ugly, but it would also be light and light cars are easier to make fast.

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