World block general info...rear main seal retainer machining
#2599036
12/31/18 01:14 AM
12/31/18 01:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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OP
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S.E. Michigan
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Not sure if there's any interest or maybe I'm the only one who didn't know it....but I thought it was worthwhile to point out.
Sometime between 2008 and 2011 the machining Changed. I'm not sure exactly what drove this because nobody told us (former) tech guys about it. I found a doweled retainer laying around and couldn't figure out who had made it. As it turned out it was for a later block than what I had become accustomed to working with. The only detailed work I've done is with '08 blocks and there were some little changes.
In order the first pic should show 2011 world retainer, 2008-era MP/world retainer, 440 source, and stock.
Next pic, a close-up of 2011 vs. 2008
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: World block general info rear main seal retainer
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2599038
12/31/18 01:23 AM
12/31/18 01:23 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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OP
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Now a 2008 block vs. a 2011 block.
It's such a simple little thing, it takes two seconds to see it here but took quite awhile longer to figure it out as I originally assumed someone had customized it into existence.
The '08 is just as good as a stocker.
The 2011 is a little better.
You can use the old retainer on anything, but the new retainer will only work on the newer block, unless you pull the dowels (but who would do that).
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: World block general info rear main seal retainer
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2599090
12/31/18 05:26 AM
12/31/18 05:26 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464
Sydney,Australia
tex013
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464
Sydney,Australia
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Thanks for this Zippy
Happy new year
Mine will be when my short motor is ready
Tex
New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: World block general info rear main seal retainer
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2599180
12/31/18 01:27 PM
12/31/18 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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The thing that should be checked on any of the world blocks is, the alignment, left and right, of the seal channel between the upper and lower halves(block and retainer).
Just put the retainer in the block without the seal or crank and see how the parting line, lines up.
It’s often “not good”....... and in my case was remedied by using a different cap.
With the as delivered cap, the parting line was not close to “even”, and the two halves of the seal were equally mismatched when installed.
A quick test with an old oe retainer confirmed the problem was with the retainer, and that the groove in the block itself was fine.
I talked to another builder about it who had used several of those blocks, who said he had several of those defective MP caps hanging on a peg hook.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: World block general info rear main seal retainer
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2599289
12/31/18 04:02 PM
12/31/18 04:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
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The thing that should be checked on any of the world blocks is, the alignment, left and right, of the seal channel between the upper and lower halves(block and retainer).
Just put the retainer in the block without the seal or crank and see how the parting line, lines up.
It’s often “not good”....... and in my case was remedied by using a different cap.
With the as delivered cap, the parting line was not close to “even”, and the two halves of the seal were equally mismatched when installed.
A quick test with an old oe retainer confirmed the problem was with the retainer, and that the groove in the block itself was fine.
I talked to another builder about it who had used several of those blocks, who said he had several of those defective MP caps hanging on a peg hook. Priceless info, there. BTW I went full circle on this deal, my hunch was (partially) confirmed this morning by Chrysler Engineering, the transitional year to the doweled cap had to have been 2011. The crate engine builders of that timeframe didn't care for the seal retainer setup. My engineer recalls one of their complaints being sloppy front to rear fit. Of course these stories are usually longer than will fit into a text, so I'm sure there could have been more to it. I guess we know now why the seal retainer was doweled into place and reworked overall. Turns out was a Chrysler directed change, not a world products change as I had first assumed.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: World block general info rear main seal retainer
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2599298
12/31/18 04:10 PM
12/31/18 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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I have built 4 world blocks and each one I used a stock retainer. I have fixed two that leaked with the fancy billet retainers.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: World block general info rear main seal retainer
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2599303
12/31/18 04:16 PM
12/31/18 04:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,504
So. Burlington, Vt.
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The one that bit me wouldn’t have been any better if there were dowels in the cap.
Those caps had very little lateral movement.
The seal groove was machined offset to one side....... the fix was replacement.
I had either a Mancini or Indy cap here on the shelf...... the groove lined right up........ no more leak.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: World block general info rear main seal retainer
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2599306
12/31/18 04:22 PM
12/31/18 04:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
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I have built 4 world blocks and each one I used a stock retainer. I have fixed two that leaked with the fancy billet retainers. I am really not 100% sold on billet. If it fits too tight, the retainer can prevent the seal halves from self aligning when installed offset. So I guess I am used to the sloppy fit and it seems normal to me, but I'm basically nobody. I'm going to grab a few spare stock ones from swap meets here and there. Because...well you never know. Oh....side note... I also noticed recently the seal retainer bolts 440 S@urce sells are longer than stock. They will work for me just fine, but what if someone didn't check....
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Re: World block general info rear main seal retainer
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2599314
12/31/18 04:37 PM
12/31/18 04:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,864
S.E. Michigan
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The one that bit me wouldn’t have been any better if there were dowels in the cap.
Those caps had very little lateral movement.
The seal groove was machined offset to one side....... the fix was replacement.
I had either a Mancini or Indy cap here on the shelf...... the groove lined right up........ no more leak. Dwayne I am SMH. If my Blue MP retainer ends up being a pos, will point it out on the ugly picture thread.
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