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Mill Scale May Keep On Rusting #2493496
05/08/18 04:39 AM
05/08/18 04:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340 Offline OP
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kentj340  Offline OP
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This discussion is a continuation of this previous thread:

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post2482406

I decided to write about the special case of rusting caused by mill scale, because I haven’t seen it discussed here before. The problem is well known by fabricators and owners of large steel structures, as all hot-rolled structural steel has mill scale. Cars are mostly made of cold rolled steel without mill scale.

A few forged or hot worked parts, namely the bumper supports and the anti-sway bar, had paint applied by the factory over the mill scale that resulted from the hot working. Factory paint over mill scale presents a problem for restoration of possible ongoing rusting that should be understood and fixed, or the parts may keep on rusting even under new paint.

The bumper supports and anti-sway bar on my car had more rust damage than other parts of the car, not counting body panel perforations in the usual places. I believe mill scale was the culprit.

Mill scale is an iron oxide called “black rust” that is not as destructive as red rust. However, this black rust is often unstable and prone to change to red rust. When paint is applied over existing mill scale, in time the mill scale may change to red rust, causing rusting under the paint. As long as any mill scale remains, the chance of red rusting continues.

One recommended way to remove all the mill scale is by “white” blasting. The term “white” denotes the appearance of blasted steel when totally all black rust has been removed down to bare metal. But some restorers prefer to de-rust with Evapo-Rust rather than blasting. I have a small blast cabinet, but I’d rather use chemical de-rusting.

Mill scale will not be removed by Evapo-Rust except by extended submersion and some physical removal. Some effective means of physical removal are by powered wire brush, wet sanding, and “pecking” at thick deposits with a hand held chisel (without a hammer). Extra thick deposits of mill scale may happen when loose flakes of mill scale are pushed or pounded into hot metal by rolls or hammers. This condition is called “rolled-in mill scale” or “scabs” and requires special physical treatment to remove when using Evapo-Rust.

The photo with red background at the top of the other thread shows a part that was dipped in Evapo-Rust for a short time, probably a half hour to a few hours. The part is still black with mill scale after cleaning with mineral spirits. Evapo-Rust coats parts with a black carbon solution that should not be confused with black rust or mill scale. The black solution is readily removed by applying mineral spirits with a brush and wiping with a rag.

In this photo the part has been in Evapo-Rust for two days and still has mill scale as evidenced by blackness remaining after cleaning and wiping with mineral spirits, power wire brushing, wet sanding for a few minutes, and cleaning and wiping again. It will need another one or two days of immersion to get down to shiny metal.


23-9 Bumper Support, front.unremoved mill scale..jpg

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Re: Mill Scale May Keep On Rusting [Re: kentj340] #2493498
05/08/18 04:46 AM
05/08/18 04:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340 Offline OP
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This part has a pocket of deeply embedded mill scale just right of center. It will need to be “pecked” by hitting it with the corner of a chisel in short and fast strokes.

Next photo shows hitting with a chisel, no hammer.

23-9 Bumper Support, front.deep mill scale, possibly rolled in..jpg23-9 Bumper Support, front.pecking deep mill scale with a hand held chisel.jpg

If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
Re: Mill Scale May Keep On Rusting [Re: kentj340] #2493499
05/08/18 04:48 AM
05/08/18 04:48 AM
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Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340 Offline OP
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The resulting peck marks are tiny. The deposit is gone, and shiny metal is showing.

23-9 Bumper Support, front.pecking marks to remove deep mill scale1.jpg

If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
Re: Mill Scale May Keep On Rusting [Re: kentj340] #2493500
05/08/18 04:50 AM
05/08/18 04:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340 Offline OP
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Rolled-in mill scale occurred in the edges of all my bumper supports. All of the mill scale in this photo is gone, leaving indentations, except the one place right of center still shows a small deposit of deeply embedded mill scale.

23-9 Bumper Support, front.mill scale was rolled into edge1.jpg

If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
Re: Mill Scale May Keep On Rusting [Re: kentj340] #2493501
05/08/18 04:52 AM
05/08/18 04:52 AM
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Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340 Offline OP
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This one support shows strange surface erosion. The lighter areas are higher, and the darker areas are lower. Since silvery metal color is not showing all over, the part still has mill scale and is not finished yet.

23-9 Bumper Support, front.unremoved mill scale.2.jpg

If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.
Re: Mill Scale May Keep On Rusting [Re: kentj340] #2493502
05/08/18 04:54 AM
05/08/18 04:54 AM
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Posts: 1,655
Cut and Shoot, TX
kentj340 Offline OP
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This part is silvery metal colored all over, is finished, and is ready for a coat of phosphoric acid followed by a final wash with mineral spirits to remove excess acid. Rust pits will be filled before painting. Wire brush in a drill motor and pecking chisel are shown.

23-9 Bumper Support, front.all mill scale removed and ready for paint..jpg

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Re: Mill Scale May Keep On Rusting [Re: kentj340] #2493596
05/08/18 12:37 PM
05/08/18 12:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
Don't question me!
Stanton  Offline
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Ontario, Canada
I deal with mill scale regularly on a product I build. I normally don't worry to much about it BUT if it gets moisture sitting on it for a while (like cutting fluid) it will rust. Mill scale is a very tough customer and even grinding it off isn't easy. When I absolutely need to remove it I use a strong acid solution (Muriatic 50/50 with water). This is dangerous to use but it does work. But the parts flash rust quickly afterwards so I then coat them with WD40 until I decide to paint or whatever.

Re: Mill Scale May Keep On Rusting [Re: kentj340] #2493616
05/08/18 01:08 PM
05/08/18 01:08 PM
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Jefferson State
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srt Offline
ESYC
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Jefferson State
Great info. Thank you for taking the time to investigate, explore and report.
Mill-scale has been the bane of structural steel in other applications.
I can recall standard practice in bridge work was pin descaling and repainting several times over the years as the scale slowly converted to red rust (iron oxide). Mechanical descaling seems to be the stand-by means of dealing with it.







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