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Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2493929
05/09/18 12:57 PM
05/09/18 12:57 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Aurora, Colorado
I know money can be tight, but I'd save up to rebuild the engine correctly. To me, the path your taking with the engine is likely to result in problems and you will be re-doing the engine again shortly after getting it back together.

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2493948
05/09/18 02:08 PM
05/09/18 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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dogdays Offline
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DO get prices written down by your machine shop before you spend a nickel.
Measure how far down in the bore the pistons are at TDC. They could be 0.185" down. Those latest model RBs ran about 7.2:1 actual compression.

Assume that the valves need to be ground and that probably means new guides. You need at least stock HP springs, but really you need whatever springs your cam manufacturer calls out.

For stock heads the KB step dome pistons like the KB184 work to get squish into the chamber. They are stock replacement weight so no rebalancing. There will probably be an extra step in the machining process but it's worth it.

I've reused quite a few cranks without machine work. I've done the same with stock rods. On cranks the major wear happens on the underside of the rod journal. Check for consistent diameters around the journal.

On rods if you reuse the stockers pay attention as you're torqueing the rod bolts. If the bolt is going to yield you'll pull the average amount for the other bolts but the torque doesn't increase, if a click type the wrench never clicks. Before you spend any money on stock rods, consider the 440Source stock replacement rods for $250.

R.

The head gaskets make me uneasy because I don't think they're stock, meaning someone has been in the engine before.

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2494017
05/09/18 04:40 PM
05/09/18 04:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,126
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
I finally realized that your working on a 440 pick up truck motor, not a 400 blush realcrazy
Check on the prices to fix your heads and if it costs you more than $700.00 to $800.00 I would buy a new set of aluminum heads like the 440 Source brand or Eddy E heads for a little more money or maybe some of the other cheaper China import 440 aluminum heads scope
They will flow better and make more torque and HP and run better on todays pump fuel also up
On the piston selection wait until you know which cylinder heads your going to use and the combustion chamber size and metal type, if you use new aluminum heads you can run more compression safely than you can with the same size combustion chambers with a iron head work scope
Check with United machine on their Silvolite cast piston line for your rebuild. I would shoot for less than 9.5 to 1 compression ratio with iron heads and less than 10.5 to 1 with aluminum heads twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2494048
05/09/18 05:38 PM
05/09/18 05:38 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 287
NW Illinois
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MoonshineMattK Offline
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NW Illinois
Originally Posted By Mr onetwo
Any tips on pulling the main bearing caps?The fsm calls for a C3059 removal tool, but there are none to rent.I punched out all the freeze plugs in the block and it was full of this grey sludge.Maybe I should just pull all the pistons and the cam, then send the crank,block and heads to the machine shop to be checked out.I do want to do this correctly, just don't have thousands of dollars to spend.I have posted a picture of the back of the dampner...it is ruined or salvageable?I did find mention of the "Maltese cross plus X" stamped on the engine pad,in the FSM and will alert the machine shop.



Maltese cross and X are factory undersize crank

Last edited by MoonshineMattK; 05/10/18 03:40 AM.
Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2494124
05/09/18 09:56 PM
05/09/18 09:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
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Porter67 Offline
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Ive done simple hone,re-ring,bearings, valve job and a good cam on low comp mopars and pont. big blocks and even ran a 150 shot on them from time to time and they lasted 40-60k of fun hard street bashing way back in the 80-s and would even beat a improperly built car from time to time.

What was the good stocker vert, the "J".

They were strong enough to break fresh trannys and rear diffs and the worst I ever did it break a oem timing chain.

I think alot forget what we used to do and had a heck of a good time doing it.

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Porter67] #2494140
05/09/18 10:32 PM
05/09/18 10:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,025
Benton, IL.
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DaveRS23 Offline
Special needs idiot
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Originally Posted By EV2Bird


I think alot forget what we used to do and had a heck of a good time doing it.


That may be true, but we have different fuels today and different expectations.


Master, again and still
Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: dogdays] #2494441
05/10/18 04:35 PM
05/10/18 04:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
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Manitoba, Canada
Originally Posted By dogdays

The head gaskets make me uneasy because I don't think they're stock, meaning someone has been in the engine before.


Someone's been in there before, no doubt about that.

A set of TRW 2355's would bump up the compression and weigh close enough to stock pistons that you could think about squeeking by without balancing. They would be a good choice if you were looking at an aftermarket closed chambered head. A rumpety cam like that hughes whiplash really has no place in a truck with efi and a low-cr engine.

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #2494483
05/10/18 06:29 PM
05/10/18 06:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 195
Coastal Maine
Mr onetwo Offline OP
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Mr onetwo  Offline OP
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Coastal Maine
Originally Posted By DaytonaTurbo
Originally Posted By dogdays

The head gaskets make me uneasy because I don't think they're stock, meaning someone has been in the engine before.


Someone's been in there before, no doubt about that.

A set of TRW 2355's would bump up the compression and weigh close enough to stock pistons that you could think about squeeking by without balancing. They would be a good choice if you were looking at an aftermarket closed chambered head. A rumpety cam like that hughes whiplash really has no place in a truck with efi and a low-cr engine.
I thought that was the express purpose for the whiplash cam....to wake up a low compression smog motor like mine?

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2494484
05/10/18 06:33 PM
05/10/18 06:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 195
Coastal Maine
Mr onetwo Offline OP
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Mr onetwo  Offline OP
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Coastal Maine
a couple more photos...it's on a pallet and off to the machine shop.I let you know what they tell me in about a week.Wish me luck!

DSCN2007.JPGDSCN2008.JPGDSCN2010.JPGDSCN2009.JPG
Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2494811
05/11/18 04:15 PM
05/11/18 04:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted By Mr onetwo
Pulled the pistons last night and cleaned the bores.The ridge isn't as bad as it looks in the pictures.The crank journals look perfect and the rods seem ok although 1 is a bit tight.Will get the taper and wear measured by a machinist today.Do you guys have any other recommendations on what stock pistons would be best for better compression?I am going to try and find the best used set of pistons I can to save money.Thanks!


You have to have the ridge removed if you want to put in a taller CH piston in there, otherwise it might break piston rings.


running up my post count some more .
Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2494820
05/11/18 05:07 PM
05/11/18 05:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Originally Posted By Mr onetwo
I thought that was the express purpose for the whiplash cam....to wake up a low compression smog motor like mine?


Yes but in a car with 4.10 gears not a 4x4. The whiplash cams are ground for low vacuum at idle and a rumpety idle for more show than go. Not usually a good choice for an efi system.

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2494856
05/11/18 06:51 PM
05/11/18 06:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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camastomcat Offline
top fuel
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Salt Lake City
I would go through it, if it were mine. The bores look like crap, everything looks sludged up, and it probably needs rings and a valve job at the least. Also, lifters, cam and m,ore compression as mentioned. IMO, you'll be sorry if you don't.

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2494938
05/11/18 10:48 PM
05/11/18 10:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,807
Mopar Country, Mi
ccdave Offline
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Mopar Country, Mi
Best advice I can give you is to save your money and build it right the first time.
Save for the following:

Lightweight forged aluminum pistons

H beam rods

Hyd roller cam and lifters

Aluminum heads. Cheap aluminum heads will be better than and cost the same as prepped stock heads.

Aluminum dual plane intake

You will have a very nice reliable 446ci engine that will make decent horsepower

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: ccdave] #2497642
05/18/18 06:52 PM
05/18/18 06:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 195
Coastal Maine
Mr onetwo Offline OP
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Mr onetwo  Offline OP
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Coastal Maine
I stopped into the machine shop today and got good and bad news.The block needs to be bored, but everything else is in really great shape.The crank is not undersized as the stamping indicates and the heads have already been done at some point.Valves and springs look new, seats were all good and guides are all within spec.Now I need advice on which pistons to get.1978 stock silv-o-lites, 1967 higher compression 350NP-30's, KB184's or maybe speedpro forged....I don't know.Will get new stock pushrods and the stock rockers look fine.This is all about budget.I want a nice running motor, but not a dog.I need low compression cam advice too!

Last edited by Mr onetwo; 05/18/18 06:53 PM.
Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2497648
05/18/18 07:17 PM
05/18/18 07:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
pro stock
Biginchmopar  Offline
pro stock

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Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
If you're getting new pistons, get something that is close to zero deck so you will get some compression, at least 9.5:1. The old Silv-o-lite's will work great. That will help and then some type of RV cam to top it off. With new oils today make sure you get oils with zink and or add a lot of it. Flat tappet cams need it and you will kill the cam without it.

Clean EVERYTHING! Use a break-in oil, I know you said budget but this is insurance. Break in the cam and dump the oil. Make sure you keep it clean and change the oil often in the beginning.

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2497653
05/18/18 07:27 PM
05/18/18 07:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
Biginchmopar Offline
pro stock
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Posts: 1,397
Carson City, Nevada
KB-237 for pistons

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Biginchmopar] #2497784
05/19/18 03:07 AM
05/19/18 03:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 195
Coastal Maine
Mr onetwo Offline OP
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Mr onetwo  Offline OP
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Coastal Maine
I am leaning towards the Speed Pro L2266F30 set with Hastings moly rings for around $395 @ Summit. I can get a set of 350NP-30 with iron rings @ Falcon Global for $315.Is forged with moly rings overkill on a stock low budget rebuilt motor?

Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2497785
05/19/18 03:10 AM
05/19/18 03:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 195
Coastal Maine
Mr onetwo Offline OP
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Mr onetwo  Offline OP
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Coastal Maine
What would the specs on a proper RV type cam be for a motor with around 9 to 1 compression? Sorry for my ignorance on cam selection.Falcon has this cam for $85 ...any good?

cam.JPG
Last edited by Mr onetwo; 05/19/18 03:12 AM.
Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2497788
05/19/18 03:53 AM
05/19/18 03:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
Originally Posted By Mr onetwo
I am leaning towards the Speed Pro L2266F30 set with Hastings moly rings for around $395 @ Summit. I can get a set of 350NP-30 with iron rings @ Falcon Global for $315.Is forged with moly rings overkill on a stock low budget rebuilt motor?
yes overkill, this is a low RPM truck torque build. I would suggest some eBay cast cheapies/moly rings or kb hypers (which are way better but more $$) and you need more compression which the KB's would give you & you likely could get quench if you go with some aftermarket closed chamber heads & carefull measureing & as said heads are gonna be the big expense on this as rebuilding a set of iron stockers can approach a set of aluminum aftermarket ones (stealths) tho you might be able to get by with a valve job (odds ain't good) & are they flat tho with composition head gaskets you can have a bit of warp & they lower your already low SCR as opposed to the OE steel shim thin head gaskets. I would get some plasma moly rings (& cast pistons off of eBay) & after the shop bores/hones, you do a quick hone with a Brush Research Manufacturing dingle berry hone for moly rings and your bore size or have them do it (its worth it).


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Engine condition Opinions? [Re: Mr onetwo] #2497815
05/19/18 10:57 AM
05/19/18 10:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 277
MN
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Willie68coronet Offline
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MN
Originally Posted By Mr onetwo
I am leaning towards the Speed Pro L2266F30 set with Hastings moly rings for around $395 @ Summit. I can get a set of 350NP-30 with iron rings @ Falcon Global for $315.Is forged with moly rings overkill on a stock low budget rebuilt motor?


I think those are the flat top no valve relief pistons that have a really short compression height. Look into wisco pro tru street. Comes with moly rings and the price will be close to the 2266 with rings.

here: wiseco summit

Won't be zero deck but a lot closer than the 2266's.


'68 Coronet 500 w/ Indy EZ-1 headed 446, 727 trans, 9" rear
First day at the track with SUV street tires and no traction: 1.688 60', 7.24 @ 101.79 in the 1/8 mile

Great customer service from: DominicThumper Carbs, B3 racing engines, Porter Racing Engines, A-1 torque converter's, Quick Performance, Racer Brown Cams, R&R Performance, Manton pushrods

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