Well, I know this is going to get all kind of opinions but need some help. Doing a resto on my son's 72 Cuda. Was an orignal 340 /3 speed car. Motor trans long gone. Started out as a budget build cause my son is in college. well he graduates in May and has a job. YEA !! So he will have college debt etc but now he can build more on what he wants . so the question-What motor to build? Wants a nice driving car 450hp + that can be driven daily. Car came with a 72-340 cast crank needs complete rebuild, Have a running 360 magnum motor with 84K on it.( see these 360 builds putting out 450hp) Or thoughts now are to find a wrecked Challenger 6.1, 6.4 with a stick and install that set up. Trying to find expense of a swap to gen 3 and what it will take to do a gen3 with a stick. What forum would be the best to get thoughts on an over all resto input?? Thoughts on build/ motor??

Hemi. Not really but I wanted to say it first

450 horsepower isn't much of a challenge anymore with a Mopar with the distributor in the front or back. If you have a small block, build a small block. You won't need to buy all the different stuff to switch over to a big block. Using what you have is probably going to the cheapest route. But 450 out of a 440 can be done with cast heads, stock crank, stock rods, etc.
Buying a crate 6.4 will give you 485 and you don't have to build anything. Motor mounts are available, headers are available, and running a manual transmission is as easy as bolting an 833 to a small block.
But there's something to be said for the savings of using what you already have. My vote is for a small block.
The 340 with a 4" stroke crank and decent heads and compression will be an easy 450 horsepower, and mild mannered.

Hard to get any cooler than aHemi Cuda. Go for it!

450HP begs the questions "how streetable/mild-mannered" and "what's your budget"?
360 LA vs Stroker SB vs Gen3 comes down to budget, what you can find in a good/used Gen3, and what you need to buy or fab.
Fuel supply, electronic support, exhaust, converter & trans, maybe shifter are part of the equation too.
GoodysGotACuda here did a Gen3 into his SB '72Cuda as part of a complete & gorgeous rebuild of everything; a good thread, he should be able to give you good info.

If it was me I'd use the 340 block and add a stroker crank. Probably use some Edelbrock heads with a Performer RPM intake and a Super Sniper EFI system. That would be a fairly easy build that would give you good power but be very driveable.

340 stroker would be my first choice, followed by magnum engine stroker. Either one will get you the numbers you want.

Your 450 horsepower goal is so easy in today’s mopar world. If I only wanted or needed 450 horsepower I would sell the 340 for several hundreds and buy a 50.00 360 engine. My preference if money permitted would be a 4 inch stroke 408 with a set of ProMax or slightly modified Sidewinder heads. Talk to one of our cam experts or call Jim at Racer Brown cams and he can fix you up. A gasket matched victor340 and a 750-850 Holley double pumper and you are there. Compliment your build with a set of 3.55-4.10 gears and at least a 4000 stall convertor. You 450 horsepower can be made with the stock 360 crank too so pick your poison.

ok , I'll start looking into my options. Thought if we did a Gen3 and he would have a daily driver that got pretty good mileage. I'm amazed how good my SRT8 gets.It's going to be a stick car. Would like to see what mods are needed for the 6 speed.

Part the floor pan like the Red Sea, cut the torsion bar mount, clearance for room, box it back in, build a transmission hump, build a transmission crossmember, build a driveshaft,install a hydraulic clutch setup, etc etc etc. If you're paying to have all that done, you could probably build 2-3 450 horespower 408's for the same money! Lol.
Of course if you wanted me to take the ragtop off your hands to give you the extra space to fabricate the stuff, I can do that...

I built Nine second Phil a 416 C.I. pump stroker 340 block that made 512 HP with slightly ported W2 heads and Mopar cast single W2 4150 intake with a 850 BG Street Demon using CA pump Swill back in 2002 or so, he put it in a 1969 Baracuda fastback that would run low elevens on the motor only on pump swill
With the better heads and camshaft selection your goals are not hard to achieve
BTW, building either a 340 or 360 block will give you the same results

Well , getting ready to weld in torque boxes, frame ties- whats a hump and a cross member lol. Could still do a hemi and a 833 .

That would be easier, it drops right in.

My wife's Challenger has a 360 +.060". Built years ago before good pistons, aluminum heads, and stroker cranks. Stock ported head (some truck stuff, nothing fancy). 9.0-1 TRW, runs on 86 octane. 224@.050 Crane hyd roller, LD 340 int, 650 Holley, TTI headers,2 1/2 exh. With 3.55 and sticky tires 12.70's@107, slicks and gear 12.50's@110 in street trim with air cleaner and full exhaust. It's a 4 speed with only 2.42 1st gear. I'm sure and auto with a good converter would be better. The late Hemi stuff would be nice but many extra parts to get it completed and installed
Doug

Your budget isnt completely clear from this post, but I'll assume its not as simple as " money is no object".

As much as I love a BBM, for a street car, I simply like the SBM better for a daily driver for two reasons. One, thing fit easier. Two, the lighter weight of the SBM , makes the front end nose weight far less, and simply they drive and handle nicer.

I would, without question, stroke the 340, use a set of Sidewinder heads with a clean up and a proper valve job, go with one of the EFI set ups , and not look back. Straightforward, easy to build, and within a reasonable budget. Just good solid combos.

If you already have a 360 Magnum, 2 options there too. Throw a set of EQ or RHS X heads on it, and it will be a strong runner.

Gen3 certainly all the rave now, but it comes at a cost and more install work. Just depends on what your really looking for.

I had 2 customers at the shop yesterday morning with this exact situation.The 408/416 combos simply made it much more affordable for them to get their projects on the street.500HP on the street , is plenty to get into trouble. Just my 2 cents.

I like all the small block comments so far since I agree that everything fits easier, but since it's a '72 Cuda I'll throw out one more option.
A 400 block with a 440 crank which will give you 451 cubes. You can build it very mild, it will have enough torque to run a streetable tight converter and 3.23-3.55 gears, yet has the ability down the road to be slowly upgraded to a 10 second car when you get bored. My 451 with Eddy heads eventually went 9.89 in the 1/4 and it was a pump gas motor with the 590 cam at 3050 pounds.
The 408/416 small block should be plenty though for what you want to do, I just wanted to give you one more very mild streetable option that could be upgraded over the years.

IMO use what you have to build a nice SB with EFI. Why burden a new grad with more debt or take forever to get him in a cool ride. Plenty of options to build a nice SB, the car is set up for it already and you have some of the pieces. He can always upgrade the car later with ease, but why waste time right now when he could enjoying the car this summer.

Most have pushed you to a stroker LA base with aftermarket heads.
Me I would go G3 .
Stock 5.7 with a cam , long tube headers and FI will net you 450 all day long with 22 MPG .
Now the hard part. Converting will take some knowledge but it's not rocker science!
You don't need FI you could go carb but intakes are more.
Matt

I can’t unders all the love for Efi on old school builds. We have a few members that switched over, made all the tech calls, and their combos still aren’t running right. Carbs are so easy to make right at wholesale prices. I guess it lacks the “cool kid” factor. Lol

Great info going on. friends talk to me going with Fitech. But im hearing alot of different sides. Taking in all this info and putting together. Owned a few 340 motors over the years.Great motors. Was reading in a few magazines about these magnum motors. Thought they were the way to go, but hearing guys still feel the 340 is still the way to go... Ahhh, like trying to buy a pair a tennis shoes, in my day it was either Black or white Converse lol. Now days quite a few options to choose. I'll start putting a spread sheet together with all my options. Lol learning how to do spread sheets at my age lol. This is great info guys ! I like the fact of all the input from all, cause hate to do trail and error when you guys have all ready learned. Truly appreciate all these options. Can use help on this whole build,body suspension etc. Thanks. Drop me an email if you like par12730@sbcglobal.net

John, I agree to a point. I like carbs, they re relatively inexpensive, and simply work.I have seen a lot of the EFI tuning issues, and it depends on the company it was purchased from. its no surprise, a couple of the common EFI companies seem to not have very good tech support.( as witnessed everyday on the interwebs) Thats what happens when you sell a system so cheap, there is not enough profit to re-invest in technical staff. People want cheap, they got cheap.

in this case, I think because its quite honestly, a "younger guy", it makes more sense to go EFI, as thats what they are typically more comfortable with.They do run crisp, can be tuned with some sort of computer or hand held ( once again, thats comfortable to them) and they do typically help quite a bit with fuel mileage.I recently did a 514 BBF, and used the FAST EFI, and I can say I wasnt blown away, but the handheld control was really nice, and all the information was right there, just like a dash mounted GPS. I liked that part.The carb made more power though....Doing a few more EFI deals shortly, we'll see how some of the " budget" EFI's work.

CompWedgeEngines, that is very true, I guarantee my son would rather have the efi and laptop and I wouldn't mind trying it someday but I think the same thing goes with carbs, if you want cheap you will get cheap.
A lot of guys that badly want efi have carbs that don't work right. My ProSystems 950 runs almost like fuel injection, zero problems in any kind of weather or temps. I've had the same good luck with BIGS and Quickfuel.

Hulmule, I read the part earlier where you said the motor and trans were long gone but I failed to see that you have a couple other small block options. So I retract my 451 option, stick with the small block, and try to find a smokin deal on a stroker kit.

if it's a car that your son rally wants to be a driver, i'm betting he would be happier with an simple build on the 360. spend the money on a t56 and put that in there.
a google search of "t56 in a mopar" will bring up lots of hits so you can see what's involved.

EFI VS CARB is like an AK 47 vs a M16 LOL
It all depends on the USER!!!!
Pick your poison and enjoy!
Matt

Totally agree and please explain how "EFI" and "budget" play out here when starting from scratch.............A guy I did a carb for a few years ago converted to EFI because he said the carb leaned out when he went from our 3200+ elevation down to 1000 ft. and was too damn lazy to make the needed changes to fatten it up and I'm not talking jetting just a simple bleed and fuel mixture screw change usually works. Another "I don't want to get my hands dirty" guy but what's funny is that he came by a few months ago to get my opinion on his plugs which were bone white lean then proceeded to call a guy to help him tune over the phone...........

Doesn't answer your question, but many people I know built cars for their children. The results vary, but few turned out as expected. Your dream wasn't his dream. Many were either:
1. If the son had the money (instead of the project) he would have bought a 30 year newer car and left it alone.
2. He got it, he broke it, and he wants you to fix it.
3. He drives his girlfriend's stock Toyota.
4. He wanted a Harley-Davidson.

Another option,,,, 360 with a procharger or turbo. You can have the 450 hp easy, run a highway gear for daily driving, get decent mileage, and idle like a stocker. On top of that, you can build the motor first, then add the type of boost you want down the road aa funds permit. Once you have driven a car with boost, you won't want to go back! it is addictive!!

My vote would be a junkyard 440 with a cam, intake, and headers.
That will make 450 easily. Then when he is ready for 600 or more later, he can build a big block on the side.
My second choice would be a 340/416.

It says you have a 360 Magnum. They have roller lifters and make good power easily. It will fit in the car without re-engineering the wiring and everything else. You could slightly warm up the Magnum and be driving this thing in a month or two rather than rethinking $$$$ everything. It depends if he wants a longterm, expensive project or wants to burn rubber this spring.

Well , it a long term project. Trying to upload a picture. Polyspheric , my son is learning about cars as i did at his age. Got screwed by an engine builder at his age cause i was on my own. So at least he asks for my input. Only bummer is he graduates from college in May and moves away. I'm ok building a car. He will be doing more research after he graduates. Carrying 18 credits, missed the dean's list one semester. He fixes his own car now and works on them at college for kids. Going to start pricing stuff out. But always open to opinions and help for this resto.

The 5.9 Magnum you have makes the most sense and will make the power you want. To do a Hemi you'd have to want to do it as it will be abit more money.

And hes moving away in May. Sounds like a dad project. Do whats easiest for you.

But since you say its a Long term project, g3 if you can handle it. Easy fix stay with the 340 stroker or 360 mag. A g3 project could stall the build for Years, from what your stating.

I helped my son build a 70 duster 340 sixpack as his first car when he was in high school. He drove it until he graduated college, he sold it after he was married and bought his first house. We had great times building it, and he even raced at the track when I took my race car. If I was to build a car for my son to enjoy today, I would go with a gen 3 hemi crate engine. Plenty power and the resale value, at least right know seems to be in the retro rod type car, with late model reliability, and comfort of a new car with the look of an old muscle car.

The biggest question is, What does your son want? He sounds like an intelligent young man (gotta be smart if he's asking the old man for input!) and may have an opinion. I suggest offering up the options you have so far and let him choose.