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#2459546 - 03/01/18 04:16 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: pittsburghracer]
pittsburghracer Online   work
Slowride

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13328
Loc: PA.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.89 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
6.001@113.27mph
9.44@138.23

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2459564 - 03/01/18 05:04 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: pittsburghracer]
Hot 340 Offline
master

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 3181
Loc: Pa
Well, everyone is saying it has changed. Nobody is saying exactly what. But I read it on the internet so it must be true. eyes

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#2459575 - 03/01/18 05:30 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Hot 340]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 872
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
Originally Posted By Hot 340
Well, everyone is saying it has changed. Nobody is saying exactly what. But I read it on the internet so it must be true. eyes



3 reputable engine builders said they stopped using it for a reason.
I tend to believe 3 engine builders that sump most if not all the engines they build for customers.

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#2459698 - 03/01/18 09:35 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: 1964superstock]
davesmopars Offline
master

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 2879
Loc: cheshire, ct
Originally Posted By 1964superstock
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.


Thanks for this info. What oil grade do you recommend for a street strip 505 440 stroker big block, using a solid flat tappet cam, 259/263 @ 050. My 505 engine dyno'd at 620 HP, fun street car. Would you still recommend 15w-50 Driven Engine Oil like bracket type engines, or use 10w-30 or 10w-40 instead? My 505 stroker had really high oil pressure last time I used Brad Penn 20w-50 oil, so I switched to straight 30W Brad Penn. Reading all this makes me a little leary of using BP oil any longer. Your recommendation is appreciated. Thanks.


I also was using 20/50 Brad Penn running similar motor 604 Hemi solid roller so also would like to hear recommendation. street / strip mostly street

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#2459849 - 03/02/18 08:29 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: davesmopars]
DaveRS23 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 4709
Loc: Benton, IL.
Originally Posted By davesmopars
Originally Posted By 1964superstock
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.


Thanks for this info. What oil grade do you recommend for a street strip 505 440 stroker big block, using a solid flat tappet cam, 259/263 @ 050. My 505 engine dyno'd at 620 HP, fun street car. Would you still recommend 15w-50 Driven Engine Oil like bracket type engines, or use 10w-30 or 10w-40 instead? My 505 stroker had really high oil pressure last time I used Brad Penn 20w-50 oil, so I switched to straight 30W Brad Penn. Reading all this makes me a little leary of using BP oil any longer. Your recommendation is appreciated. Thanks.


I also was using 20/50 Brad Penn running similar motor 604 Hemi solid roller so also would like to hear recommendation. street / strip mostly street


I am also "all ears".
_________________________
KOS

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#2459854 - 03/02/18 08:54 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
justinp61 Online   content
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9647
Loc: W. Kentucky
I need oil for my 434 so I e-mailed Driven and asked for a recommendation. For my street/strip application they recommended HR5 10w-40 conventional. I ordered two cases from Speedway.

The tech that replied was Lake Speed Jr., son of former nascar driver Lake Speed who I watched run a bunch of races years ago.

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#2459855 - 03/02/18 08:59 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Chuck@Best_Machine Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 961
Loc: Farmington Hills, Mich
Its impossible for me to recommend one oil that would work for everybody. When we do our engines everything is in our control from bearings, bearing clearance, lifter choice, oil pump, pushrod oiling etc.

But I would suggest for a street / strip car it would be safe to start with the Driven HR 15W-50 Conventional oil, if you have excessive pressure ( 80 + ) with 190 deg oil temp then you might want to try a 10W-40

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#2459898 - 03/02/18 10:37 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine]
Eric Offline


Registered: 07/10/10
Posts: 2350
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
Its impossible for me to recommend one oil that would work for everybody. When we do our engines everything is in our control from bearings, bearing clearance, lifter choice, oil pump, pushrod oiling etc.

But I would suggest for a street / strip car it would be safe to start with the Driven HR 15W-50 Conventional oil, if you have excessive pressure ( 80 + ) with 190 deg oil temp then you might want to try a 10W-40



Chuck ...any experience with the Schaeffers?
_________________________
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!


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#2459963 - 03/02/18 01:16 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
racerhog Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 356
Loc: Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
Wow... IF I could make one recommendation to all y'all that really need help.

USE WHAT YOUR ENGINE BUILDER TELLS YOU TO USE !!!! PERIOD !!!!!
Most folks dont know jack about oils....
_________________________
Bob(Cowboy)Hogan
Monrovia So-Cal

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#2460044 - 03/02/18 04:07 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: racerhog]
Von Offline
master

Registered: 10/15/03
Posts: 3698
Loc: NE Oklahoma
Originally Posted By racerhog


USE WHAT YOUR ENGINE BUILDER TELLS YOU TO USE !!!! PERIOD !!!!!
Most folks dont know jack about oils....


Some engine builders don't know jack about oils....

Not directed towards anybody on here, but just sayin...
_________________________
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

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#2460133 - 03/02/18 05:55 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Von]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13938
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Von
Originally Posted By racerhog


USE WHAT YOUR ENGINE BUILDER TELLS YOU TO USE !!!! PERIOD !!!!!
Most folks dont know jack about oils....


Some engine builders don't know jack about oils....

Not directed towards anybody on here, but just sayin...

Some engine builders don't know jack about building engines, either. But that would be another thread all its own.

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#2460137 - 03/02/18 06:02 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: BradH]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18866
Loc: State of confusion
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Von
Originally Posted By racerhog


USE WHAT YOUR ENGINE BUILDER TELLS YOU TO USE !!!! PERIOD !!!!!
Most folks dont know jack about oils....


Some engine builders don't know jack about oils....

Not directed towards anybody on here, but just sayin...

Some engine builders don't know jack about building engines, either. But that would be another thread all its own.


laugh2 stirthepot penguin
_________________________
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

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#2463325 - 03/08/18 05:56 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 872
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
So which DRIVEN Race Oil would be good for a race only engine shifting at 7600 small block? Going through the traps at 7770 rpm's

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#2463461 - 03/08/18 09:28 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
max_maniac Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 6142
Loc: Aurora, Oh.
We are using the HR 15/50 in a 572 Wedge and a Hemi. The wedge is shifting at 7100 and going through the traps at 7200. Looking to shift a little higher this year.
_________________________


63 Dodge Max Wedge NSS
64 Dodge now with a Hemi
64 Dodge wagon coming soon!

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#2463616 - 03/09/18 08:09 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Tommy D Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 391
Loc: Harleysville, PA USA
Six pages in and not one account of a failure...just rumors. Is this "lube shaming" LOL

We've run Penn Grade (old Brad Penn) for years since losing three separate engines to cam failure. The failures sent debris through the engines and required total rebuilds in all cases. This with flat tappet cams. Since switching to Brad Penn, no failures.

Does anyone have a personal experience with a true, oil-related failure due to Penn Grade? I just bought another case of 10W30, and have no plans to change until proven it's not going to work.


Attachments
Lobe failure.JPG

Magnetic Plug with debris.JPG



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#2463653 - 03/09/18 09:15 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Tommy D]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 872
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
Originally Posted By Tommy D
Six pages in and not one account of a failure...just rumors. Is this "lube shaming" LOL

We've run Penn Grade (old Brad Penn) for years since losing three separate engines to cam failure. The failures sent debris through the engines and required total rebuilds in all cases. This with flat tappet cams. Since switching to Brad Penn, no failures.

Does anyone have a personal experience with a true, oil-related failure due to Penn Grade? I just bought another case of 10W30, and have no plans to change until proven it's not going to work.



You must have missed this reply from Chuck@Best Machine who I trust, same with Todd@ Competition Wedge. Please read.

We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.

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#2463672 - 03/09/18 09:42 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Mattax Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1115
Loc: Phila. Pa.
Viscosities could play a role too.
Last time I was checking viscosities of 40 and 50 wt oils, BP had higher viscosity than others I was looking at in the same grades. That could cause flow issues. Just one of many factors of course, but IMO an important one.

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#2463678 - 03/09/18 09:57 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Mattax]
pittsburghracer Online   work
Slowride

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13328
Loc: PA.
I wonder if these same engines seeing wear have vacuum pumps sucking the oil away from piston pins and oil restriction issues to the rockers causing issues. Spray bar oiling??? I run the hell out of my crap and I'm not seeing it on my engines with Brad Penn 10-30. I'm not saying its not happening because those guys see a heck of a lot more engines than I see. Maybe i'm just lucky.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.89 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
6.001@113.27mph
9.44@138.23

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2463693 - 03/09/18 10:23 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 13938
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Sammy
So which DRIVEN Race Oil would be good for a race only engine shifting at 7600 small block? Going through the traps at 7770 rpm's

My suggestion is to go to the Driven Racing Oil web site and download their product brochures and tech articles. If you read the details of each of their race oils, you'll often see guidance such as using a Xw30 for bearing clearances up to .0027"; Xw40 for up to .0030", etc. They have enough info across their available downloads that it should give you a pretty good sense of what will work for you.

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#2463698 - 03/09/18 10:27 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
A/MP Offline
super stock

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 708
Loc: East Coast
Spent some time trying to find out what is in XP3. Closest explanation is "proprietary". That doesn't say much. Not knocking it but that "word" is way over used.Just as an example, Castrol does not own oil refineries, oil wells, etc. and does nothing more than blend numerous products from numerous vendors to make numerous blends of oils.Unless you are trying to extract every bit of HP from your combo, 20W50 is the best weight for racing. It is very forgiving, filling voids better than 0W10. Other than high end 500 + miles road race cars, 20W50 keeps all those motors alive in conditions that a drag motor will never see.

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