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Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? #2440090
01/24/18 04:02 PM
01/24/18 04:02 PM
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Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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So I've read various mentions that it is a good idea to put a full-time oiling groove into a small block cam journal. The stock setup allows the oil to only flow through when the oiling hole in the journal is lined up with the oil feed hole in the block/bearing.

For a street motor that will never see more than 6500 RPM, is this something I should consider pursuing?

My own experience tells me that, if anything, the top end never seems to see enough oil on the small block. Therefore by extension, it seems to make sense that full-time oiling to the top end would be a good thing. But could this be a case of "too much of a good thing"?

Also, if this is a recommended change, is a cam journal grind the only way to go about it, or are there cam bearings that are built along the lines of what the mains have? I doubt it since there already seems to be very littl extra room in that bearing for an oil feed passage....

Re: Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? [Re: Diplomat360] #2440098
01/24/18 04:11 PM
01/24/18 04:11 PM
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Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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On my 360 with Crane aluminum rockers, I wanted a bit more valve train oiling, so I grooved the #2 and #4 cam journals. I don't recall the exact groove size/depth, but I haven't had any problems. It may depend on the rocker arms your using? I figured if too much oil was going to the top end, I could just add an oil restriction to the head. I also running a HV oil pump.

Re: Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? [Re: Diplomat360] #2440146
01/24/18 05:44 PM
01/24/18 05:44 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Oval track 318's and 360's, running solid cams and a variety of different rocker arms, 7000-7200rpm lap after lap after lap.
Several track and series championships.

Zero oiling mods.

My own 340 bracket motor, 7500rpm shifts....... No oiling mods.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? [Re: Diplomat360] #2440157
01/24/18 06:01 PM
01/24/18 06:01 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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If everything else is correct you don't need the groove unless you are about ~7500.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? [Re: Diplomat360] #2440179
01/24/18 06:33 PM
01/24/18 06:33 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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If you have a 360 going 7500 plus, you should maybe think about reducing the oil going to the head from those cam bearings instead of increasing it. Or getting the valvetrain oiling off the cam altogether. That's oil the needs to go to crank.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? [Re: CMcAllister] #2440181
01/24/18 06:41 PM
01/24/18 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted By CMcAllister
If you have a 360 going 7500 plus, you should maybe think about reducing the oil going to the head from those cam bearings instead of increasing it. Or getting the valvetrain oiling off the cam altogether. That's oil the needs to go to crank.



Every time I reduced oil to the top it smoked pushrods and galled the shafts.

Also, if you are running roller spring pressure I'd groove the cam.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? [Re: Diplomat360] #2440232
01/24/18 09:16 PM
01/24/18 09:16 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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It did minimally increase wear, but I had it cut back pretty good and had a good steady supply by taking the feed off of the cam bearings. And I used a good synthetic oil. Roller cam, but not real aggressive. Didn't burn anything up. Better than hurting rod bearings.

I would do it again, even on a milder engine. I like being able to control the oil to different areas.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? [Re: Diplomat360] #2440523
01/25/18 01:29 PM
01/25/18 01:29 PM
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Windsor, ON, Canada
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Diplomat360 Offline OP
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Alright, thanks you guys for the feedback.

I have a CompCams hydraulic roller cam that I am going to use in my 408 build. CompCams offers the option to send the cam back and have the oiling groove machined. I am thinking the cost of doing this may not be worth it (shipping alone from Canuck land is probably going to be more than the machining charge...LOL). So is this something that one could do at home given standard DIY type tools? (compressor, die grinder bits, etc, etc???)

Regarding the valvetrain oiling experience. I suppose I am on the "not enough oil" side of the conversation, maybe more from the perspective of idle/low RPM use in particular?

Here is why:

1) initially when I built the 360 motor I used the Comp Cams Magnum SS roller tip rockers, the rocker to valve tip alignment was perfect (meaning just a thin contact strip), however, at some point in time I did notice some blueing of the banana groove rocker arm shafts anyways, never could explain why that happened, although some of the forum feedback did suggest the inherent challenge of running the SS rocker arms, needless to say, these things have been solid, having lasted through all I have put them through

2) most recently when I tried out the 1.6 ratio Crane ductile iron rocker arms I actually managed to chew up the tips of several valves, just a small amount, but holy smokes, it still happened

#2 above had a contributing factor, that being questionable valvetrain geometry, I then modified the rocker arm oiling to help matters, which it did, but the videos I took of the rocker being oiled showed very little splash oiling at idle/off-idle speeds. At higher RPM, yeah, no problem!

Therefore, I am worried about not enough oil at the low RPM, while at the same time wondering if machining the grooves will potentially starve the lower end of oil, precisely as some of you have pointed out.



Re: Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? [Re: Diplomat360] #2440570
01/25/18 03:20 PM
01/25/18 03:20 PM
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Alexandria, LA
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Blucuda413 Offline
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Any machine whop should be able to cut the groves in a few minutes. I had a cam done a few months ago and I swear it took about 15 mins to cut both groves.

Re: Cam journal oiling groove - yey or nay? [Re: Diplomat360] #2440588
01/25/18 03:57 PM
01/25/18 03:57 PM
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Washington
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madscientist Offline
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Yes, any machine shop can machine a simple groove. If they can't...wow.

Second, if you are galling shafts it's a sign of a couple of things. The bushing type rocker requires more oil up there than a needle bearing rocker. I never run needle bearing rockers.

If you don't carry enough volume/pressure at idle it will gall the shafts. If you have enough spring load it will start bluing adjusters.

Low idle speeds and the accompanying low oil flow and pressure will almost always gall the shafts. Make sure you have banana grooves on the shafts. Keep the volume and pressure up over 40 at idle. At that pressure you may only have 10-15 pounds at the rockers since they are last to get oil.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston






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