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#2436745 - 01/18/18 06:54 AM 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
I am looking into upgrading my .92" torsion bars on my 70 Challenger. 340/727,P245-60-15 & P275-60-15 tires, stock front sway bar & 3/4" rear, Viking DA shocks. Rear springs are the #3400043 (6 leafs) on both sides.

This is a street car and I plan on sticking with the 60 series tires which I assume will help absorb some of the stiffness of a larger torsion bar.
I am looking at the FF 1.06" or the 1.12" bars. I do not have any extra stiffening brackets and I don't want to add them unless needed. We have a lot of curves (round-a-bouts) and fairly smooth roads after the pot holes are filled each year up


What do you suggest?

http://www.firmfeel.com/e_body_mopar_torsion_bars.html

Thanks!
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2436802 - 01/18/18 10:04 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
MarkM Offline
Worthy

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 2278
Loc: USA, MI
I have 300# rate springs in the front of my car, so something akin to a 1.14 bar. I ran a 60 series tire upfront for a year with those springs and loved how it handled. Wasn't too harsh at all and really leveled the car out in turns. I wish I could have gone bigger, but FF only offers one style bar for the F/J/M cars. If it were me, keeping the 60 series tires, 1.18 all day.
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'87 Fifth Avenue: 512 low deck roller / 518 / 8.75


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#2437085 - 01/18/18 05:53 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
moparAL Offline
super stock

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 1179
How about Hotchkiss 1.10 torsion bars with some matching adjustable shocks?

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#2437114 - 01/18/18 06:29 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: MarkM]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
Mark,
I never considered any larger than the 1.12" for a street car. But I keep reading more about people running them and liking the ride.
Thanks
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2437153 - 01/18/18 08:01 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: moparAL]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
Al,
I already have DA shocks and I checked the H websight and only found 1.03” for my Challenger.
Thanks

EDIT: just found the 1.1's on Jegs. 👍


Edited by YO7_A66 (01/18/18 08:45 PM)
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2437178 - 01/18/18 08:49 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
After I started this thread, I contacted FF for their suggestion. FF suggested the 1.06" for spirited driving and ride compromise. FF said that the 1.12" are for racing and might be too harsh on a street car.

I am still looking for opinions from those who are driving on 60 series tires.
Thanks everyone!
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2437181 - 01/18/18 08:50 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
moparAL Offline
super stock

Registered: 06/27/03
Posts: 1179
Why Hotchkis hasn't corrected their website misprint, I don't know. Hotchkis #19367 E-body torsion bars are 1.10 diameter. Call them to verify.

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#2437187 - 01/18/18 08:56 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
Jerry Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 6788
Loc: Warren, MI
https://swayaway.com/product-category/torsion-bars/tb-dodge/

you can try these guys too. the website is a little confusing with what they actually have, but give them a call if you want to go bigger and get stiffer torsion bars
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Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts
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#2437205 - 01/18/18 09:17 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: Jerry]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
Jerry,
I have not heard of that company before. They show 1.08" in stock.
Thanks
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2437244 - 01/18/18 10:05 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
I just spent some time searching E body torsion bar sizes on the web. I took a few screen shots of people writing that when running 60 series tires and a SB, and GOOD shocks, that the 1.12"-1.18" bars are still comfortable on the street!! It appears that the 60's absorb some of the road texture.
I also read that the difference between the .9" and the 1.06" bar is not that noticeable.
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2437256 - 01/18/18 10:22 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
RylisPro Offline


Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 2343
Loc: NorCal
I run 1.12's because I have the Hotchkis setup on my car to keep everything balanced and close with their 1.10 torsion bar recommendation. Mopar Mitch swears by 1.24's and I don't doubt him one bit. I thought about 1.24's as well but the 1.12's have performed flawlessly around the Carousel at Sonoma and the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca so no need to change them out, which keep costs down. This is on 315's at the front with no bottoming out or any major issues.

With your 245 fronts you will have understeer, so keep that in mind with your TB choice as it should match the rates for your leafs.
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#2437327 - 01/19/18 02:19 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
crash520 Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 185
Loc: Brisbane Australia
I put Firm Feel 1.06 bars in my Cuda, should have gone bigger, it’s a small block

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#2437344 - 01/19/18 06:01 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: crash520]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
RP: excellent reference! It looks like the 1.12” is on the high end for my setup. Thanks

Crash: is this a 70-74 Cuda? What series tires and shocks? Is this a race or street car?
Thanks
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2437356 - 01/19/18 07:13 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
crash520 Offline
member

Registered: 10/26/13
Posts: 185
Loc: Brisbane Australia
It’s a 73, right now I have 15” rims but I’m going 18’s, prob 45 series, it’s mostly street driven and I have QA1 shocks, I barely noticed any difference in going larger and a lot of guys say the same, go bigger, I also drag race and some circuit track so I’ve had to compromise some

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#2437362 - 01/19/18 07:52 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: RylisPro]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
RPro,
245’s up front & oversteer: Is this due to the 1.12” bars and my existing stock front sway bar?
Thanks
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2437375 - 01/19/18 08:43 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
geo. Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 133
Loc: n.c.
On my '72 Challenger with 1.14 bars and 1-1/8 sway bar, no subframe connectors,the harshness I feel is from the stock rear springs. With 245/60 15 street tires it oversteers a little with the stock E body rear bar.

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#2437399 - 01/19/18 09:31 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: geo.]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
Geo,,
What type of shocks are you running?
Thanks
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2437443 - 01/19/18 10:41 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
geo. Offline
member

Registered: 05/11/15
Posts: 133
Loc: n.c.
Front are some "Herb Adams" labeled gas shocks, not sure who made them.
Rears are Koni single adjustable hydraulic.
The Koni shocks went on back in the late '80s,
The fronts were replaced with the Herb adams, back in the 90s when one of the Konis was damaged after a track accident/brain fade!

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#2437531 - 01/19/18 01:01 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
Mopar Mitch Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/17/10
Posts: 1054
Loc: NW Chicago suburban area
Yo7 -- Your car is similar to mine Get the 1.12 or larger you won't regret it. FF has 1.18 also avlbl (their 1.06 is too weak.. forget about them)... even at 1.12 or 1.18 you'll wonder why not going a bit stiffer. Your big advantage is already having dbl adj shocks.. to fine tune your ride.

For the street (actually... highway) I run 15x8 minilite rims with BFG 255-60 and 275-60 (previously ran fronts 245-60.. but wanted a touch more ground clearance and bump absorption).. having a lowered suspension.. with my 1.24 TBs.... ride is just fine... stiff but not harsh or jaw breaking in any way. Adjustable red Konis.. full stiff front, ~1/2 stiff rear with 225# Flex-a-form mono-fiberglass leafs, 1.25" front sway bar, 1.0" rear sway bar. I also have 16" rims and short profile tires for track events.. street/hwy ok as well.

I've lowered the rear of the car as well, so there isn't as much of rake that introduces understeer with the different size tires...with the 275 rear tires there is only a slight rake, but then I typically have some items for cruising in trunk, etc... leveling off the height.

Hope this info is helpful to you.

PS: FF will make larger TBs upon request, such as 1.24 which is the max diameter to fit through the factory hex opening. The pro-TransAm e-bodies actually ran larger TBs.. around 1.44 diametar using different hex openings... so, the 1.24 TBs which I have (and a few other ppl I know) actually aren't that much stiff as many ppl think.



Edited by Mopar Mitch (01/19/18 01:03 PM)
_________________________
Mopar Mitch "Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers! Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!

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#2437616 - 01/19/18 04:43 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
astjp2 Offline
master

Registered: 01/18/11
Posts: 4174
Loc: Utah and Alaska
Bergman autocraft has some big TB's too, some were on sale not too long ago.
http://bergmanautocraft.com/proddetail.php?prod=5-2401


Edited by astjp2 (01/19/18 04:44 PM)
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1968 Charger
1994 Wrangler
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#2437637 - 01/19/18 05:14 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
TC@HP2 Offline
master

Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 4873
Loc: Pikes Peak Country
Originally Posted By YO7_A66
After I started this thread, I contacted FF for their suggestion. FF suggested the 1.06" for spirited driving and ride compromise. FF said that the 1.12" are for racing and might be too harsh on a street car.


Firm Feel deals with a fairly broad cross section of the hobby and have raced their cars in the past. I would tend to put a pretty large chunk of faith in their recommendation. I know Mitch runs the biggest bar possible and is very happy with it. As racer, his butt dyno may be calibrated slightly different than others on here who I've seen complain that .92 are too harsh. Unfortunately there is no universal measure of harshness of ride for us to compare things. We could maybe uses frequency or cycles, but that will require a bunch of research to find comparable data to dial in what cars feel like mush, feel just right, or are too harsh. That's not easy data to get.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are many competition cars running softer spring rates with higher roll rates. You want just enough spring rate to suspend the front and give reasonable dive resistance, but control transition with a lot of shock control and let the sway bar control the corner loads.

Originally Posted By crash520
It’s a 73, right now I have 15” rims but I’m going 18’s, prob 45 series, it’s mostly street driven and I have QA1 shocks, I barely noticed any difference in going larger and a lot of guys say the same, go bigger, I also drag race and some circuit track so I’ve had to compromise some


In my experience, larger t-bars in bracket racing will not produce optimal e.t.s, but rather will produce more consistent e.t.s.


Originally Posted By YO7_A66
RPro,
245’s up front & oversteer: Is this due to the 1.12” bars and my existing stock front sway bar?
Thanks


Oversteer is too much rear rate, understeer is too much front rate. To balance the above, try a larger front sway bar.

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#2437853 - 01/20/18 07:18 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: TC@HP2]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
Thank you Mitch and HP2! It looks like I need to let this info soak in before I make my choice.
I appreciate all of the replies👍👍. It helps to see what others have already tried.
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2438903 - 01/22/18 07:46 AM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
BigBlockMopar Offline
master

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 3400
Loc: The Netherlands
Don't forget Sway-a-way which also has a nice selection of bars for most Mopar-platforms.
Better prices as well;
https://swayaway.com/product/mopar-b-torsion-bar-set/
_________________________
BigBlockMopar.com


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#2439259 - 01/22/18 08:29 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: BigBlockMopar]
YO7_A66 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5191
Loc: Indiana
The Swayaway sight shows 1.08" bars up

Thanks

EDIT: The Bergmans and the Swayaways look very similar. I wonder if they are the same manufacturer.


Edited by YO7_A66 (01/22/18 08:32 PM)
_________________________
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (SL.P. 226/238@.050,270/288 dur,.538"/.528" w/Yella Terra 1.65 rockers, 9.7:1, 63cc Sidewinders (Bowl Ported),RPM intake, QF SS-750 Annular DP, MSD Street Fire Ign., & TTI's. 727/Dynamic 9.5" 3800, TF-2, & 3:91's

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#2439340 - 01/22/18 10:44 PM Re: 1.06" or 1.12" FF Torsion Bars, Street [Re: YO7_A66]
RylisPro Offline


Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 2343
Loc: NorCal
I would have no issue getting a 1.14" bar or even a thicker TB from Sway-away, as long as they make quality parts. My 1.12" TB's will bounce up and down when you rock the front end of my car. Every other performance car at every track I run at would never do that due to their modern suspension and extremely high coil spring rates.
_________________________

/Drive
Instagram: @rylispro
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www.rylispro.com
925-214-9192
Tremec T56 Magnums & Quick Time bells
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