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Milling cylinder heads?? #243568
03/04/09 11:34 PM 03/04/09 11:34 PM
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I have a set of 516's that appear to be stock surface. How much would I need to mill to get 70-72 cc's?

Its going on a 383 with pistons in the hole of .095.

Wanting 9:1 or so.

Thanks
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243569
03/05/09 01:08 AM 03/05/09 01:08 AM
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.030" should do it. Don't forget the intake side...
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243570
03/05/09 01:52 AM 03/05/09 01:52 AM
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plug it all into here http://kb-silvolite.com/calc.php? so you'll know what you really have for CR.

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Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: RapidRobert] #243571
03/05/09 01:04 PM 03/05/09 01:04 PM
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Have the shop cc a couple chambers and then tell you waht you need. They are always larger than the factory specs.

Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: moper] #243572
03/05/09 01:14 PM 03/05/09 01:14 PM
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Quote:

Have the shop cc a couple chambers and then tell you what you need. They are always larger than the factory specs.



you can't just ASSUME they are a certain cc
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: JohnRR] #243573
03/07/09 05:11 PM 03/07/09 05:11 PM
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Yes, measure first, but I bet they are stock around 84cc. You'll cut about 60 off to get to 73 cc, my WAG.
Remember to cut the intake port side of the head too.
R.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: dogdays] #243574
03/07/09 06:45 PM 03/07/09 06:45 PM
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Just a rough measure and they were 75cc. I thought all of them were under 80 from the start?
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243575
03/07/09 06:49 PM 03/07/09 06:49 PM
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Quote:

Just a rough measure and they were 75cc. I thought all of them were under 80 from the start?



they must have been cut before ? how thick is the boss where the outer rom of headbolts are under the exh ? something better than a rough measure , don't use a tape measure

Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: JohnRR] #243576
03/07/09 08:41 PM 03/07/09 08:41 PM
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I cc'd them a while ago, this time with a plexiglass plate and a syringe from the local animal supply. I get right at 78-80. The thickness is 1.000-1.010 (digital calipers).

My A12 906's are right at .995 thick. Kind of in the same situation on my A12 heads. I want to get them down to around 80cc. They have been cut already, but with my .030 stock pistons, its around 8.9:1.

There are no mopar specific machine shops locally and I can't exactly afford Modern Cylinder head right now.

The 516's were a pretty good deal to use on my 383. the are already ported and polished with oversized valves and good springs/retainers.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243577
03/07/09 09:12 PM 03/07/09 09:12 PM
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if your already at 8.9:1, just run em. You will see no difference in 8.9:1 HP versus 9:1 HP
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: Baxter61] #243578
03/07/09 09:27 PM 03/07/09 09:27 PM
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You would think with those closed chambers you could go higher on the compression. (Depending on cam.)

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Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #243579
03/07/09 10:08 PM 03/07/09 10:08 PM
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I shoudn't have mentioned the A12 906's. Thats a different subject.

I have a rebuilt shortblock 383 HP that I got in trade several years ago and am now finishing putting it back together. I turns out that the guy I got it from had low compression forged pistons installed and it comes out to about 7.8:1 with 906/346 (85-88) heads.

Since we are in a thrifty economy, I'm going to not restore my Bee and just put it together on the cheap. So I ran across a set of 516's and since I'm going to have them checked out, lapped, and milled, I figured I'd try and get the CR more in the 9:1 range. This is going to be a pretty low buck assembly.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243580
03/08/09 02:10 AM 03/08/09 02:10 AM
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Quote:

I cc'd them a while ago, this time with a plexiglass plate and a syringe from the local animal supply. I get right at 78-80. The thickness is 1.000-1.010 (digital calipers).





You are still seeing a .010 difference , that 10 thou , thats alot with a digital caliper , but the heads haven't been planed , if much at all .
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: JohnRR] #243581
03/08/09 08:22 AM 03/08/09 08:22 AM
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factory miling marks on th head deck are straight wheras machine shop ones leave circular marks. this may help you determine if it is original/unmilled

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Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: RapidRobert] #243582
03/08/09 09:45 AM 03/08/09 09:45 AM
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Someones used a scotchbrite on the gasket surfaces with a air tool or something. Makes it hard to tell.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: RapidRobert] #243583
03/08/09 09:50 AM 03/08/09 09:50 AM
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Quote:

factory miling marks on th head deck are straight wheras machine shop ones leave circular marks.


Not nessessarly so. Depends on the machine shop.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243584
03/08/09 10:11 AM 03/08/09 10:11 AM
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Quote:

Someones used a scotchbrite on the gasket surfaces with a air tool or something. Makes it hard to tell.



Those things can screw up the flatness of the surface real easy , the heads should be at a minimum SKIMMED to true the surface .
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: JohnRR] #243585
03/08/09 10:55 AM 03/08/09 10:55 AM
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I'm thinking of having about .030 taken off. I have an old DP4B that I can have milled also.

Heres a question: How does it affect the valley pan gasket when taking that much material off?
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243586
03/08/09 11:46 AM 03/08/09 11:46 AM
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Quote:


Heres a question: How does it affect the valley pan gasket when taking that much material off?




With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243587
03/08/09 11:53 AM 03/08/09 11:53 AM
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mill the intake side of the head not the intake. then you dont have an intake that only works on one set of heads or vice versa. mill .0062 to reduce the chamber by one cc (on 915 and 516). and .0063 to the intake for every .010 you mill from the head. so .030 off the heads would get you about 5cc and require a .0189 intake cut. just dropped my 452's of yesterday to have them done.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: psycho_440] #243588
03/08/09 11:55 AM 03/08/09 11:55 AM
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i had a set of 452's milled i think .080 a few years ago and had the intake side milled...everything fit just fine.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: psycho_440] #243589
03/08/09 12:23 PM 03/08/09 12:23 PM
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Psycho,

What pary of MO are you from? Im in KC. Is there a shop you recommend?
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243590
03/08/09 12:57 PM 03/08/09 12:57 PM
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i live just about 2 hrs NE of you. in chillicothe right off of hwy 36. i took my heads to cameron engines in cameron, i have to give him the numbers but he's the closest shop i found that will do it. i think he charged $100 for the last set. pretty good ol' boy. K and M in kc is supposed to be a good shop. also yancys and maybe mann speed??
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: psycho_440] #243591
03/08/09 01:01 PM 03/08/09 01:01 PM
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I'm familiar with K&M and Mann. Have used neither as I've never had much work done before. Never heard of Yancy.

I've heard different stories on different ones. You know how it is, you only hear the bad.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: psycho_440] #243592
03/08/09 01:12 PM 03/08/09 01:12 PM
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Quote:

mill the intake side of the head not the intake. then you dont have an intake that only works on one set of heads or vice versa.



thats nice and works for light milling jobs, but I think there is not enough material on intake side of heads when we talk about a heavy mill job( 050 or so ), will get weak side walls on heads, don't you think ?

With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243593
03/08/09 01:22 PM 03/08/09 01:22 PM
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To get to the 70-72 cc's that I want, I'd have to take off about .060 on the chamber side and about .030 on the intake side. What will happen is the rough cast surface will be machined off on the intake side. I don't know how much material is on there, but .030 is alot to take off and will take some out the valve cover gasket surface on the intake side I think.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243594
03/08/09 01:32 PM 03/08/09 01:32 PM
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all that i can tell you is i have gone .080 before with the intake side also corrected and had no problem. really even .030 is very small amount of material removed.just kinda "flattened out the raiesed spots on the intake side of the ones i had done .080...you know how its kinda raised where the gasket sits.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: cdp] #243595
03/08/09 01:50 PM 03/08/09 01:50 PM
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Quote:

I'm familiar with K&M and Mann. Have used neither as I've never had much work done before. Never heard of Yancy.

I've heard different stories on different ones. You know how it is, you only hear the bad.

only motors i know of built at k&m were 800-1000 hp chevys. the local car quest machine shop does all my standard procedure stuff, and hughes has done all my head work cam etc. local place says they cant mill the intake side of the head (or the intake for that matter). and any of the local "performance shops" dont seem to want to mess with just a head mill on some dang dodge motor. so i take my stuff to cameron. kinda nervouse bout taking my $1200 heads to anybody but hughes but it would have taken prob $200 just to ship them there and back. cameron has always done me good. he even miled a smallblock intake for me years ago.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: psycho_440] #243596
03/08/09 01:51 PM 03/08/09 01:51 PM
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I don't think it will "weaken" the head any. And .030 is relatively small I think. When I talk to the machine shop, i'll find out. I'd prefer not to cut the intake.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: psycho_440] #243597
03/08/09 01:56 PM 03/08/09 01:56 PM
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ok here is some confusing info ( I think, unles I'm reading wrong )

I have in my archives that for every 0.010 of head need to mill 0.0123 of intake side... actually could it be done on intake or intake side of head, thats on each one, but still wondering if there is enough material to make a heavy mill down job on intake side of the head without get weak ( maybe it could be shared between head and intake )


that would mean for 0.060 mill down head surface will need 0.0738 on intake side... 0.030 would it be 0.0369 on intake side


but here has been told:

Quote:

and .0063 to the intake for every .010 you mill from the head. so .030 off the heads would get you about 5cc and require a .0189 intake cut







Then ARE WE ALL AGREE about needs to mill 0.0062 for each CC ?

ALSO confirming conversion info... one milimeter would it be about 0.052 ? or less ?

5078684-Head.jpg (46 downloads)
Last edited by NachoRT74; 03/08/09 02:10 PM.
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Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243598
03/08/09 02:09 PM 03/08/09 02:09 PM
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yes my big mopar book says to mil .0123 on the intake for every .010 but... a friend of mine used those mopar performance figures on a small block and we had to stack intake gaskets for the intake to fit...it wasnt even close. the specs i gave are from hughes engines and have worked perfect for me in the past. so i dunno??? .0123 seems alot if you are only milling .010 on the head.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: psycho_440] #243599
03/08/09 02:11 PM 03/08/09 02:11 PM
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well those numbers are stated on the archive to B and RB blocks. not SB, so that it could be the reason

With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243600
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Quote:




Then ARE WE ALL AGREE about needs to mill 0.0062 for each CC ?

ALSO confirming conversion info... one milimeter would it be about 0.052 ? or less ?



quoting myself...

somebody told me the conversion for 1 mm was 0.052, and I got on my calculator IT IS REALLY 0.03937... what a difference!!!

that would mean for around one milimeter milling job I would get around 6.5 cc less

With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243601
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Quote:

well those numbers are stated on the archive to B and RB blocks. not SB, so that it could be the reason

nah...we used the small block specs... trying to find them...cant find them in my mopar book right now. hughes says the same for small block (.0063 for every .010) his machine shop also might have donked them up????
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243602
03/08/09 02:34 PM 03/08/09 02:34 PM
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Quote:



Then ARE WE ALL AGREE about needs to mill 0.0062 for each CC ?




quoting myself again... I had doubts about this info. I made these same questions long time ago at DC.com board and got this answer:

With the open chamber heads on big block mopars you figure you need to mill about .004" per cc and since you need to reduce it by 12 cc's your looking at about .048" to mill off of the heads and around .060 off of the intake side of the heads, also pay close attention to your pushrod length and lifter preload especially if you don't have an adjustable valvetrain.

so... .0062 or .0040 for each CC ?

WHY I'm constantly asking ? because I don't have funds to mill down again if I get short, or make another head job If I pass the wished numbers!!! so I need to make the job JUST ONCE AND GET IT RIGHT!!!!

With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243603
03/08/09 02:38 PM 03/08/09 02:38 PM
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What head are you milling? Open Chamber vs Closed Chamber makes a difference...

http://www.mopar1.us/mill.html
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #243604
03/08/09 02:44 PM 03/08/09 02:44 PM
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I have 452s to make the job.

BTW sorry the highjack cdp, but maybe my questions it could be very usefull on this thread

GREAT LINK!!!!...

BTW, I think we all were talking about open heads ( however, 452s are on 90 CC numbers, mine got 92 CC, LOT MORE than the link states, but I think works the same on reducing CC job, since we talk on these about a cilindrical geometry on open heads not the wedged chamber area. )

Last edited by NachoRT74; 03/08/09 02:50 PM.
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Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243605
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no problem. You have valid questions. I have a set of 906's and was curious to how much was needed just to get 1cc. I need to get them down some too.

Thanks to everyone here, I think I got my answers to some degree.

I've heard that some info in the BB MP Book is not correcet. The milling could be one of those things. I have the book too.

The heads I have are 516's (closed chamber), so it will take more to gain 1cc as compared to an open head.

So the .0062 would be for closed, and .004 for open?

Last edited by cdp; 03/08/09 02:56 PM.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243606
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well i am thouroghly confused now. i will go with the hughes engines numbers...they worked for my in the past. plus you could have use the lesser of the two figures and if it was wrong you could have more milled. hard to weld those shavings back on

Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: psycho_440] #243607
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I still haven't done anything yet in all this 6 months since I got all the parts to my performance upgrade ( I have been some lazy to began the porting job LOL ), but I also wanted to be sure about the numbers needed.

Quote:

plus you could have use the lesser of the two figures and if it was wrong you could have more milled.



yes definitelly you are right, but as stated I don't want to make the job twice ( funds reasons mainly )

Last edited by NachoRT74; 03/08/09 03:43 PM.
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Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243608
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Pretty understandable really, I prefer to check my facts twice rather than get it wrong too. And if I get it wrong replacement heads are probably alot easier to find in California then Venezuela..
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: psycho_440] #243609
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I think for smallblocks it is something like 0.95 mil for every mil taken off the deck surface. The 1.23 from the Mopar guide is right for bigblocks.

R.
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #243610
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Quote:

Pretty understandable really, I prefer to check my facts twice rather than get it wrong too. And if I get it wrong replacement heads are probably alot easier to find in California then Venezuela..



yes, but also beside what is on my car actually I have 4 used 452 heads more, I know where to find locally 2 NOS 452 heads and could get some more heads around ( 346 ) so REALLY REALLY is mostly to save machine job expenses

With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243611
03/08/09 05:22 PM 03/08/09 05:22 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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My MP eng bok states for each .010" from the head(deck) .0095 needs to come off the intake side and .0048" off of the deck loses 1cc(340-360) and .0053" off of the deck loses 1cc(273-318).

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: NachoRT74] #243612
03/08/09 06:45 PM 03/08/09 06:45 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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JohnRR  Offline
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Quote:

Quote:


Heres a question: How does it affect the valley pan gasket when taking that much material off?







if you cut alot off the heads and or the deck the valley end rails need to be cut after a certian point as the valley gasket won't fit well without :hammering .

I have a block that was decked .018 , the heads have about .050 cut off , I had to cut close to .080 off the valley rails to get the gasket to fit the way I wanted to . I think the number off the rail is the same as what you take off the intake side of the head , .0123
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: RapidRobert] #243613
03/08/09 06:46 PM 03/08/09 06:46 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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JohnRR  Offline
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Quote:

My MP eng bok states for each .010" from the head(deck) .0095 needs to come off the intake side and .0048" off of the deck loses 1cc(340-360) and .0053" off of the deck loses 1cc(273-318).



Smallblock is DIFFERENT than big block
Re: Milling cylinder heads?? [Re: JohnRR] #243614
03/08/09 07:24 PM 03/08/09 07:24 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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RapidRobert  Offline
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Quote:

Smallblock is DIFFERENT than big block

yes they are

live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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