Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2413318
12/04/17 11:30 PM
12/04/17 11:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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It’s a 451 and am running a Holley 950 on it. I’ve tried a number of things but am having trouble with it back firing through the carb when I mash the throttle. This carb ran great on a buddies BBC with similiar cubes and a big solid cam. I'm assuming nothing was changed on the carb from him to you. at what RPM are you mashing it? vacuum leak? at the offending RPM is the carb being delivered enough fuel? A locked dist means no vac adv so no potential rotor phasing issue (near zero vac so a can loses its timing/rotor phasing shifts back CW). can you run it up to the offending RPM in your driveway & mash it & check the squirt? (fuel delivery needs would be less than a driveing mashing but it'd be a start). Keep us posted.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2413464
12/05/17 06:51 AM
12/05/17 06:51 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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For starters, make sure the secondary squirter is not plugged but those need help regardless......... [quote=Thumperdart] Squirters are not clogged. I have gone from a 31 to a 37 and checked to make sure everything was clean.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Dragula]
#2413465
12/05/17 06:53 AM
12/05/17 06:53 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Benforsp
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ITS LEAN...under load.
I like #45 squirters in everything! It has 31’s up front and 37’s in the back so you think 45’s in front and back?
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: BradH]
#2413538
12/05/17 01:08 PM
12/05/17 01:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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What model # "950"?
What's the COMPLETE carb tune?
CR?
Cam specs?
Gear, tire, stall speed?
Launch RPM? It's a 0-82951. The engine has 440-1 heads, CR is 11.0 to 1. Pump Gas. Mostly a street car, 4.56 gear, 275/60/15 MT tires, 3800 stall. I haven't really driven the car much. I am just trying to get the carb to respond right then I can fine tune it, but I feel like I am too far off.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2413563
12/05/17 02:05 PM
12/05/17 02:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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What model # "950"?
What's the COMPLETE carb tune?
CR?
Cam specs?
Gear, tire, stall speed?
Launch RPM? It's a 0-82951. The engine has 440-1 heads, CR is 11.0 to 1. Pump Gas. Mostly a street car, 4.56 gear, 275/60/15 MT tires, 3800 stall. I haven't really driven the car much. I am just trying to get the carb to respond right then I can fine tune it, but I feel like I am too far off. I did one for a BB Chevy and does not have these issues so call me and I will shoot you the tune and compare to yours if u'd like.......
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2413746
12/05/17 07:15 PM
12/05/17 07:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
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You still haven't given any details of the cam or the carb's current tune. That doesn't make it any easier to try and help.
The 0-82951 is the "Street HP", right? Check the actual venturi diameter and see if it's 1.38" or 1.56" I've seen conflicting specs, depending upon when the carb was made I guess. The tune would likely vary quite a bit depending upon which size it is.
I have no first-hand experience w/ the "Street HP" stuff. I'd hope that they're "flexible" enough to be tuned to work w/ your combination.
Last edited by BradH; 12/05/17 07:21 PM.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: BradH]
#2413852
12/05/17 09:59 PM
12/05/17 09:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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You still haven't given any details of the cam or the carb's current tune. That doesn't make it any easier to try and help.
The 0-82951 is the "Street HP", right? Check the actual venturi diameter and see if it's 1.38" or 1.56" I've seen conflicting specs, depending upon when the carb was made I guess. The tune would likely vary quite a bit depending upon which size it is.
I have no first-hand experience w/ the "Street HP" stuff. I'd hope that they're "flexible" enough to be tuned to work w/ your combination. Hey BradH, This is from the Holley site. It should be all the same with the exception of the larger rear squirter, accelerator pump change and 2.5 PV's. I'm not with the car at this moment to know any of the air bleed sizes. What other information is needed? Barrels 4 Booster Down Leg Brand Holley CFM 950 Choke None Emission Code 3 Finish Shiny Fuel Gasoline Fuel Inlet Dual Material Zinc Model 4150 Primary Main Jet 84 Primary Power Valve 6.5 Primary Pump Nozzle Size 31 Product Type Carburetor Secondaries Mechanical Secondary Main Jet 84 Secondary Pump Nozzle Size 31 Supercharged Application No Throttle Bore 1.750 inch Venturii Size 1.563 inch Part Number 0-82951
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: BradH]
#2413860
12/05/17 10:07 PM
12/05/17 10:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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You still haven't given any details of the cam or the carb's current tune. That doesn't make it any easier to try and help.
The 0-82951 is the "Street HP", right? Check the actual venturi diameter and see if it's 1.38" or 1.56" I've seen conflicting specs, depending upon when the carb was made I guess. The tune would likely vary quite a bit depending upon which size it is.
I have no first-hand experience w/ the "Street HP" stuff. I'd hope that they're "flexible" enough to be tuned to work w/ your combination. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=739&sb=1Installed straight up with 1.6 ratio rockers to bring the lift up. Cam Detail....
Last edited by Benforsp; 12/05/17 10:09 PM.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2414161
12/06/17 01:28 PM
12/06/17 01:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
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Hmmm... -> 440-ish cubes with "big" heads that work better on 500+" -> moderate CR -> 260+ at .050" street roller -> limited stall speed -> street-tuned(?) carb w/ 1.56 venturi & downleg boosters ... Starting to look to me like a mismatch of parts, of which the carb is likely one of the "What's wrong with this picture?" items, along w/ the converter being too tight. The carb may be workable, but I'll take a s.w.a.g. that the way it's set up right now is... uh... "wrong". FWIW, the backfire upon WOT acceleration (IIRC what you posted originally correctly) would point me to verifying fuel bowl levels are high enough & accelerator pump passages & pumps are clear and working properly, and then making sure none of the air bleeds are plugged up (dirt or whatever). My (which are usually only worth about $.0125) is to tear it down completely and get (buy/borrower) the proper tools to measure all the circuits & orifices so that you KNOW what the current tune is. Post 'em, and get some feedback on what makes sense to change from there. This is still a pretty basic carb... it can't be THAT effed up.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: BradH]
#2414189
12/06/17 02:08 PM
12/06/17 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I agree w/Brad.......miss matched parts and not "ideal" however, I've modded a few of those w/excellent results and one friend picked up 500 rpm's and mph in a v-drive boat and the rest complain of traction issues........ If you're handy w/drillin n tapping I will help ya out for a cold beer............
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: BradH]
#2414200
12/06/17 02:35 PM
12/06/17 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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Hmmm... -> 440-ish cubes with "big" heads that work better on 500+" -> moderate CR -> 260+ at .050" street roller -> limited stall speed -> street-tuned(?) carb w/ 1.56 venturi & downleg boosters ... Starting to look to me like a mismatch of parts, of which the carb is likely one of the "What's wrong with this picture?" items, along w/ the converter being too tight. The carb may be workable, but I'll take a s.w.a.g. that the way it's set up right now is... uh... "wrong". FWIW, the backfire upon WOT acceleration (IIRC what you posted originally correctly) would point me to verifying fuel bowl levels are high enough & accelerator pump passages & pumps are clear and working properly, and then making sure none of the air bleeds are plugged up (dirt or whatever). My (which are usually only worth about $.0125) is to tear it down completely and get (buy/borrower) the proper tools to measure all the circuits & orifices so that you KNOW what the current tune is. Post 'em, and get some feedback on what makes sense to change from there. This is still a pretty basic carb... it can't be THAT effed up. I had the carb apart and physically went through everything. I did not go to the extent of measuring all of the orifices though...I've never actually done carbs to that point.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2414858
12/07/17 07:17 PM
12/07/17 07:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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You have to to in order to have a base tune and to know what needs to be changed to bring it around to your cars needs...........no other way........ Thumper, What all is involved in this and what specialty tools are needed?
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2414883
12/07/17 08:04 PM
12/07/17 08:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Thumperdart
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We need to talk, too much to type..........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2414948
12/07/17 10:16 PM
12/07/17 10:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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-> 440-ish cubes with "big" heads that work better on 500+" -> moderate CR -> 260+ at .050" street roller -> limited stall speed -> street-tuned(?) carb w/ 1.56 venturi & downleg boosters
Those are my thoughts as well. 1.56 venturi downleg carbs can be a real challenge to "tune the bog out of". IMO, I think a main body swap to something with a smaller venturi would ultimately yield better results(I'd probably use a 1.400 x 1.750)....... But if I were trying to work around that combo, I would expect to have to run fairly large squirters, and probably a 50cc pump/cam on the secondary side, and I would absolutely ditch the 2.5 pv. You want to get a head start on the main circuit enrichment when going to wot...... It would get a 6.5 if I were messing with it. There is a lot of plenum and runner volume in that combo, and not a lot of cubes generating signal.......... It's going to need a lot of help(pump shot) to give the motor something to work with until the main circuit is activated. Not what you asked, but there is some performance left on the table with that cam, in that combo.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: BradH]
#2414966
12/07/17 10:52 PM
12/07/17 10:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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We need to talk, too much to type.......... with one finger You know me too well...............lol
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2415165
12/08/17 12:19 PM
12/08/17 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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-> 440-ish cubes with "big" heads that work better on 500+" -> moderate CR -> 260+ at .050" street roller -> limited stall speed -> street-tuned(?) carb w/ 1.56 venturi & downleg boosters
Those are my thoughts as well. 1.56 venturi downleg carbs can be a real challenge to "tune the bog out of". IMO, I think a main body swap to something with a smaller venturi would ultimately yield better results(I'd probably use a 1.400 x 1.750)....... But if I were trying to work around that combo, I would expect to have to run fairly large squirters, and probably a 50cc pump/cam on the secondary side, and I would absolutely ditch the 2.5 pv. You want to get a head start on the main circuit enrichment when going to wot...... It would get a 6.5 if I were messing with it. There is a lot of plenum and runner volume in that combo, and not a lot of cubes generating signal.......... It's going to need a lot of help(pump shot) to give the motor something to work with until the main circuit is activated. Not what you asked, but there is some performance left on the table with that cam, in that combo. Fast, The carb had 6.5's in it and I can put them back in no sweat. I knew the cam was pretty big but had talked to some folks and they suggested it would be suitable, but I would consider other options, what might you advise?
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Dadodgekid]
#2415169
12/08/17 12:24 PM
12/08/17 12:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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whats the fuel pressure set to... Kid, The fuel pressure is 6.5-7 PSI. I run an electric pump with a return style fuel system with -8 lines.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2415212
12/08/17 01:48 PM
12/08/17 01:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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fast68plymouth
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It would require a conversation before I would recommend any other cam, but I think getting rid of some seat timing would be a step in the right direction.
You said "pv's"....... If you're still running one in the secondary side, remove it and replace with a plug....... And jet up accordingly(around 8 sizes).
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2415239
12/08/17 02:30 PM
12/08/17 02:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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whats the fuel pressure set to... Kid, The fuel pressure is 6.5-7 PSI. I run an electric pump with a return style fuel system with -8 lines. Still waiting for a call...........lower the pressure to 5.5 max IF you run .120 needle n seats which you should.......
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2415277
12/08/17 03:53 PM
12/08/17 03:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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You still haven't given any details of the cam or the carb's current tune. That doesn't make it any easier to try and help.
The 0-82951 is the "Street HP", right? Check the actual venturi diameter and see if it's 1.38" or 1.56" I've seen conflicting specs, depending upon when the carb was made I guess. The tune would likely vary quite a bit depending upon which size it is.
I have no first-hand experience w/ the "Street HP" stuff. I'd hope that they're "flexible" enough to be tuned to work w/ your combination. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=739&sb=1Installed straight up with 1.6 ratio rockers to bring the lift up. Cam Detail.... Did you degree the cam or did you install it with the dots "straight up" ? If not degreed you should do that now I would advance it so the intake lobes are from 107 to 105 max lift after top dead center I've ran a very similar cam (260@.050 int., 266@.050 ex. ground on a 108 LC installed two degrees advanced on the intake lobes)) Comp solid roller with 1.6 ratio rockers, no bog even with a six pack set up after I had to sort it out. I had another bracket motor with a Holley 80496 950 HP on a TM7 intake with ported 906 heads and a bigger Crane solid roller and it never bogged ever, that cam was advanced 4 degrees
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 12/08/17 03:54 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2415298
12/08/17 04:46 PM
12/08/17 04:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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You still haven't given any details of the cam or the carb's current tune. That doesn't make it any easier to try and help.
The 0-82951 is the "Street HP", right? Check the actual venturi diameter and see if it's 1.38" or 1.56" I've seen conflicting specs, depending upon when the carb was made I guess. The tune would likely vary quite a bit depending upon which size it is.
I have no first-hand experience w/ the "Street HP" stuff. I'd hope that they're "flexible" enough to be tuned to work w/ your combination. http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=739&sb=1Installed straight up with 1.6 ratio rockers to bring the lift up. Cam Detail.... Did you degree the cam or did you install it with the dots "straight up" ? If not degreed you should do that now I would advance it so the intake lobes are from 107 to 105 max lift after top dead center I've ran a very similar cam (260@.050 int., 266@.050 ex. ground on a 108 LC installed two degrees advanced on the intake lobes)) Comp solid roller with 1.6 ratio rockers, no bog even with a six pack set up after I had to sort it out. I had another bracket motor with a Holley 80496 950 HP on a TM7 intake with ported 906 heads and a bigger Crane solid roller and it never bogged ever, that cam was advanced 4 degrees Cab, I had thought about installing it advanced and regret not doing so at this point. The cam was degreed.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2415303
12/08/17 04:54 PM
12/08/17 04:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610 long time lurker, short time p...
PorkyPig
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You have to to in order to have a base tune and to know what needs to be changed to bring it around to your cars needs...........no other way........ Thumper, What all is involved in this and what specialty tools are needed? How much carb tuning experience do you really have? It sounds like you may be in over your head.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2415304
12/08/17 04:57 PM
12/08/17 04:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 153 Bradenton, FL
Benforsp
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whats the fuel pressure set to... Kid, The fuel pressure is 6.5-7 PSI. I run an electric pump with a return style fuel system with -8 lines. Still waiting for a call...........lower the pressure to 5.5 max IF you run .120 needle n seats which you should....... I tried! No Answer.
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Re: Another Carb question...
[Re: Benforsp]
#2415327
12/08/17 05:47 PM
12/08/17 05:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,492 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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I had thought about installing it advanced and regret not doing so at this point. The cam was degreed. If the cam was installed as per the cam card in the link you posted, then it's installed 4deg advanced. The advance is ground into the cam. Advancing it "more" isn't going to cure your problem.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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