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#2393978 - 10/27/17 07:07 PM Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P]
Mike P Offline
pro stock

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 1339
Loc: AZ
I’ve got the clutch straightened out. Turns out that all that was required was adding a bolt on extension to the clutch fork. It was pretty simple to built but took just a bit of time working on a creeper to figure out what I needed to make.


57 ext by M Patterson, on Flickr



Changing to an automatic is not completely off the table depending on what I end up doing for power steering , but I figure I've probably bought my leg a few more years with the 4 speed. if I decide to keep it.


I mentioned in the original post that I put the 57 together so I could drive it to Tulsa when the unearthed the 57 Belvedere in 2007.


Now that I’m working on the 57 again I’ve gone back and revisited some web sites I was on when I built the car. I came across some information on the Belvederes’ current status.

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/06/28...eum/?refer=news

The car looks a lot better than it did when it came out of the hole, but like the article indicates all the metal is thin and pin holed (“It’s basically like papier mâché,”).

The museum where it’s to be located is only a couple of hour drive from where my High School reunion will be so if it’s still there I’ll probably take a drive and go see it.
_________________________
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Tri Power, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)

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#2398329 - 11/04/17 08:58 AM Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P]
Mike P Offline
pro stock

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 1339
Loc: AZ
Once I got the 57 drivable back in 06 the drivers’ side rear spring started to sag a bit. I took the easy/quick way out at the time and threw a set of air shocks on the back. I finally got tired of adding air to them every 3 days so figured I go ahead and fix it right.

My experience with re-ached springs is that they tend to be over arched and when they are first put on the car sits like a stink bug and it take up to a couple years for the rear to settle to the final ride height. The only new off the shelf springs that will bolt on to the 57 are Mopar Performance C body super stock springs and those are a bit on the stiff side for my taste (I used them on the 57 Dodge I built several years ago).

That pretty much left adding some leafs to the spring packs. I had a spring pack out in the shed that has the right width leafs so I ended up adding 2 to the drivers’ side and one to the passengers’ side. That and a new pair of shocks and one more thing is checked off the list.

57 brakes by M Patterson, on Flickr


I also started collecting the bits and pieces for the dual quads. I picked up an original 57 dual quad manifold form a friend of mine who has decided to go with an aluminum intake for his Hemi. I set a pair of parts carbs on to check the height of the spacers I want to run under them (these carbs have too many internal issues to make them viable as builders). I’ll be running spacers for 2 reasons; insulating the carbs from the intake to help prevent heat soak on hot days , getting the air cleaner up into the scoop area……even with 1 ½” of spacers the air cleaner is still sits lower than the tri-power.

354 DQ by M Patterson, on Flickr

I like the big oval air cleaner on this car, but when I built it the only thing I could find were the chrome steel ones. To me the chrome steel never looked quite right with the aluminum valve covers. I picked up an aluminum air cleaner assembly which was black powder coated. I got the powder coating stripped (acetone and steel wool). Right now I’m debating whether to polish the lid out or send it and the valve covers out to be powder coated. I’m kind of leaning towards the powder coating. The “near chrome” powder coating does not look anything like chrome but does look like polished aluminum and it doesn’t oxidize like polished aluminum does. It’s also a lot easier than polishing the lid and those big valve covers …..but like I said, I’m still deciding.
_________________________
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Tri Power, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)

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#2398435 - 11/04/17 03:00 PM Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: DaytonaTurbo]
Supercuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 12570
Loc: West Texas
Originally Posted By DaytonaTurbo
Beautiful car! Only thing I might change is to go with a hydraulic clutch to really cut down on pedal effort.

Originally Posted By Supercuda
Cavalier center pivot R&P. Fab cross member to bolt it to the original idler arm bracket and steer box mount. Already paper engineered this for install into my Cuda, once I finish getting the shop built.


What's your plan to account for turning radius loss? Are you making longer steering arms?


Longer? No that would worsen the issue.

Shorter, yes.

Depending on the applications you can sometimes find a different model arm that will bolt on and work.
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#2398736 - 11/05/17 08:36 AM Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P]
Mike P Offline
pro stock

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 1339
Loc: AZ
I took a look at the Cavalier center pivot R&P. At a glance for this car it’s probably more unfeasible than trying to rig a convention rack under the car. Besides the rack hanging down way to low, the added room required for rack movement and the angle the tie rods would end up requiring a complete redesign of the front crossmember and oil pan. By the time that’s finished you’re almost looking at a front frame clip again.

I found a build thread on another Hemi Plaza last week (neat project). He started with a 6 Cyl car like mine and changed out the 6 Cyl Frame mounts to original V8 Frame mounts like I did. He ended up with room for a factory PS unit……..on closer inspection of his pictures, it turns out he had shifted his engine over a couple of inches. That boats already sailed on mine ( and I won’t put factory PS on mine anyway).

Like I said I think I can fit a 800 series Saginaw box in but I’m continuing to look at options. I talked to a friend of mine yesterday and he has a core 605 Saginaw box I can borrow for a while. It’s a bit smaller and may be easier to mount than the 800s and universal Pitman arms are available for them so I’m going take a closer look at that.

This week is going to be pretty much eaten up with getting a load of stuff ready to take up to a swap meet in Tucson so it will probably be a bit before I get back on the steering.
_________________________
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Tri Power, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)

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#2398870 - 11/05/17 12:09 PM Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P]
RUNCHARGER Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 15263
Loc: Chilliwack B.C. Canada
You're making good progress.
_________________________
Sheldon

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#2403883 - 11/15/17 07:16 AM Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P]
Mike P Offline
pro stock

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 1339
Loc: AZ
I started looking for AFBs to use for the dual quads a couple of weeks ago. Personally I usually like to find a pair of used carbs that are matched and build them myself. I usually have at least some AFBs sitting on the shelf but over the last few years a lot have been used or sold so I didn’t have anything suitable on hand. The local wrecking yards were picked over years ago so I went on E Bay and Craigs List to see what was out there. It’s been a few years since I've bought any and boy did I get a bit of sticker shock.

There was a swap meet in Tucson last Saturday that I was going to anyway so I figured I'd see if I could find anything up there. There were several used AFBs around but most sellers were asking E Bay prices. I did find one Carter 9635S that the guy was asking $60 on (about twice what I’d normally pay for a builder) but I bit the bullet and bought it anyway……..if I didn’t find a mate for it I figured I could built it and either keep it on hand or sell it. I found the “bargain of the day” a little later when a guy set up across the road from me (selling mostly flea market stuff) and set out a pretty grungy looking 9625S for $5.


sm2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


There are a couple of minor external differences between the 9635 and 9625 but they are both 625 CFM and internally identical.

They both cleaned up well and I had enough parts on hand to build one so I only had to buy one kit. I verified they were both jetted the same and have the same step rods and springs so that will be my starting point.

I built the carb I’m going to be using as the primary carb back to the way it originally was and removed the choke from the carb that will be used as the secondary carb. It happens the carb spacing on the factory manifold is just right to use an aftermarket fuel line for a Holley dual feed double pumper, which takes care of having to build fuel lines. The carb spacing is the same on both the First Gen Chrysler Hemi and the factory B and RB cast iron in line dual quad manifolds the fuel line will work for either

DQ by M Patterson, on Flickr

So with the cost of the carbs and 1 kit, I’m into the carbs for about $100……sometimes life isn’t not too bad.
_________________________
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Tri Power, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)

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#2403912 - 11/15/17 09:20 AM Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P]
moparx Offline
master

Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 7937
Loc: north of coder
those carbs look good. what did you use to clean them with ?
beer

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#2407234 - 11/22/17 04:50 AM Re: Revisiting the 57 Plymouth [Re: Mike P]
Mike P Offline
pro stock

Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 1339
Loc: AZ

When I decided to put the dual quads on the 57 and started looking around for AFBs I became concerned that I would have a problem finding affordable builders. I did luck out and found the 625 CFM AFBs though and got them rebuilt and ready to use. They weren’t my first choice but I’m pretty sure they will work out fine.

My first choice was a pair of early 60s Cadillac AFBs. I’d used a pair of these on my 65 Chevy (350 4 speed) years ago and really liked the way they ran. I had one sitting on the shelf and had keep my eyes open for a mate for it for years but never was lucky enough to find one.

It never fails, a couple of days after I got 625s rebuilt I found out a friend of mine had the Cadillac carb I wanted sitting on his shelf gathering dust. We ended up doing a bit of trading and it ended up in my shop.


Cad AF by M Patterson, on Flickr


I picked up a couple of kits and got them both taken apart and cleaned up. You could tell it had been a long time since anybody had been into to them (I think they had both had kits at least once sometime in the past). When was the last time you took a carburetor apart and it had steel needles (no “rubber” tips) in it?

SN by M Patterson, on Flickr



So now I have 2 pairs of carbs to try out on the 57.


Cad AFB 2 by M Patterson, on Flickr


These AFBs are a little unusual compared to most of the ones produced. They are 575 CFM and don’t have an idle speed adjustment screw. The throttle plates are closed at idle and the speed is adjusted with the brass air bleed screw located between the fuel mixture screws. As they are the early AFBs they have the also have the smaller 4 7/32” air cleaner base instead of the 5 1/8” used on the later AFBs. I found an outfit that sells aluminum adapter rings for the air cleaners so that I have a pair of those coming too.

I’m going to set both pairs of carbs up for synchronized and progressive linkage while the intake is still on the bench. So now I’m down to building 4 sets of carb linkage. Whatever set carbs I don’t end up using on the 57 will probably eventually find a home on something else around here.

As far as cleaning them it depends on how bad they are. I always soak them in a 5 gallon can of carburetor I have here (I'm not sure who made it, the can is 7 or 8 years old and I've had to replace the original can it was in....it might have been hydro-seal). Then it's spray can carb cleaner and compressed air especially thru the internal passages. A little steel wool and elbow grease usually works if there is stubborn gunk. Although I really hate doing it if they are internally salvageable but bad on the outside I have been known to seal everything up and bead blast the outside to clean them up. It takes a long time and a lot of carb cleaner to clean them afterward though. I've never had a problem with a carb I've done this to, but that is usually a last resort.




Edited by Mike P (11/22/17 07:25 PM)
_________________________
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Tri Power, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10)
1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56)

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