Tips Tuning Stroker
#2396996
11/01/17 10:11 PM
11/01/17 10:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571 Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571
Spring Hill Fl
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I got to the track this weekend, car ran pretty good but only MPHd at 116 MPH. I thought that was weaker than it should have been. ET was 11.71. Race weight is 4220. Running a 4 speed and 3.54 gear with 28" drag radials, so it really wasn't strong off the line, but thought it would be producing more steam at the big end. So far, this is where I am. 526 CI 440 source kit, 10.1 CR, quench at .046 Mopar 337 intake polished with ports matched, 850 Mighty Demon annular Trick Flow 240s, Trick flow heads, ported 246 cc runners INT 1. 99 2. 170 3. 243 4. 306 5. 340 6. 352 7. 370 Doug's D452 headers, 2" primaries, 3 1/2" collector I ran the 3" TTI exhaust connected. Cam is 260/264 @ 50, .616/.620 108 in at 104 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-720152-08/overview/Mancini 1.6 rockers I am running the lash @ .014 instead of .018, lots quieter. Running at 36 degrees total, in by 2800 rpm Car feels like it pulls strong to 7,000 rpm after it gets rolling. Checked vacuum running through the gears, even @ 7000 rpms, the gauge does not come off zero. AFR stays right around low 13s down the track. Compression is 175 across the cylinders. Did I make a bad choice on the cam? The people I checked with before building gave it a thumbs up. Wallace calculator says a little better than 500hp,what should I try to make more power at this point. Although I don't have any dyno simulator, I was thinking closer to 600 hp than 500.
Last edited by 65Fury440; 11/01/17 10:12 PM.
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: 65Fury440]
#2397107
11/02/17 12:44 AM
11/02/17 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,729 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,729
Portage,michigan
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I think you did pretty good. Take 1000 pounds off that car and its in the 10's easily without much gear or compression. Pretty impressive. Cam in my little 360 is 260@50 as well and its just a touch over 10 to 1 itself. At over 500 inches hard to believe your cam is " too big" How do you launch the car and what rpm is it crossing the stripe at?
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: 65Fury440]
#2397125
11/02/17 01:26 AM
11/02/17 01:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315
Bend,OR USA
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What where your sixty foot times?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: 65Fury440]
#2397128
11/02/17 01:29 AM
11/02/17 01:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
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4220 is a lot on weight to get moving, especially with a stock gear. I can see a lot of breakage in your future. At 3200 lbs.my .Barracuda 440 source pump gas 505 runs 10.30 at 130 with 4.56 gears . So if the calculation of .1 tenth per 100 pound loss your into the tens. My advice is to loose weight, change the gear to maybe a 4.10 if this is street / strip car more gear if strip only.
it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: 65Fury440]
#2397132
11/02/17 01:35 AM
11/02/17 01:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Lots of cam and head flow, but perhaps not enough carburetor to feed the RPMs they want. With a heavy car, you may have been better off focusing on midrange torque than top end hp (??). With that said, Don’t let yourself get disappointed the first time out. It takes trial and error to find what makes each combo ET. That’s a lot of weight you’re pushing; you’re really going to have to have the chassis work well to get 4220 to ET effectively. My car goes 3820, and I thought it was a load.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: AndyF]
#2397142
11/02/17 01:47 AM
11/02/17 01:47 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571 Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571
Spring Hill Fl
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I think the cam is too big for your car and gears. That is probably why your cranking compression is a little low although there could be a lot of reasons for a low cranking compression.
My old 466 ran a 236 @ 050 solid flat tappet with ported RPM heads and cranking compression was 200 psi. That engine made 550 on the dyno and 475 rwhp. I tried bigger cams in that engine but they lost toque down low and didn't make up for it at the top end.
If it was my car I'd double check everything before pulling the engine apart, but if it all checks out I'd go about 10 degrees smaller on the cam and see what happens.
In the short term you can tweak the timing a little bit. Maybe add some jet, pull some timing out and stuff like that. Sounds like you have a wideband in the car so that helps to sort stuff out. Keep an eye on the plugs also.
Are you sure the intake port match is good? I had to build my own valley plate with batwing gasket holders to get the intake gaskets lined up properly with the 240 heads. I'll play with the timing a little bit and maybe give it some more jet. The intake and heads both looked good on the MW sized gasket, although I was sucking some oil past the gasket, and had to use some motoseal to get it to seal up. I read a post you made a while back, where a 337 intake kept making power over 7k. I was trying to use that as a basis to match the top end. I probably need to get a Dyno simulation program to play with. Thanks for your thoughts!
Last edited by 65Fury440; 11/02/17 01:54 AM.
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: sgcuda]
#2397143
11/02/17 01:48 AM
11/02/17 01:48 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571 Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571
Spring Hill Fl
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You can find out real fast if the cam is too big. Open up the lash to .018-.020 and run it again. I didn't realize it would affect duration, I'll try it, thanks!
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: B3422W5]
#2397147
11/02/17 01:53 AM
11/02/17 01:53 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571 Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
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Posts: 571
Spring Hill Fl
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I think you did pretty good. Take 1000 pounds off that car and its in the 10's easily without much gear or compression. Pretty impressive. Cam in my little 360 is 260@50 as well and its just a touch over 10 to 1 itself. At over 500 inches hard to believe your cam is " too big" How do you launch the car and what rpm is it crossing the stripe at? Yea I spoke to several people who agreed they did not think it was too much. There is no way I'm going to drop 1000 pounds, but, I plan on some fiberglass bumpers and hood. I only got 4 runs in, the best time was launching at 3500, shifting at 7, and shifting into 4th just before the stripe. I think I was at 5100 rpms or close. Thanks for the reply!
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: rowin4]
#2397150
11/02/17 02:03 AM
11/02/17 02:03 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571 Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571
Spring Hill Fl
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4220 is a lot on weight to get moving, especially with a stock gear. I can see a lot of breakage in your future. At 3200 lbs.my .Barracuda 440 source pump gas 505 runs 10.30 at 130 with 4.56 gears . So if the calculation of .1 tenth per 100 pound loss your into the tens. My advice is to loose weight, change the gear to maybe a 4.10 if this is street / strip car more gear if strip only. I already have been looking around for 4.10s. The clutch wasn't liking the 4500 rpm launch much. Thanks for the reply!
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: StealthWedge67]
#2397153
11/02/17 02:07 AM
11/02/17 02:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571 Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571
Spring Hill Fl
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Lots of cam and head flow, but perhaps not enough carburetor to feed the RPMs they want. With a heavy car, you may have been better off focusing on midrange torque than top end hp (??). With that said, Don’t let yourself get disappointed the first time out. It takes trial and error to find what makes each combo ET. That’s a lot of weight you’re pushing; you’re really going to have to have the chassis work well to get 4220 to ET effectively. My car goes 3820, and I thought it was a load. I love your car. My car was a bit lighter before the sub frame connectors and full exhaust. It weighs 3960 now. Thanks for the post!
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: 65Fury440]
#2397184
11/02/17 07:46 AM
11/02/17 07:46 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570 UK
rb446
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 570
UK
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using wallace with your weight/tyre/gear and 540hp I get> 60 Foot E.T. : 1.61 1/8 Mile E.T. : 7.29 1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 93.20 1/4 Mile E.T. : 11.56 1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 116 1/4 Mile Trap RPM : 4,928 with 4.10's its 5700 trap, better...4.3's>6000, I reckon there's more in there hp wise, just got to unleash it at the right time. As an example, I was running 13.31@101 in street/strip mode with 3.55's/26" slick and a 3500stall combo. I added, 4.30's/28" tyre, 4200stall+ better cam/carb/hdrs and went 12.39@108.6, mph shows +65hp in the motor which is not a second improvement in ET, its how/when its delivered.
1969 'Cuda 446ci, best 9.96@133.9 in 1990 1971 340 'Cuda, best 11.01@122.8 in 1987
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Re: Tips Tuning Stroker
[Re: 65Fury440]
#2397395
11/02/17 04:35 PM
11/02/17 04:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571 Spring Hill Fl
65Fury440
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571
Spring Hill Fl
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Thanks for all the replies,
Cab-The drag radials are dead hooking at this point, maybe a turn. They are spinning as much hitting second gear, once the engine is building steam. 60s in the 1.5x area would be great!!!!
SG Cuda - yup they sure would. Going from 28" tires to 26" should reduce the effective gear ratio to 3.8, so that will help some
EchosSixMike- I dont know about the carb. AndyF said he seen 20-30 hp going to a dominator because of a superior spray pattern. My carb isn't making any vacuum even at 7k.
FurryStump- I was told by a local carb shop he estimates it close to 1080 cfm
Dom- Yea it is in future plans. It will require removing the hood for clearance. That, and probably an electric booster pump?
I am going back out to TNT with 26" tires, without the hood, a 2" spacer, and play with timing and jetting.
I also just got a FBO box and coil to replace the orange box. I was getting some breakup over 6k.
Hopefully the driver will be better.
Last edited by 65Fury440; 11/02/17 04:36 PM.
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