Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2396088
10/31/17 03:14 PM
10/31/17 03:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
Will be taking my charger to the track soon, my first time behind the wheel. For those of you thatve had this happen to you, can you give me some advice on what to do when high speed wobbles or fishtailing happens? It's the only thing I'm really nervous about
Find someone that knows what they are doing and do a 4 wheel alignment on it. Go on the high side with the caster. Check both front and rear tire roll-out.


Fastest 300
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2396092
10/31/17 03:22 PM
10/31/17 03:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
If it starts to get unstable, just let off the gas. Too many try to be a hero and stay in it.

Only time I've ever had a high speed issue was w/ bias ply tires that had too little air pressure.
iagree My "first" dedicated drag race car was a 1960 Dodge Phoenix that weighed over 4100 lbs. without me in it, I put a cheater 1959 SS 383 stroker motor (unknown C.I., 4.375 stroke with a 4.410 bore, I think confused I didn't have any micrometers back then realcrazy) in it. It ran high 12.s at 105 MPH at the old Thermal air port drags in Coachella Valley, CA a long time ago shruggy It had a set of 5.0x14 inch stock steel rims on it with a set of Penny 8.00x14 7 inch wide drag slicks with probably way to little air pressure in them confused realcrazy It would wonder around every time I let off at any speed above 30 MPH, I soon learned that the back had to follow the front as long as I didn't try to correct with the steering wheel shock up work
I would put a tiny bit of left turn into the wheel after I let off in the 1/4 mile and let it slow down while the back end sashay around all it wanted to whistling
I've never crashed a car at the track, YET luck
Not so on street cars down whiney
Be safe, don't crash tsk

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/31/17 03:23 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2396283
10/31/17 09:07 PM
10/31/17 09:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
T
TRENDZ Offline
master
TRENDZ  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
Don’t stab the brakes at the end of the track. A lot of problems can come from this.


"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Cab_Burge] #2396312
10/31/17 10:00 PM
10/31/17 10:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
I've had several ill handling cars at the track, do NOT OVER CORRECT tsk
If you start to feel uncomfortable lift your right foot a little or all the way off, DO NOT jerk the steering wheel around, make all steering inputs gently, a tiny bit, not a BUNCH scope
4 speed cars can get your schynter(SP?) really tight in a hurry at WOT whistling
Once it starts to make you feel bad do something to correct it up Don't take time to think about what to do at WOT and then do something, don't freeze up tsk twocents
That's all good info, but that car should not be doing that, especially at that power level. Something is physically wrong with it! I doubt if it is driver error.


Fastest 300
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Crizila] #2398331
11/04/17 11:04 AM
11/04/17 11:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
A
Adam71Charger Offline OP
pro stock
Adam71Charger  Offline OP
pro stock
A

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
Originally Posted By Crizila
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
I've had several ill handling cars at the track, do NOT OVER CORRECT tsk
If you start to feel uncomfortable lift your right foot a little or all the way off, DO NOT jerk the steering wheel around, make all steering inputs gently, a tiny bit, not a BUNCH scope
4 speed cars can get your schynter(SP?) really tight in a hurry at WOT whistling
Once it starts to make you feel bad do something to correct it up Don't take time to think about what to do at WOT and then do something, don't freeze up tsk twocents
That's all good info, but that car should not be doing that, especially at that power level. Something is physically wrong with it! I doubt if it is driver error.


I haven't been to the track, Ill be going soon, just gotta drop the broke in 446 into the engine bay and wrap up some interior issues..

I posted this question to get some edumacation bout the shimmys and fishtailing ive seen watching other racers, many which went out of control and smashed up some really nice cars. I just want to be prepared. Im going to do what was suggested, make a few light runs and see if I encounter any steering/suspension issues, and get them worked out before I try again.

I replaced my entire font suspension with new pitman/idler, all tie rods ball joints, control arm bushings, strut rod bushings, center link. had my power steerin box rebuilt, welded steering box supports, reinforced the mounts for the strut rods, skid plate and boxed my lca's, 1.06 firm feel torsion bars, steering shaft connection (forget what that was called) and also frame connectors. Ive done an alignment but will redo it once the engine is in.

Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2398344
11/04/17 11:40 AM
11/04/17 11:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
master
Hemi_Joel  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,489
Minnesota
What I learned from Frank Hawley is that sometimes if the car isn't going straight, it's because the driver is inadvertently moving the steering wheel from the shock of the launch or when they shift. Without even realizing it. An in-car video camera identifies any driver related problems.
Frank also said that if the car gets out of the groove always abort the pass.


[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2398346
11/04/17 11:46 AM
11/04/17 11:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
What do you expect to run, ET and speed? Sounds like you have done a lot of suspension work on it already. Fast cars can be no fun if they are ill handling. Did you check setback, tire roll-out? My Land yacht had set back issues ( factory quality control ). Once that was addressed, it was a different car at the track.

300burnout.jpg

Fastest 300
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2398368
11/04/17 01:00 PM
11/04/17 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,248
fredericksburg,va
C
cudaman1969 Offline
master
cudaman1969  Offline
master
C

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,248
fredericksburg,va
The first time down the track I set the throttle cable-rod about half pull. Opening up a little more each pass, you learn more about you and the car till you feel easy makeing an all out pass. Very fail safe. I've seen one guy go full out on the first time out, did a giant wheel stand and come down hard, flip and totaled his car, ended up on the roof. The more HP the more unpredictable it is.
Might add, make your first settings soft, engine tune, suspension, then work up to the best, not on kill right off the bat. Learn your combo in steps.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 11/04/17 01:05 PM.
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2398371
11/04/17 01:07 PM
11/04/17 01:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
dthemi Offline
master
dthemi  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
Toe in is your friend

Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2398608
11/04/17 11:51 PM
11/04/17 11:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,099
Massillon, Ohio
C
cudatom Offline
super stock
cudatom  Offline
super stock
C

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,099
Massillon, Ohio
The only car I had an issue w/the shimmys was my wagon. Issue for me was at 4000 lbs it did not like the old centerline 3.5" wide rims. Add the Flaming River quick ratio gear box and it was a but pucker ride.
Added 5" rims and put in the factory gear box from my cuda and the car goes down the track like I'm cruising down the highway. Night and day. Some like the quick ratio box but for me it just didnt wk.

Last edited by cudatom; 11/05/17 12:02 AM. Reason: Correction

Ok
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2398612
11/05/17 12:17 AM
11/05/17 12:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,951
northwest USA
N
NANKET Offline
master
NANKET  Offline
master
N

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,951
northwest USA
It is now November, what track are you going to go to soon?

Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2398616
11/05/17 12:20 AM
11/05/17 12:20 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
On your deal I think your expecting the worst case scenario, which is good but don't be surprised if it goes straight arrow from A to B with no baloney sauce or problems luck thumbs
You could do a hard launch only or a soft launch and then hit it with WOT until you shift it into high gear and then let off or lift some and drive it to the lights work Your choice up

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/05/17 12:26 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Best way to counter speed wobbles/fish tailing at track? [Re: Adam71Charger] #2398680
11/05/17 04:13 AM
11/05/17 04:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted By Adam71Charger
Thanks guys. I've spent years putting this car together and don't wanna crunch it.

Fast68, I'm actually in the process of selecting my tires to. I have 15x10 wheels in the back of my mini tubbed 71 charger. It's auto, 9.5 4200 converter, Dana 60 4.10, has the multi clutch posi (forget the real name of this type of diff), 446 with the st21 cam, 950hp holley, 1 7/8 long tubes into dual 3", makes 525ish hp (little more tuning to do), about 4000lbs with me, I'm gonna use drag radials but can't decide on what size, what do you think?

Your combination sounds to me like it should be in the mid to high 11s, once it's sorted out. That'a lot of weight, and it doesn't sound like the suspension setup is especially drag-focused, specifically those big torsion bars won't help with getting the front end up off the line to help plant the tires.

I don't think a 275/60 is tall enough. The ST-21 is not a high RPM cam, which is why I think it needs something in the 29"+ diameter to keep the revs down with the 4.10s on the top end (assuming 1/4 mile, not 1/8).

If the suspension & steering aren't sloppy, it should drive fine on radials.

Page 2 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1