Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
#2389878
10/19/17 04:27 PM
10/19/17 04:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,741 North Dakota
6PakBee
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OP
I Live Here
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I'm seriously considering using a JVX adapter kit and putting a four speed automatic behind a stock 375 HP 440. It looks like a 42RH or 46RH would be suitable. I know nothing about the torque capabilities of either unit. Would the 42RH be adequate or would the 46RH be a better choice? Again, keep in mind my experience stopped with the late 70's Torqueflite so this is all uncharted territory.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2389891
10/19/17 04:45 PM
10/19/17 04:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,513 AZ
Mike P
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,513
AZ
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The 46RH were based on the 727 Torqueflites and I believe the 42s are based on the lighter duty 904s. They didn't put 904s behind Big Blocks for a reason.
I used a 46RH in the 37 Dodge PU that I just got running. I'm impress enough with it I'm considering building another one to replace the 4 speed in my 57 Plymouth.
1957 Plymouth (Hemi, Dual Quads, A833 4 Speed 9 1/4 w 4.10) Sold 1937 Dodge Pickup (Hemi, 6X2 intake, 46RH, Dana 60 w 4.56) Sold 1968 Plymouth Valiant 2dr sedan (354 HEMI, 46RH w/4.30 gears) under construction
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: Kern Dog]
#2389926
10/19/17 05:55 PM
10/19/17 05:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089 Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089
Michigan
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A9xx evolved in to 42/44RH then RE. A727trans evolved in to 46/47/48 RH/RE.
The numeric coding was adapted by most of the OE's to show number of speeds and relative torque capacity.
A500/518/618 are useless designations when you compare to the industry example above.
46 = 4/number of speeds and 6/relative torque capacity. 47 has same number of speeds as the 46 but more torque capacity, 48 same number of speeds but more torque capacity.
As for what to use, you don't mention what vehicle you are going to install the unit in. A passenger car used for normal driving would have no issues with a 42/44. It offers a lower first and second gear than the larger units, is lighter too. All of them have lockup. Consider that the 44 was used in Jeeps and light truck, so if the unit is built correctly you should have no issues.
If you are going to flog the unit more than drive it you may want to consider the large box.
Last edited by Transman; 10/19/17 05:56 PM.
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2389935
10/19/17 06:15 PM
10/19/17 06:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,089 Michigan
A727Tflite
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2011
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Michigan
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The three speed evolved in to the four speeds with the addition of the over drive assembly.
Last edited by Transman; 10/19/17 06:16 PM.
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2389941
10/19/17 06:17 PM
10/19/17 06:17 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,869 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,869
Pattison Texas
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I'm seriously considering using a JVX adapter kit and putting a four speed automatic behind a stock 375 HP 440. It looks like a 42RH or 46RH would be suitable. I know nothing about the torque capabilities of either unit. Would the 42RH be adequate or would the 46RH be a better choice? Again, keep in mind my experience stopped with the late 70's Torqueflite so this is all uncharted territory. You have to cut up the torsion bar x member, bang on the floor board & make a custom x member.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2389988
10/19/17 07:59 PM
10/19/17 07:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,216 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,216
Benton, IL.
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I put a 518 behind the Hemi last year. There is room for the 518s and there are plenty of them. The cores cost about the same and there is not a lot of money difference to rebuild each, so there is not much incentive for you to go with the lighter 500.
I did not have to do any crossmember cutting putting one into my 70 Cuda. There was one place that needed a 2 inch or so dent make in the floor board for clearance. I bought a fabbed crossmember, but they are not complicated to make. I am just not good at fabrication, so buying one already made was easier.
You will likely have the thing rebuilt before you put it in, so which one you start with (46, 47, 48) won't matter much in the end. As long as it's an RH (not RE) which had the small oval 2 or 3 pin connector.
The earliest 518s had the 2 pin connector. After a couple of years, they added the lock-up torque converter and the connector became a 3 pin to accommodate it.
I went with the non lock-up because there is a much better selection of torque converters. But for a milder street car, that might not be an issue and there can certainly be an argument made for the lockup. And they made the lock-up version longer, so there actually should be more of them.
If you have a competent 727 tranny guy locally, I feel the best bet is to grab a core at a salvage yard ($200+/-) and have it built the way you want it. That can be anywhere from $600 to $1,200.
Based on my experience, the cost of the swap could be anywhere from $1,000 to $2,500.
There are a number of threads around that detail the swap. One has step by step pictures. It is bit involved, but not too bad.
Master, again and still
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2390016
10/19/17 08:58 PM
10/19/17 08:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,953 GA
roadrunninMark
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
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GA
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The 42RH is a smaller case and uses less HP to drive it. Problem is in stock config it isn't very strong. You can build it to handle the power. It just costs more. a stock 375hp 440 is easily doable with a hopped up 42RH. Another nice thing about the 42 is the better gear spread, first gear is a 2.74 vs. 2.45 first gear. Second is 1.54 vs. 1.45. OD is same on both at .69. I am building one to go behind a small block that should have about 400hp. SMR is a great company to get parts/info. Also PATC has parts and reasonable prices on torque converters, I just ordered mine from them. Here is a great thread on the whole install and comments/questions...and of course wiring it up. GDonovan here has a great schematic too. http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=84774.0
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2390053
10/19/17 10:31 PM
10/19/17 10:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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A 440 doesn't need a lower first gear than 2.45, so that point is moot.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: Supercuda]
#2390112
10/20/17 12:18 AM
10/20/17 12:18 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,251 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,251
Bend,OR USA
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A 440 doesn't need a lower first gear than 2.45, so that point is moot.
My old M.W. stocker like the Mopar 2.77 low gear set at the drags That car ran low elevens back in the late 1980s on nine inch tires, that car liked the low gear set a lot. It out ran every Mopar M.W stocker in B/SA at the 1988 NHRA World finals I had heard of several other M.W. racers in 1964 cars that said that same gear set in their cars spun the tires But they didn't change the rear gear ratio like I did when I did that gear swap in the tranny If you don't test, you don't learn Some times you have to go sideways or backup to find what does work in testing
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/20/17 12:19 AM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2390132
10/20/17 01:03 AM
10/20/17 01:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,869 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,869
Pattison Texas
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I put a 518 behind the Hemi last year. There is room for the 518s and there are plenty of them. The cores cost about the same and there is not a lot of money difference to rebuild each, so there is not much incentive for you to go with the lighter 500.
I did not have to do any crossmember cutting putting one into my 70 Cuda. There was one place that needed a 2 inch or so dent make in the floor board for clearance. I bought a fabbed crossmember, but they are not complicated to make. I am just not good at fabrication, so buying one already made was easier.
You will likely have the thing rebuilt before you put it in, so which one you start with (46, 47, 48) won't matter much in the end. As long as it's an RH (not RE) which had the small oval 2 or 3 pin connector.
The earliest 518s had the 2 pin connector. After a couple of years, they added the lock-up torque converter and the connector became a 3 pin to accommodate it.
I went with the non lock-up because there is a much better selection of torque converters. But for a milder street car, that might not be an issue and there can certainly be an argument made for the lockup. And they made the lock-up version longer, so there actually should be more of them.
If you have a competent 727 tranny guy locally, I feel the best bet is to grab a core at a salvage yard ($200+/-) and have it built the way you want it. That can be anywhere from $600 to $1,200.
Based on my experience, the cost of the swap could be anywhere from $1,000 to $2,500.
There are a number of threads around that detail the swap. One has step by step pictures. It is bit involved, but not too bad. no cutting on an E body might be true, not so on my 1968 Charger.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2390263
10/20/17 12:47 PM
10/20/17 12:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,741 North Dakota
6PakBee
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,741
North Dakota
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...As for what to use, you don't mention what vehicle you are going to install the unit in.... Sorry, this would be going into a 1968 Charger. Thanks to everybody who commented. There is no substitute for this type of spirited discussion with a multitude of opinions and real world experience.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#2390326
10/20/17 03:38 PM
10/20/17 03:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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The 904 evolved into the 500 which was later renamed the 42RH. The 727->518->46RH. 1996+ went to the RE models which are useless to you so make sure you don't get one of those.
I have read others who went to the GM 4 speed autos for better/cheaper aftermarket support and a smaller physical size to not have to cut. One day when I get off of my ass, I want to get one of those A41 4 speed kits from Silver Sport. They are based on the GM 700R4.
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: Kern Dog]
#2390361
10/20/17 05:11 PM
10/20/17 05:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,251 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,251
Bend,OR USA
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One of my local customers did that conversion, took out a good 727 and put in a GM 250 4 speed over drive, lots of money and problems making it work and shift the way he wants it to. Two different converters and lots of labor so far and he is still not happy This went into a 1963 M.W. Fury with 3.23 gears, he said originally he wanted better mileage, it is a real nice drive to show car and doesn't get driven over 3000 miles a year. He later change the rear gear ratio from 3.23 to 3.55 to make it accelerate better The parts and pieces cost a bunch over what he will save in fuel cost if he doesn't start driving it over 30,000 a year My message is be careful of what you do to your car to make it better
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/20/17 05:12 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Four Speed Overdrive Automatic
[Re: Kern Dog]
#2390403
10/20/17 06:47 PM
10/20/17 06:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,902 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,902
Rio Linda, CA
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One day when I get off of my ass, I want to get one of those A41 4 speed kits from Silver Sport. They are based on the GM 700R4.
Wise decision, the 700R4 is superior in all the areas discussed.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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