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70's small block durability mods for 700hp #2322507
06/17/17 04:08 AM
06/17/17 04:08 AM
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Granbury TX
Prochargedmopar Offline OP
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I know there are some very fast and experienced racers on this board.

What are some of the top things that I can do to a 76' small block 360 to make it more durable without breaking the bank.

Because the bank is already broke with the purchase of below parts:
new heads ($2200)
New 78mm turbo and parts ($840)
New sniper EFI ($1250)
Machining and balance ($??)

I've acquired parts to make more HP than I think the stock block may be able to handle.
Not sure, never been there or done that. Yet.
Goal is 700 or more blown/turboed.
Both if need be. smile

I do have diamond forged pistons 1/16,1/16 rings
Main studs
Eagle SIR I beam rods (says good to 500hp??)
I will NOT be spinning this thing above 6000 rpms

Someone mentioned a short fill.
Someone else said I need a forged crank.
What about a main girdle?

For those of you who have done it not just hypothesized about it.
What's the STRAIGHT scoop?



Last edited by prochargedmopar; 06/17/17 11:29 AM.

"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001
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Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2322534
06/17/17 09:36 AM
06/17/17 09:36 AM
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CA.
RAY1969CARS Offline
pro stock
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Your tune will have to be spot on no detonation

Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: RAY1969CARS] #2322538
06/17/17 10:06 AM
06/17/17 10:06 AM
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pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
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Take those sir rods and heave them over the closest cliff and walk away


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: pittsburghracer] #2322571
06/17/17 11:43 AM
06/17/17 11:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 274
Granbury TX
Prochargedmopar Offline OP
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Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Take those sir rods and heave them over the closest cliff and walk away


I know your one of the guys who has the knowledge to do it.
Any other tips or will it hold up with above parts sands the SIRs?

Before I balance what about these?
It says: 7500rpm/700hp

https://www.ebay.com/itm/291747788433

IMG_0967.PNG

"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001
Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL
71 Ply Satellite Procharged
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08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted
02 Mercedes C230K
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Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2322611
06/17/17 01:24 PM
06/17/17 01:24 PM
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pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John
pittsburghracer  Offline
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We finally hurt an engine (408) last year and something hit the block so I'm assuming a rod broke but it's not apart yet for me to see. This was a K1crank and K1 rods with upgraded bolts which I always do. It was rebuilt 3 times and in need of its 4th when my son asked to borrow it and finally let go. I particularly blame running alcohol as it's harder on bearing, bore wear, and other issues.


1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Livin and lovin life one day at a time




Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2322702
06/17/17 06:16 PM
06/17/17 06:16 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Do you want to trust imported rod bolts? work
ARP makes several different quality and priced rod bolts, all in 7/16 diameter shruggy
The #8740 are the cheapest and weakest , their ARP 2000 are better and more expensive and their L19 bolts are the most expensive and strongest for all racing applications with a lot(500+ HP and 7000+ RPM)
The piston total weight and ring pack affect drag and weight, and the RPM they (all components)will fail at shruggy
Good luck, buy the best rods, pistons, rings and bearings you can for this build, not the cheapest twocents


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2322709
06/17/17 06:31 PM
06/17/17 06:31 PM
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Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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From what I know of small blocks isn't headgasket failure and issue with too much boost/compression?
Gus


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Cab_Burge] #2322711
06/17/17 06:36 PM
06/17/17 06:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 274
Granbury TX
Prochargedmopar Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Do you want to trust imported rod bolts? work
ARP makes several different quality and priced rod bolts, all in 7/16 diameter shruggy
The #8740 are the cheapest and weakest , their ARP 2000 are better and more expensive and their L19 bolts are the most expensive and strongest for all racing applications with a lot(500+ HP and 7000+ RPM)
The piston total weight and ring pack affect drag and weight, and the RPM they (all components)will fail at shruggy
Good luck, buy the best rods, pistons, rings and bearings you can for this build, not the cheapest twocents


Current bob weight is calculated at 1932.
I used mopar rod bolts in stock rods for 72k miles
without issue. 5800 rpm redline and 10psi.
RPM will not be over 6k, most likely 5500 so I could use STOCK rod bolts and never have a problem.

Compression strength around the base of the big end on the rod beam is what I need.
Nothing is going to fly apart in this engine. Gonna get smashed or twisted from boost first.
. :-)

Last edited by prochargedmopar; 06/17/17 06:39 PM.

"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001
Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL
71 Ply Satellite Procharged
73 Dodge Dart Swinger
73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb
01 Town and Country Limited
08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted
02 Mercedes C230K
19 Camry
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2322715
06/17/17 06:42 PM
06/17/17 06:42 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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$200 H beam rods will be perfect. Or just stick with the stockers. Sounds like you have it figured out.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: CMcAllister] #2322752
06/17/17 08:46 PM
06/17/17 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
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Granbury TX
Prochargedmopar Offline OP
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Head gasket troubles?

I think so.
Maybe this will help.
Maybe not.

Chevy guys make 1000hp to the wheels with a junk yard base.
Lucky dogs.



IMG_0971.PNG
Last edited by prochargedmopar; 06/17/17 08:52 PM.

"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001
Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL
71 Ply Satellite Procharged
73 Dodge Dart Swinger
73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb
01 Town and Country Limited
08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted
02 Mercedes C230K
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Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2322875
06/18/17 01:15 AM
06/18/17 01:15 AM
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Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Its a junkyard base yes but it has been taken apart, the rings have been gapped, the cam has been changed, fastners changed etc. Matts truck is impressive on the dyno for sure and its no slouch on the track but it doesn't spend much time there.


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Bad340fish] #2322995
06/18/17 11:59 AM
06/18/17 11:59 AM
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Granbury TX
Prochargedmopar Offline OP
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Prochargedmopar  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By Bad340fish
Its a junkyard base yes but it has been taken apart, the rings have been gapped, the cam has been changed, fastners changed etc. Matts truck is impressive on the dyno for sure and its no slouch on the track but it doesn't spend much time there.


All fasteners and gaskets in his engine are reused against factory recommendations.
Even the "stretchy" head bolts.
Everything is torqued to 65ish lb. ft. or untill it FEELS like
it is about to snap.

Like I said.

Unfare advantage as chevy built this engine using racing technology.
6 bolt skirted block.
Cylinder bores special hardened material that does not get a ridge even after 250k miles.
Crank good to 1000hp reliably.
2nd gen rods good to 900hp.
Heads super high angle factory cast ports with excellent deck thickness.
Shorty ductile Iron headers.
Solid pistons and intake manifold.

Blah. (sticks finger down throat)


"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001
Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL
71 Ply Satellite Procharged
73 Dodge Dart Swinger
73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb
01 Town and Country Limited
08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted
02 Mercedes C230K
19 Camry
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2323133
06/18/17 04:10 PM
06/18/17 04:10 PM
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Fulton County, PA
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CMcAllister Offline
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Oh well. 60 year old technology vs. a very good LS design. I guess I should be upset that I can't text with my old rotary phone.


If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2323138
06/18/17 04:29 PM
06/18/17 04:29 PM
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Texas
dannysbee Offline
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It's an apple to orange comparison. Put a rod and piston in a third gen Hemi and give it hell.


Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2323191
06/18/17 06:18 PM
06/18/17 06:18 PM
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda Online content
master
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While what you really need is a race block, I fully understand the budget issues.

I have cracked cylinder walls on half filled stock blocks with a lot less than 700 hp. However it was with over 16 to 1 compression.

I would fill the block as high as you dare. Its cheap and it will help.

Good luck!
Bill

Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2323355
06/18/17 11:47 PM
06/18/17 11:47 PM
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sioux falls, sd
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10sec.dart Offline
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Definitely do a forged crank, ditch the I beams and get some H beams, Also I would suggest doing the oil cross over line in the lifter valley, tap in-between 8 and 6 lifter valley and 1 and 3 lifter valley, connect them with a I believe 3/8 tubing, have done it on last two motors and it works great, oil doesn't have to travel down the passenger side to the front main up to the drivers side and back, puts oil directly on drivers side and helps aid in oiling to front main bearing, there is actually a really good article on oiling mods somewhere online, I did all I could, drilling out main passages to true 1/2'' and mains from the lifter feed to true 9/32, I was really surprised how small they got once you got 2 inches in, I always run full grove main bearings as well, the way I see it with full grove bearings your rods get oiling all the time, with 1/2 or 3/4 bearings you are restricting oil to rods to timed oil, just like the rocker arms, just a few tricks that could help it live at that power...

Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: 10sec.dart] #2323640
06/19/17 03:25 PM
06/19/17 03:25 PM
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dogdays Offline
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The 360 has the largest main bearings of Chrysler OEM V8s. I'd not put $$$ into a forged crank, buy instead a new 9000 Series from SCAT.
Also the SIR rods have been good for the last 4 years or so but I'd replace them with SCAT Pro series. There is no inherent superiority of H-beam over I-beam, and horsepower ratings for connecting rods are bogus from the start. Having said that, the SCAT have several good points, material, 7/16" bolt size, and low weight especially compared to the stock rods.

By keeping rpm low, you are extending the life of the engine.

R.


Last edited by dogdays; 06/19/17 03:43 PM.
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2323679
06/19/17 04:41 PM
06/19/17 04:41 PM
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Granbury TX
Prochargedmopar Offline OP
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Ok.
Short block fill is on my list.


I'm having a hard time finding rods to use because of the pistons.

Must be 1.123-1.125 length. (edit 6.xxx)
Must have .927 small end diameter
Can be either 2.125 or 2.10 big end dia.
Must have big end width of .927

Most all I find that would work have a .940-.945 width.
How hard is it for the crank grinder to open up for rod side clearance?

Either that or I buy a mopar sb rod and have the small end bushed.
Is that less expensive?

Scat 9000 cranks are only $300ish.
If I bought one of those it would be a 4" stroke and I would have to throw everything else out the window. LOL

Boost will be my cubes. :-)




Last edited by prochargedmopar; 06/27/17 12:26 PM.

"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001
Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL
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01 Town and Country Limited
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02 Mercedes C230K
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Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Prochargedmopar] #2323821
06/19/17 09:04 PM
06/19/17 09:04 PM
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Cab_Burge Offline
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I'm thinking it is a lot easier to narrow the rod big ends than widen the crankshaft rod journals work scope

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/19/17 09:05 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 70's small block durability mods for 700hp [Re: Cab_Burge] #2323838
06/19/17 09:35 PM
06/19/17 09:35 PM
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dogdays Offline
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First of all I have to say, depending on a used stock crank at 700hp is foolish.

Now how's it going to add up? 9.600 block, 3.58 stroke, 6.125 rods means the pistons have to be about 1.685 compression height. You said "Must be 1.123-1.125 length" which I don't understand. 4" bore pistons with a chevy pin size and 1.685 compression distance are not falling out of any trees. They're custom

a 350 chevy with 3.75 stroke and 6.000 rods needs a piston with compression height of 1.12, is that where that number came from?

Anyway, I agree with Cab that trimming the rods' big ends sounds like the right way to go.

The block can use every trick you can give it. Girdle, short fill, etc.

Good Luck!
R.

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