Who's Frank Baldason and how do I reach him? Actually carter AVS was used from the factory but I get your meaning.

ALL 1971 383 Road Runners had HOLLEY carbs when new!

Not according to the factory service manual.

Beware that the Service manual doesn't tell you what came with what. Your broadcast sheet does. Do you have one?

It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that your car came with a Carter.

No broadcast sheet was ever found with my car. The FSM does indicate what engines that came with what transmission was married up to a specific carb. All you have to know is what engine/tranny combo were available with your particular year/make/model and you will know what carburetor belongs on the car for a specific combo. That is on your fender tag. Broadcast sheets are nice to have but you don't need them to find that out. Various sources on the web suggest that 1971 Roadrunners had more Carters in them than Holleys and the exceptions to that rule I've already mentioned in this thread. My car originally came with a Carter AVS because it came standard with a 383 and 727 auto trans. The FSM backs that up. The Air Grabber hood though, is a completely different story.

Can't help you, chum if you don't believe what I'm telling you. Holley R4668 carbs were put on Roadrunners with heated air intakes like I mentioned in a previous post. Mine never came with that option so I got the Carter AVS. Typical numbers found on broadcast sheets are fine for statistical purposes but they do not describe the rules for putting which carb on which car. FSM does.

according to the famous little white book written by the original "GURU" to whom you all worship the gentleman seems to be correct about his carburetor #6125 and its listed in the 1971 parts manual. huh? fancy that.

Can't help you, chum if you don't believe what I'm telling you. Holley R4668 carbs were put on Roadrunners with heated air intakes like I mentioned in a previous post. Mine never came with that option so I got the Carter AVS. Typical numbers found on broadcast sheets are fine for statistical purposes but they do not describe the rules for putting which carb on which car. FSM does.

OK let's see if this makes sense to you.

The FSM is a service manual. It's where you go to find out how to repair something or what the specs or settings are for something. It does not tell you what goes on what. For that they have a Parts Manual.



If you go to the parts manual. It's section 14-30-0. It shows that the Carter is only used on C Bodies. So yes there is a 383 AT Carter in 71 but it was never used in your application. It was used in the 330HP C body application.

My carb is listed in the link that you provided for the whole world to see now. Thanks for providing the proof, Bud. It's listed in model P,D,C (Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler,) and Reference No. 114 and service carb # 3512844. If you open your eyes, you will see it. If not, I'll scan my chassis service manual when I get home later tonight that tells you why that carb is correct for my car.

The letters listed are for the car line and not just the model as is explained in your very own parts manual. P is Plymouth D is Dodge and C is Chrysler. This means all 383 4 barrel cars under that car line are subject to reference No.114. Now if only someone can decipher reference note 114 we would have the answer. Yes, I know that there is a reference to 2 Holley equipped Roadrunners up above with and without fresh air. Those are not mine because they have different reference numbers. If no one can answer that question about reference 114, I'll scan my chassis manual under the section about Carter AVS and Holley 4193A where it explains why certain cars came with Holleys and others with Carters.

These are the only 2 pieces of general information that you need to know to understand which 1971 Plymouth, Chrysler and Imperial that had 383 engines had which carburetors. It applies to all models across the board. Mine had the Carter AVS 6125S. I'm not the one asking for help with this. I never did. I'm the one who is trying to help you.

So When I see my friend with the 1971 Hemi Roadrunner, I'll be sure to mention that he should chuck his twin Carter AFBs in the garbage and replace them with Holleys just like you and the other misinformed individuals are suggesting right? No problem. Both the parts manual and the chassis manual are excellent resources of information. It takes no skill to read a chassis manual but certain training to read a parts manual. I am guessing that you simply don't have that training.

I thought we were discussing 383 4 barrels and whether they had a Carter AVS or a Holley.

Sorry I and others tried to educate you. Won't happen again .

72, I know you're trying to help. I recognize that. But you and others are making the same mistake because carburetors were not chosen for specific models. They were chosen for specific engine and transmission combinations. Look at other sources on the web like:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=55

They list my 383 with automatic transmission correctly as having a 4bbl Carter AVS. Even lists the correct number for the AVS. This is correct. If you are dead set on using a parts manual, which is ok but shouldn't be used by itself, go back to the previous posts by Morty et al.. and refer back to the P,C, and D car line. That's the criteria on which my carb was chosen. All Plymouth all Dodge and all Chrysler lines with no conditions which would alter the selection to have a Holley based on heated air or fresh air. If you go to that line, it mentions that the standard 4 bbl carb used was a Carter AVS under reference 114. That's my carb!!

At the very least, look around the web at various sites, you'll end up seeing the same thing I'm seeing. After all this stuff we're discussing isn't classified or top secret. It's common knowledge. The problem you and everyone else on here are having is with interpretation.

You don't see a problem with your link not listing one single Holley four barrel for 1971?

Really?1? Are you kidding me? Are your eyes open bud, or have you missed another bus? You don't see the reference for 6125 c-4-AVS for 383 A/T and no other 4 BBL carb including anything from Holley?

Yet Holley 4 barrels are in the FSM that YOU quoted! Yes, Holleys came with heated air and Fresh Air. Imagine that. And I provided proof of it too.

Yet they are listed in the Factory Parts Manual. Explained.

Yet they are listed on Broadcast sheets. Why? Is it because a certain percentage of those collected had fresh air or heated air intake? What about those that didn't?

Wow.

I know '71 Road Runners are often perceived to be "fat , bloated, pigs",
but this is the first I've seen them confused with a C-body

I know '71 Road Runners are often perceived to be "fat , bloated, pigs",
but this is the first I've seen them confused with a C-body

Well Dan you know ALL 383s are the same.

They never built a different 383 for an A body vs a B body vs a C body according to LR because he found a incomplete carb list on a website

LOL

Not a mistake here, just the facts, “were chosen for specific engine and transmission combinations” correct, the 335 horse power 383HP used in B & E-bodies in ’70 & 71 came from factory with Holley 4160s. Transmission, N96, non-N96 variants identified by list numbers. The 383 4bbl engine installed into C-bodies had Carter AVS’s, as the factory replacement parts catalogs from the time clearly indicates. The mymopar.com listing you linked does not show any Holley 4-barrel carbs for ’70-71 383 HPs, that is simply not accurate. I suggest you look at other sources for more accurate info that should include the already referenced factory documents/manuals for correct info. The use of Holley 4160s on this ’71 b-body 383HP application has been well documented over the years, a simple search on this forum alone will result with numerus past discussions on this topic, dating back years.
As for the carline codes, fact is, P, D, C, &Y carline codes all refer to c-bodies only period. Not only have I owned and dealer serviced these cars dating back to when they were new, also did a stint in various parts departments selling replacement parts at dealers, trained and paid to correctly interpret the factory parts catalogs. Your repeated interpretation of these codes is flat out wrong.
Wing nut? Another vote here for AMK Products, closest I’ve found to originally used hardware.

a closed mind can be a very lonely place...
does anyone have a advil??

Instead of an Advil How about a brand new post? One started by me with a question. What if the question is:

is there anyone in the world with a 1971 Roadrunner, 383 with automatic transmission that came factory equipped with a Carter AVS carburator (Any model). If so can you explain, why you think it is original to the car.

if someone responds yes and has a build sheet, which I don't. Would that do it? Something tells me you people still wouldn't believe it.

i really want to believe you but
if you go back to my last post on this thread
i asked a very simple easy peasy question that i got immediately from reading your link
that you provided that you say proves your claim.

my question was ignored
it might give you a clue towards the correct answer

and why i said i want to believe you
is my mind is wide open as i'm far from any expert
but so far all you have provided is opinion..

yes, it's all opinion. except for the links and websites that I've referred to and oh yes, the 2 pics of the factory service manual. Those aren't my opinion.

Those books are junk....

Do you need another thread to convince you....??

You have a non original AG set up...so who cares...am sure car is awesome... but NOT original...

What kills me is Air Grabber is not correct...and you worried about a wing nut...

“Heated air intake” was never an option in ’71, standard on all engines with one exception, when ordered with the optional “Fresh Air, N96, Air Grabber”. You had one or the other. The driver’s side exhaust manifolds were the same, with mounting points cast for the heat stove. Stove, and all components relating to heated air, was omitted when ordered with N96. Dual snorkel air cleaner, with heated air provisions, on the ’71 383HP, again with only one exception-N96.

What were they doing in 1970 with all the 383 Roadrunners......we're they putting nothing but Holleys in them or does it go by either SPD or engine/tranny combo?

The Air Grabber/ N 96 will not be on the VIN tag or door decal, only two places will show it, the fender tag, and the broadcast sheet.

since you asked ALL 1970 383 Road Runners have HOLLEY carburetors! but since the much simplified '71 383HP 4bbl vs 383 4bbl is causing & headaches - the '70 list will blow your mind

1970

383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4217-A ---------- part number 3418 537 on b'cast 37
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 084 with A/C & 087
---------- Holley R4367-A ---------- part number 3418 536 on b'cast 36
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4736-1A ---------- part number 3512 964 on b'cast 64
383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4738-1A ---------- part number 3512 974 on b'cast 74

383 automatic - E, C & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4736S ---------- part number 3418 538 on b'cast 38
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4732S ---------- part number 3418 540 on b'cast 40
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with ECS (N95)
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4734S ---------- part number 3418 541 on b'cast 41

383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4368-A ---------- part number 3418 542 on b'cast 42
383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4737-1A ---------- part number 3512 965 on b'cast 65
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ---------- part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43
383 automatic - E & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 089
---------- Holley R4369-A ---------- part number 3418 562 on b'cast 62
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4739-1A ---------- part number 3512 975 on b'cast 75

I was thinking some more about what 2 other posters suggested about the heated air intake option on '71 Roadrunners. How would I know if I had heated air in order to be deserving of an exalted Holley carburetor? Would the manifolds be different in any way?

If I didn't have the heated air option, would the air cleaner be 1 or 2 snorkel and not have a drop tube to the stove? and would the manifold omit the mounts for the hot air stove?

By the way as someone already stated none of the repop wing nuts are correct. If you want an original correct wing nut for your incorrect carb you gotta get one from a real original car.

(says one of the original "beat the dead horse until it is gone" posters of the infamous "wing nut" thread here on Moparts)

I still have several original 6 pak/6bbl wing nuts including a date coded restored set of carbs for a 69 1/2 4 speed car.

Give it up. You are supposed to have a Holley. Just for ghits and siggles, what is the date code and part number on your "original" carter.

i'm happy that you still have your original 6 pak/6bbl wing nuts with your vintage carbs. You must be very proud. I'd be perfectly willing to give you the date codes of the 2 Carter AVSs that I had but no longer do because they were sold off at least 15 years ago and yes, i do recognize that, had I kept them, there would not have been such an animated discussion here on Moparts dot com because the answer would be on those dates.

11 pages... and no original carb...no original AG set up...and no original wing nut...

OMG.... so much time I will never get back... LOL

My 70 B-Body is Holley equipped - does that help ?

My 70 B-Body is Holley equipped - does that help ?

Those carbs would have most likely would have had 70/71 dates. All it would have proved is that they were made back then for what ever Lo-Performance C Body 383 they went on.

So why don't we put this thing to rest?

Ever take a statistics class?

The possibilities of dates on those 2 carbs would have been early, right on, late, or built several years after 1971. All means nothing because they never put a 6125 AVS on a RR. But there were C-body 383 4 bbl cars built the same day your car was and the carb date would be right.

You see how it all goes full circle?

It's not on the fender tag cause the car didn't come with it.

when i decided to add air grabber on to my 71
i wanted it to be all original from the intake up
and i bought a 6193 holley to start
whats funny is i have collected every last part
execpt for the carb stud and wingnut