After having had a couple of hydraulic valve lifters collapse in our 512 ci, six pack, E Body due to internal failures of oil control discs for yet not certain reasons, I am doing an analysis of my entire valve train. CC hydraulic roller, Eddy heads, Scorpion lifters(soon to be Crower or Morel/Howard), Harland Sharp 1.5 rockers, 1.88 spring height CC beehives, originally at 155 pounds at seat(measured with an on car LSM 100 SCM pressure tester), but now at 120 to 130 pounds,,,highly suspect as again heads on engine measuring tool.

I have posted entire lengthy postmortem and received much very helpful information from Dwayne Porter among others on the Question and Answer section of our forum. Thank you to all who pitched in,,,this whole area is far above my pay grade but It has been a real pleasure to have learned as much as I have in an area where even angels might fear to tread.

I plan to obtain an LSM sm-600 bench pressure tester and a SC-320 bench pressure tester so as I can more accurately determine spring tensions and be able to calibrate and determine accuracy of the head on engine tool. With the idea to shim if indicated valve springs back to original recommended pressures.

http://www.lsmproducts.com/lsm_products

I already have a couple of their tools. Appear of very high made in USA quality.

My question(s) is/are this.

There are several ways to remove valve springs from the engine while heads are on and not have a valve fall into a cylinder,,,of course a complete disaster,,,particularly if one had to pull the engine to remove a head with headers and all as a contributing factor.


*. Use air pressure. Downsides. Cannot get fitting and its air hose on 2 or 3 of engine's cylinders. If air pressure fails, valve could drop into cylinder. Air pressure wants to push piston down turning engine over,,,yes if transmission(4 speed,,,do not know what an automatic would do) is in gear, no problem except have to remember to do after each cylinder is completed.

Where should piston be for this,,,top center to catch valve if air pressure should fail?

Any other thoughts on this method.

*. I do have 1/2 inch rope. Where should piston be for this method to ensure valve cannot fall into cylinder? How much rope in cylinder? Downsides? Pro/cons?

*. Bring each piston to TDC to hold valve in place. Can I still get spring, retainer and keeper back on. How to do this if valve has slipped down a bit. If both lifters, exhaust and intake are on cam heel,,,will I be at TDC or close enough for a margin of safety and still allow remount of spring and keepers.

*. Any other favorite methods.

I am aware that shimming of springs to regain pressure specs will change install spring height by the amount of the shim(s). Is there any downsides to this beyond the specter of coil bind(which I will monitor for on bench pressure tester)? Is this practice acceptable, these beehives have only some 3 or 4 thousand fairly easy miles on them.

Although I am fairly well informed in automobiles and mechanics in general, this is an area where I plead complete rookie status. Hopefully I can get some guidance from some of the expertise that I have observed on this particular section of our forum. I suspect that there are others too who might and will.

Any further thoughts that I had not considered, please chime in.

A couple of photos of autopsies of collapsed lifters below. The little spring in the photo, I found just pinched between the valve spring seat and the edge of the aluminum head itself. I fished it out with a magnet. I suspect it belongs to a hydraulic valve lifter. How it got there or where it came from I have no idea. I cannot disassemble these hydraulic rollers because the "link bar" has a rivet that blocks the inner cylinder removal from the lifter housing itself. I can only remove the pushrod seat and the failed oil control disc.

Any thoughts on what this might be and how it got there!

I use the rope method. I remove the rocker arms so both valves are closed. I have a 2 foot long rope. I push in about 1/2 of it, if it doesn't go in turn the crank counterclock wise until it does than turn clockwise until it stops. I use this shaft mount compressor http://www.manciniracing.com/ben2pivaspto.html and remove the valve springs. I like this method because I don't have an air hose hanging over the fender, and there is no way the valves could fall in the cylinder.

Same here, but I use 5/16" rope. Just twist it in so it covers most of the piston, then rotate the crank to push the rope to the top to hold the valves in place.

I would be jumping all over CC to get them replace free and compensation for having to fix the problems due to inferior parts failing
I have the Mopar brand on head valve spring removal kits for both the LA and wedge motors, they both work well
I had used the Lisle brand single screw onto one valve spring at a time tool before buying the Mopar kit, once I used that kit I put the other ones away
I have different size valve seal O rings that are for GM motor that I use to hold valves in place when I'm setting up the valve springs before installing the permanent valve seals

hi, run # 1 piston to tdc. you can remove springs on # 1 and # 6 same time . with out air pressure or rope. after installing said springs, rotate to # 8 , it and #5 are at tdc, change them both. the valves will drop down some onto piston tops. I change my springs, this way. #1& #6, # 8&#5, #4&#7, #3&#2. follow the firing order. can't miss. there is always two pistons at top same time. one is on firing tdc, other is on overlap.

I use the air method. I run the line up from under the car. I like the method because it keeps the valve ALL the way up against its seat, making getting the locks in place easy.

Just make dang sure your air fittings are locked together!

I use the air also.used it at work and home.Just as said make sue your connections are good.Used the rope and it was OK but I like air.I have the compressor that bolts on the head and levers the spring down.Also have the one that grabs the spring and you tighten the screw and it pulls the spring together.Works OK for light sprins.Rocky

Uuuuummm....... It's a Scorpion lifter that failed, not a Comp Cams product.

Air method here.. smack the retainer to free
it up and put the air to it... I use zip ties
to hold the valve and move to the next spring..
get them off and test them.. or if you want you
can do one cyl at a time.. never had a valve drop
into the cyl

Correction:

In first paragraph of original post, I had said valve springs set at 155 pounds at seat and then inferred, pressure was established using LSM spring pressure tester.

155 pounds was set by machine shop who set up the Eddy heads. Subsequent on engine recheck of spring pressure was done using LSM's heads on engine spring tester where it measured 120 to 135 or so pounds.

As these pressures showed substantial reduction of pressure, I wish to calibrate this tool against a bench pressure tester, hence the reason to acqure one. Somewhat expensive but expect future usage for me and friends and being able to do myself.,,,the payback is reasonable.


From responses that have been posted, all three methods have advocates. Perhaps a combination of TDC method in combination with rope and air would give the belts and suspenders insurance and convenience I seek.

On the topic of finding TDC with rocker arms removed and intake off.

Might I assume that if both lifters are sitting on the heel of the cam(by observation at looking at lifter position in their respective holes), can I assume that piston is at or near TDC? If not close, then how to best achieve TDC! Perhaps with a long tie wrap or soda straw inserted into spark plug hole and watching as piston comes up, pushing it out of the hole?

If so and valve spring is removed, valve could/would fall into cylinder until it is stopped by piston, if no rope or air pressure?

How then would one raise valve back up and keep it there sufficient to install spring, retainer and keeper.

One thought would be Cal's approach to hold valve in place with an "O" ring. How then would you remove it once keepers are on? Snag it with a dental pick to break it, and then blow it away with a blast of air?

Keep those ideas coming. Also on if good idea to shim springs to regain proper pressures and exactly how that affects recommended install spring heights for better or worse. Beyond spring bind implications.

I use a clean 3/8" nylon rope. I always tie a knot in one end because I'm paranoid.

I just rely on the air to hold them in place. If you're not immediately replacing the springs, just put a clothespin on the valve stem and then you can remove the air.

This is how i had to do mine on a set of B1s. Bring piston to TDC. Use an ice pick or short skinny screwdriver to hold valves close to seat. Remove springs, clean valve stems and wrap masking tape around valves. Try and keep tape as close as possible to seals. Also if the seals are good they should keep valves from dropping out.

To reinstall just remove tape and push down on ice pick and it will lift valve up far enough to get locks and retainer on. I also put grease where stem meets the seals, it was sticky enough to keep valve from moving as i compressed springs.

I have seen all of the above methods used and all can work. But the rope method is the most reliable and the one with the least number of potential problems. Frankly, if done correctly, it is as close to fool proof as you're going to find.

I wouldn't spend the money on the bench tester. 3-4K miles seems reasonable that the springs would lose a little on the seat. The tester you have is fine and for your reference only. If you test them all with the same tester and get said results, that is your reference point for future checking. Shimming the spring cups is common. With a used head, installed height is probably not going to be perfect and you should concentrate more on not binding the spring. The air method works great as does the rope. I like the air better because the valves pop back up when you smack 'em a little. When you apply the air you can hold the engine with a wrench on the balancer and feel which way it is trying to turn. You can leave your ratchet or breaker bar on the engine and rest it on whichever frame rail will stop the engine from turning. It's a pretty common practice to run mech. cams on the outer spring only and put the inners on it after break in. I've never heard of anyone letting a valve drop in the cyl. As said before, you can do two cyls. at a time. If you really want everything perfect, buy the new head gaskets and do them on the bench after your machinist sets all the valve heights again. Sorry about the lifter prob. That sucks!