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Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278295
03/29/17 01:13 PM
03/29/17 01:13 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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So you won't be giving anyone a real world test to go by. I'd bet 99% of people reading about this test will use an out of the box intake if they were to use these heads.

Small heads w/ an expensive great flowing intake versus big heads w/ a crappy flowing intake. I'd like to see how much the bigger heads are worth over the smaller ones w/o having to make an assumption about the difference the intakes make.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278305
03/29/17 01:56 PM
03/29/17 01:56 PM
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Nebraska
70VcodeCoronetRT Offline
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Andy, did you just have Wilson do their Competition porting on your M1? I'm looking at getting a 4150 version done. Thanks

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278310
03/29/17 02:10 PM
03/29/17 02:10 PM
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W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
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Apples to oranges IMO. Realistically all you are doing is testing two engine combinations, no compairisons.

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: justinp61] #2278312
03/29/17 02:13 PM
03/29/17 02:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Originally Posted By justinp61
Apples to oranges IMO. Realistically all you are doing is testing two engine combinations, no compairisons.

iagree


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278323
03/29/17 02:26 PM
03/29/17 02:26 PM
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northern,Ohio,USA
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Clanton Offline
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Do you have oil restriction on the head in any way?Rocker oiling?


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2278337
03/29/17 02:41 PM
03/29/17 02:41 PM
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KOS Offline
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Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
So you won't be giving anyone a real world test to go by. I'd bet 99% of people reading about this test will use an out of the box intake if they were to use these heads.

Small heads w/ an expensive great flowing intake versus big heads w/ a crappy flowing intake. I'd like to see how much the bigger heads are worth over the smaller ones w/o having to make an assumption about the difference the intakes make.


100% correct....whether its down on power or not your going to give it a fair comparison.the only way to do it is same manifold on both.

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278365
03/29/17 03:38 PM
03/29/17 03:38 PM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Online content
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Why not look at how each head works compared to the other, running the intake that most people would run for that port size? It doesn't make sense to me to do it any other way. The one thing I would do would be a port match, so each head/manifold COMBO is getting a fair shake on the dyno, and would be very representative of the way each head will be used.

Last edited by gregsdart; 03/29/17 03:40 PM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278372
03/29/17 03:47 PM
03/29/17 03:47 PM
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Texas
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RustyM Offline
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I have to wonder what the costs are in having intakes for both heads models and those port matched for each, not to mention dyno time.

I too was hoping for direct comparisons but, it does seem costly.

Just my thoughts.

Perhaps the best comparison at this point would be the trick flow Intake with the same Carb / spacer set up he used on the 240 engine.
We know the difference the dry dump/ compression made, thus we can extrapolate from that point- perhaps?

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278375
03/29/17 03:53 PM
03/29/17 03:53 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By BradH
popcorn

Also, what are the dimensions of those dyno headers? scope


2 x 32 with 3.5 collectors made by old Jere himself back around 2000 or so. They have held up well over the years. They were super expensive back then but I suppose it has been a good value over the years.

drool

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: RustyM] #2278381
03/29/17 04:01 PM
03/29/17 04:01 PM
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Posts: 13,315
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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I bet you could buy 2 new Trick Flow manifolds for less than just the port work on that one MP manifold from Wilson cost.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278383
03/29/17 04:04 PM
03/29/17 04:04 PM
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Texas
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RustyM Offline
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I'm sure we could by two.
I think the Wilson was to " see what's possible ".
What's possible was pretty cool.

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: 70VcodeCoronetRT] #2278385
03/29/17 04:05 PM
03/29/17 04:05 PM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted By 4406forPOWER
Andy, did you just have Wilson do their Competition porting on your M1? I'm looking at getting a 4150 version done. Thanks


Yes it was the competition porting package. They added a lot of weld material on the outside of the runners in order to open them up to where they needed to be for a 470 inch engine.

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: RustyM] #2278390
03/29/17 04:12 PM
03/29/17 04:12 PM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Originally Posted By RustyM
I have to wonder what the costs are in having intakes for both heads models and those port matched for each, not to mention dyno time.

I'll take a w.a.g. at about $1500 for what you described, including some (not all) of the dyno expenses.

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278393
03/29/17 04:17 PM
03/29/17 04:17 PM
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Texas
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Yep- multiply that by several model intakes,,,,,,,,

Oh for endless budgets!

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278410
03/29/17 05:11 PM
03/29/17 05:11 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Andy ,Not wanting to hijack,but what is wrong with the Indy 400-3,400-2 ?

Thanks Charlie


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: CSK] #2278476
03/29/17 07:19 PM
03/29/17 07:19 PM
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SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline
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We'll have our 270 heads soon...hope we don't go outside the usable rpm range of the hyd. roller cam with them.

Andy are you going to try the edelbrock Victor MW intake on the 270 heads?


Brian Hafliger
Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: Brian Hafliger] #2278504
03/29/17 08:48 PM
03/29/17 08:48 PM
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Oregon
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Originally Posted By ou812
We'll have our 270 heads soon...hope we don't go outside the usable rpm range of the hyd. roller cam with them.

Andy are you going to try the edelbrock Victor MW intake on the 270 heads?


I'm on a low deck so my Wilson prepped Super Victor will not fit. If that intake would fit then it is the one I'd use. (although the ports in that intake are larger than the small window ports that TF put in the 270 head)

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278505
03/29/17 08:49 PM
03/29/17 08:49 PM
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Got the engine stripped down to the short block this morning and put back together before lunch with the 270 heads. We'll fire it up in the morning.

DSC_0435 (Large).JPGDSC_0487 (Large).JPG
Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: CSK] #2278507
03/29/17 08:55 PM
03/29/17 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted By csk
Andy ,Not wanting to hijack,but what is wrong with the Indy 400-3,400-2 ?

Thanks Charlie


Just depends on your point of view. The average bracket guy can bolt it on and run just fine but if you're trying to squeeze power out of an engine they leave a lot to be desired. The port size is small, the plenum is poorly cast, etc. If you ever have the chance to compare an Indy intake casting next to a Trick Flow casting you'll see that Indy doesn't really put much effort into their pattern making. The plenum on my 440-3 is really sloppy. The cloverleaf pattern is uneven and the casting quality is kind of poor. On a high horsepower engine that uneven pattern is going to mess up the fuel distribution between cylinders. If you compare a raw Indy casting to an intake that Wilson has prepped you'll see a world of difference.

Re: 470 dry sump engine on the dyno [Re: AndyF] #2278525
03/29/17 09:33 PM
03/29/17 09:33 PM
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Pattison Texas
CSK Offline
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Originally Posted By AndyF
Originally Posted By csk
Andy ,Not wanting to hijack,but what is wrong with the Indy 400-3,400-2 ?

Thanks Charlie


Just depends on your point of view. The average bracket guy can bolt it on and run just fine but if you're trying to squeeze power out of an engine they leave a lot to be desired. The port size is small, the plenum is poorly cast, etc. If you ever have the chance to compare an Indy intake casting next to a Trick Flow casting you'll see that Indy doesn't really put much effort into their pattern making. The plenum on my 440-3 is really sloppy. The cloverleaf pattern is uneven and the casting quality is kind of poor. On a high horsepower engine that uneven pattern is going to mess up the fuel distribution between cylinders. If you compare a raw Indy casting to an intake that Wilson has prepped you'll see a world of difference.


Thanks Andy, not much choice on the low deck max wedge, when I got mine had to open up the ports to MW, & clean up the plenum, but mine is mostly a street car. Thanks again.


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

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