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#2263389 - 03/04/17 04:39 PM 383 Distributor Confusion
njmopar Offline
super stock

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 899
Loc: Clinton, NJ
Sometimes I feel like I am going 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

Tried to put in what I thought was the correct distributor for my 383, that I bought a long time (15 years) ago, based on the number on the housing. Should be 2875358. But when I put in the motor it wont go in all the way. Oil pump shaft is seated down, btw.

Searched and found this previous link: http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1904196/re-distributor-shaft-lengths.html
When they say "Measured from mounting surface to end of distributor shaft." this means the flange/base that seats in the block top surface? Thats what I thought.

I dug out an old 440 RB distributor I had laying around and sure looks the same to me. So I guess I have a rebuilt that someone put a 440 shaft in? Well that sucks. Guess I got to find a 383 donor and swap.


Attachments
IMG_0413.JPG

Description: "correct" 383 dist

IMG_0414.JPG

Description: "correct" number

IMG_0416.JPG

Description: 440 dist



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#2263900 - 03/05/17 05:05 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
njmopar Offline
super stock

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 899
Loc: Clinton, NJ
And to add to my confusion.
For the 1968 parts book, the distributor should be 2875358, which I believe is a single point Chrysler unit (not Prestolite).
For 2875358, the correct vacuum control should be 2875096.
Attached is a FSM photo of Chrysler and Presolite parts breakout. My 2875358 looks like the one on the left (Chrysler) but 2875096 vacuum control looks like the one on the right (Prestolite).

So is the FSM wrong or parts book wrong?


Attachments
IMG_0418.JPG

Description: FSM page

IMG_0419.JPG

Description: 2875096



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#2264456 - 03/06/17 04:04 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
PurpleBeeper Offline
mopar

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 575
Loc: Chicago
I'm no part number guru, but I've been down the same road as you and you've almost for sure got a 413/426 wedge/440 distributor. Those are about 1" longer than the 361/383/400 distributors and look otherwise identical.

You have another option though. Years ago I switched to electronic ignition and I had a 383 in the car at the time. I knew I was going to drop a 440 in it (motor 1/2 built). I found a Direct Connection adapter to make the 440 distributor work in my 383. It was an aluminum spacer about 1" thick that fit directly under the distributor and above the block. It also came with a longer distributor hold-down. It fit/worked like a charm. I probably still have it somewhere.
_________________________
70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"

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#2264457 - 03/06/17 04:07 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
PurpleBeeper Offline
mopar

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 575
Loc: Chicago
I'm no part number guru, but I've been down the same road as you and you've almost for sure got a 413/426 wedge/440 distributor. Those are about 1" longer than the 361/383/400 distributors and look otherwise identical.

You have another option though. Years ago I switched to electronic ignition and I had a 383 in the car at the time. I knew I was going to drop a 440 in it (motor 1/2 built). I found a Direct Connection adapter to make the 440 distributor work in my 383. It was an aluminum spacer about 1" thick that fit directly under the distributor and above the block. It also came with a longer distributor hold-down. It fit/worked like a charm. I probably still have it somewhere.

Hey, I found it at Mancini for $65
http://www.manciniracing.com/rbtobbldiad.html
_________________________
70 Roadrunner convt. street car 440+6, NOS, 4-spd, SS springs '96 Mustang GT convt. street car '04 4.6 SOHC, NOS, auto, lowered "Officer, that button is for short on-ramps"

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#2264511 - 03/06/17 05:54 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
62maxwgn Offline
master

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 8415
Loc: Central,PA
Originally Posted By njmopar
And to add to my confusion.
For the 1968 parts book, the distributor should be 2875358, which I believe is a single point Chrysler unit (not Prestolite).
For 2875358, the correct vacuum control should be 2875096.
Attached is a FSM photo of Chrysler and Presolite parts breakout. My 2875358 looks like the one on the left (Chrysler) but 2875096 vacuum control looks like the one on the right (Prestolite).

So is the FSM wrong or parts book wrong?



The Chrysler vacuum advance is as shown with the tang to fit the slot on the cap and a pressed pin on the arm for the breaker plate,the Prestolite has no tang for the cap and a hole in the end of arm for the pin located on the breaker plate.The design of the advance changed in 1970 but the configuration is the same.

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#2264634 - 03/06/17 09:12 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: 62maxwgn]
njmopar Offline
super stock

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 899
Loc: Clinton, NJ
Ah ha, so now it makes sense, thanks! At least one thing went right.

I thought I found the correct shaft NOS from Brad's but his site was wrong. Knew that sounded too easy to be true.

I guess I will go with some other 383 shaft and wing it on the springs. Unless I can find a kit to match the correct springs. Anyone know of a source for finding sprjnfs by application?

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#2269000 - 03/13/17 09:21 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
njmopar Offline
super stock

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 899
Loc: Clinton, NJ
This annoyance doesnt stop. So I was able to find an NOS shaft about as close as possible to mine. This is for the 383 manual trans A-body distributor versus my auto. Short of an exact match, probably as good as it gets. I am smiling.
I get the box today and open it up, NOS box, sealed tight with original staples, never opened, wrapped in wax paper, feeling good. Size up the shaft and it is perfect length. Then I look and dont see the hole for the roll pin. NOS shafts dont come with this hole??
Yes, I can drill it, but man, this is not getting any easier. Drilling on a round hardened shaft is gonna be tough. I have a drill press, but need to come up with a way to ensure this thing does not move. I guess clamping it on some wood could work.

Interesting note. The 383 shaft has a different arrangement of the advance weight holes then I recall seeing. They are on an angle, unlike the 440 shaft I have and other distributors have. Weights also dont throw out as much before the springs kick in.


Attachments
IMG_0446.JPG

Description: side by side

IMG_0447.JPG

Description: slanted advance holes



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#2271131 - 03/17/17 11:24 AM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
JohnRR Offline
I Win

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 73477
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted By njmopar
This annoyance doesnt stop. So I was able to find an NOS shaft about as close as possible to mine. This is for the 383 manual trans A-body distributor versus my auto. Short of an exact match, probably as good as it gets. I am smiling.
I get the box today and open it up, NOS box, sealed tight with original staples, never opened, wrapped in wax paper, feeling good. Size up the shaft and it is perfect length. Then I look and dont see the hole for the roll pin. NOS shafts dont come with this hole??
Yes, I can drill it, but man, this is not getting any easier. Drilling on a round hardened shaft is gonna be tough. I have a drill press, but need to come up with a way to ensure this thing does not move. I guess clamping it on some wood could work.

Interesting note. The 383 shaft has a different arrangement of the advance weight holes then I recall seeing. They are on an angle, unlike the 440 shaft I have and other distributors have. Weights also dont throw out as much before the springs kick in.


Good luck with that , 69 383 manual trans A body used a PRESTOLITE distributor, that is why you see a difference. Also note the numbers on the points caam, the one on the left has 24 degrees mechanical advance, the right has 31 ... multiply the stamped number by 2.

I have a bunch distrbutor parts, I might have that shaft NOS ???


Edited by JohnRR (03/20/17 09:56 AM)
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#2271193 - 03/17/17 01:07 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
Mattax Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 982
Loc: Phila. Pa.
That really big angle causes the advance to be more for a given increase in rpm. The '68 Auto and Manual have very similar advance rates, so that something else that doesn't seem right (edit: or I should say different) about the NOS shaft assembly. I think its for something that needs a quick advance all the way to the top. Also taking a closer look at the primary springs in the photo the one is heavier and less coils, so the start would be at a higher rpm.

Graphed the two advance curves. The primary springs were probably the same, the automatic had a secondary spring with a little shorter loop and/or the adjustment tab was a little further out compared to the manual.

Installed on their respective engines at the spec base timing ( 0 for manual, 5 BTDC for auto) they provide very similar mechanical advance curve.



Attachments
1968-383-4bbl-distr-adv.jpg

Description: '68 383 4bbl Distributor Advance (mechanical)




Edited by Mattax (03/17/17 06:09 PM)

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#2271255 - 03/17/17 03:20 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: Mattax]
6PakBee Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5551
Loc: North Dakota
If you have a machinist's vise drilling that hole is not a problem. It's been a while since I did one but I can't recall having a problem drilling. The problem is putting the nylon retainer on and drilling it AND the shaft in one pass so the holes all line up. As I recall the procedure is in the FSM.
_________________________
Wife says too many cars, liquidation coming soon......

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#2271392 - 03/17/17 07:33 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: JohnRR]
njmopar Offline
super stock

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 899
Loc: Clinton, NJ
Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By njmopar
This annoyance doesnt stop. So I was able to find an NOS shaft about as close as possible to mine. This is for the 383 manual trans A-body distributor versus my auto. Short of an exact match, probably as good as it gets. I am smiling.
I get the box today and open it up, NOS box, sealed tight with original staples, never opened, wrapped in wax paper, feeling good. Size up the shaft and it is perfect length. Then I look and dont see the hole for the roll pin. NOS shafts dont come with this hole??
Yes, I can drill it, but man, this is not getting any easier. Drilling on a round hardened shaft is gonna be tough. I have a drill press, but need to come up with a way to ensure this thing does not move. I guess clamping it on some wood could work.

Interesting note. The 383 shaft has a different arrangement of the advance weight holes then I recall seeing. They are on an angle, unlike the 440 shaft I have and other distributors have. Weights also dont throw out as much before the springs kick in.


Good luck with that , 383 manual trans A body used a PRESTOLITE distributor, that is why you see a difference. Also not the numbers , the one on the left has 24 degrees mechanical advance , the right has 31 ... multiply the stamped number by 2.

I have a bunch distrbutor parts, I might have that shaft NOS ???

If you can find a NOS shaft 2875 175 in your stash, this may help me understand what is going on and keep my mental state solid.

The 68 FSM (attached) says both the manual and auto are Chrysler built. Also, take a look at the advance spec stated for at the distributor (which would be the number on the shaft?), the 15.5 for mine would be below the upper spec for 2500 RPM.
The 68 parts book show the same part numbers for both manual and auto distributors for the cap, rotor, points. Just the shaft and weight sets are different. Prestolite would be a dual point and different internals, I would think.
Are the FSM and Parts book wrong?


Attachments
IMG_0452.JPG

Description: 68 FSM

IMG_0453.JPG

Description: 68 parts book

IMG_0450.JPG

Description: parts book man trans

IMG_0451.JPG

Description: parts book auto trans



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#2271409 - 03/17/17 07:59 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
6PakBee Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5551
Loc: North Dakota
So now I'm confused. You say your correct distributor number is 2875358. You have one with that PN stamped on it. The correct vacuum advance as per the parts book is 2875096. You have one with that PN stamped on it but it doesn't look like the illustration in the parts book. Does that about sum it up?

If so, I would assemble the distributor and use it. The stamped part numbers all agree with the parts book numerical listing and there is no reason I can see not to believe them. The illustrations in the parts books in the past with other components have been inaccurate, this may just be another case of that.
_________________________
Wife says too many cars, liquidation coming soon......

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#2271465 - 03/17/17 09:37 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
Mattax Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 982
Loc: Phila. Pa.
6PakBee- The problem is that the shaft in the one he has is too long. So he's trying to find the correct shaft or a correct example to compare with.

NJmopar - Did you notice the FSM part number and the Parts Book stamped numbers don't match?
2875xxx vs.
2857xxx
Since all the part book numbers indicated distributors are stamped 2875 xxx, I would guess that is correct. Yes - I checked '69 Dodge FSM and its 2875. I'm going to guess the vac advance you have is correct if it fits even though it is the design shown with the prestolite.

The weights are the same, p/n 1881 955
I think the only difference between auto and manual versions will be the governers (cam & stop plate in parts diagram) in the package with the shaft assy.
Cam and stop plate: auto 2642 848, manual 2875 380.
the springs package: auto gets 3004 169, manual 2932 707.



Edited by Mattax (03/17/17 10:30 PM)

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#2271499 - 03/17/17 10:37 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: Mattax]
njmopar Offline
super stock

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 899
Loc: Clinton, NJ
Originally Posted By Mattax
6PakBee- The problem is that the shaft in the one he has is too long. So he's trying to find the correct shaft or a correct example to compare with.

NJmopar - Did you notice the FSM part number and the Parts Book stamped numbers don't match?
2875xxx vs.
2857xxx
Since all the part book numbers indicated distributors are stamped 2875 xxx, I would guess that is correct. Yes - I checked '69 Dodge FSM and its 2875. I'm going to guess the vac advance you have is correct if it fits even though it is the design shown with the prestolite.

The weights are the same, p/n 1881 955
I think the only difference between auto and manual versions will be the governers (cam & stop plate in parts diagram) in the package with the shaft assy.
Cam and stop plate: auto 2642 848, manual 2875 380.
the springs package: auto gets 3004 169, manual 2932 707.



Funny, in all the times I looked at the pages never noticed the transposed numbers. I guess the FSM editor didn't either.

I will be away for a little while so if anyone has a NOS dist or shaft please take a look at the weight slots, as I am really curious on why these are slanted. Like to know before I pin the NOS one and find out I am wrong.

And I found more proof the dist I thought was NOS was rebuilt with the wrong shaft. I just noticed the oil hole for the top bushing oiler isn't there. I guess they used newer bushings with no holes.


Edited by njmopar (03/17/17 10:41 PM)

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#2271564 - 03/18/17 01:08 AM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
JohnRR Offline
I Win

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 73477
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Originally Posted By njmopar
Originally Posted By JohnRR
Originally Posted By njmopar
This annoyance doesnt stop. So I was able to find an NOS shaft about as close as possible to mine. This is for the 383 manual trans A-body distributor versus my auto. Short of an exact match, probably as good as it gets. I am smiling.
I get the box today and open it up, NOS box, sealed tight with original staples, never opened, wrapped in wax paper, feeling good. Size up the shaft and it is perfect length. Then I look and dont see the hole for the roll pin. NOS shafts dont come with this hole??
Yes, I can drill it, but man, this is not getting any easier. Drilling on a round hardened shaft is gonna be tough. I have a drill press, but need to come up with a way to ensure this thing does not move. I guess clamping it on some wood could work.

Interesting note. The 383 shaft has a different arrangement of the advance weight holes then I recall seeing. They are on an angle, unlike the 440 shaft I have and other distributors have. Weights also dont throw out as much before the springs kick in.


Good luck with that , 383 manual trans A body used a PRESTOLITE distributor, that is why you see a difference. Also not the numbers , the one on the left has 24 degrees mechanical advance , the right has 31 ... multiply the stamped number by 2.

I have a bunch distrbutor parts, I might have that shaft NOS ???

If you can find a NOS shaft 2875 175 in your stash, this may help me understand what is going on and keep my mental state solid.

The 68 FSM (attached) says both the manual and auto are Chrysler built. Also, take a look at the advance spec stated for at the distributor (which would be the number on the shaft?), the 15.5 for mine would be below the upper spec for 2500 RPM.
The 68 parts book show the same part numbers for both manual and auto distributors for the cap, rotor, points. Just the shaft and weight sets are different. Prestolite would be a dual point and different internals, I would think.
Are the FSM and Parts book wrong?


I made a mistake, the picture you put up made the 383 one you have look like a Prestolite and for some reason I thought you were talking about a 69 A body 383 which has a Presolite , the 68 does not.

One thing you are fixated on here, and causing you some anxiety, is the ILLUSTRATION in the parts MANUAL, it's an ILLUSTRATION, not an actual representation of the production line parts for all models. The vac can you have has the correct part number and it is for the Chrysler distributor. The vac can in the ILLUSTRATION is more prevalent in 69 and later.

Are you building this car to 1000000% factory stock and what are you actually working on, I missed that part ?
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running up my post count some more .

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#2271591 - 03/18/17 05:09 AM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: Mattax]
6PakBee Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5551
Loc: North Dakota
Originally Posted By Mattax
6PakBee- The problem is that the shaft in the one he has is too long. So he's trying to find the correct shaft or a correct example to compare with......


I realized that. What I don't understand is all the angst about a gazillion component PN's. Get a shaft out of a B series Chrysler distributor, see what the appropriate weights and springs are and be done with it.
_________________________
Wife says too many cars, liquidation coming soon......

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#2271655 - 03/18/17 09:09 AM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: JohnRR]
njmopar Offline
super stock

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 899
Loc: Clinton, NJ
I am working on 68 383 GTS convertible. Trying to get as close to original as possible, within reason. For example the dist I have is correct part number on housing but dated 69. I can live with that.
My main concern was the shaft length which has morphed into other points. The vac advance style I only saw on prestolite dist and the FSM had me concerned.
The obsession on the correct shaft with springs was just me trying to match close to stock as possible. Which then peaked my curiosity on the different looking weight slots.

Looks like I have all the pieces, just need to carefully drill the pin hole next.

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#2271753 - 03/18/17 11:30 AM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
Mattax Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 982
Loc: Phila. Pa.
Well it certainly appears that the one you bought has the correct length but the cam plate and weights are special.

IMO it's definately worth asking for pictures of known correct parts. What seems most odd is the weights made of built up steel plates - the part book indicates it should have the same weights as most other distributors. That's what makes it appear to be a special, low production item. And if it is special but for some other application it would suck to go through all the trouble of drilling and installing it when a) it may be valuable to someone else b) you could get a fairly correct advance curve using a shaft from a good used 383 distributor. Since you have a little time, why not see what knowledge and pictures are out there.

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#2271772 - 03/18/17 12:09 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
Mattax Offline
super stock

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 982
Loc: Phila. Pa.
Here's one for sale that has the same p/n as yours. Whether its worth asking them for info/pics or even buying comes down to one of those time/money/risk decisions, everyone is different.
http://bluestarperformance.com/parts/ele...-1968-used.html
They claim the build date code is '67.

Some pictures of built up steel weights apparently from an earlier cast iron distributor for a /6. So I'm probably wrong about it being a special low production number part.
http://www.allpar.com/fix/electrical/distributors.html


Edited by Mattax (03/18/17 12:09 PM)

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#2271849 - 03/18/17 02:49 PM Re: 383 Distributor Confusion [Re: njmopar]
6PakBee Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 5551
Loc: North Dakota
Originally Posted By njmopar
I am working on 68 383 GTS convertible. Trying to get as close to original as possible, within reason. For example the dist I have is correct part number on housing but dated 69. I can live with that.......


I don't know what the '69' signifies but the "2 8" following the part number is the date code. This would be the second week of 1968 which would be correct for a '68 application.
_________________________
Wife says too many cars, liquidation coming soon......

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