Looking to get a new aluminum radiator. Whats a good brand to go with and is it better to have the tanks on top bottom or sides?

Summit/Griffen side tank crossflow............

ok, thanks Dom. I was just looking at a ECP engineered cooling products radiator with top and bottom tanks, lifetime warranty against leaks. Been using a side tanks radiator for the last 10yrs and was thinking I can get more exposed core area with top-bottom tanks. Whats the pros cons of side or top-bottom tanks?

Lots of good radiators out there these days. Summit Radiators were made by Norhtern radiator last I knew?!? Champion seems to have a good reputation and has direct fit for Mopars. IMO side tanks and cross flow works better than a down flow, top tank radiator does.

http://www.prchotrod.com/

Just got one here.... lower hose mounted the way I wanted, trans cooler in tank, cross flow, side wings for mounting.....but forgot to mention petcock.

i use an AFCO , you do have to tig on your own brackets . been in for about 8 years no worries , daily driver and strip use
sideflow are less likely to block up and generally are lower profile .

Tex

I wanted the 1970 mopar radiator look in my car and not the generic GM looking or Scirocco style radiator in my car. SUPERIOR RADIATOR here in Michigan custom made mine to support 1000 streetable horsepower with dual electric fans. I am very happy with it so far.

I bought a champion for my 65 last year.150 shipped from Ebay/Fit was good cools great/i was leary as my OE rad worked great.More than happy with it.Even in the 90s it cools as good or better than factory.only thing had to make new upper hose and use a 1 3/4 adapter to 1 1/2 on lower.That was like 7 bucks.Very happy with it so far.Rocky

Looks like a few options here. So far what i have researched 2 row and make sure both rows are 1" wide. Some are not.

I bought a Howe from Summit and it was a decent price Cross Flow. If I were to buy another, I would look into the dual or triple cross flow, and definitely pick one of those.

I was looking at those early on but was told they plug up easily. I have a howe now but the in and out fittings are wrong for the big block.

The EPC is a nice radiator. As long as you don't care if it fits.


I was told it was bolt in...just check the print. I did and the print show the holes in the correct location to each other. They just don't line up correctly car.


So if you don't mind drilling some holes it's a nice piece. Just pisses me off I had to drill holes. They don't put the core in the correct location.

I just bought a Jeg's house brand 28"wide X 19"tall X 3" thick, 2 row 1" cores for mine, be here tomorrow.134.63 with my racer discount, got to make my own mounts tho.

I will check those out as well.

http://www.smithsradiator.com/mopar/

True Mopar guys that make great 2 core aluminum radiators👍

I want the 2 row Should save me 25 lbs,,,,,,

Those look to be very nice. I am leaning toward a downflow radiator as well. I noticed something a while back with my howe crossflow radiator. I had the cap off radiator and moroso pump running while watching coolant flow. The top 3 rows had no coolant running thru them at all. Coolant level will always be lower while running pump, so wouldnt a downflow make more sense as all the cores would be full all the time.

That's why I suggested the duel or triple cross flow radiators.

The water flow will find its shortest path. With Gravity assistance the Down flow rad will more easily find a shorter path vs a Cross flow rad. Witch means it Wont utilize the full surface area of the rad. So the cross flow will cool better, but the water will find its shortest path. Therefore, a forced duel flow or triple flow will cool better. But, with the proper fan cfm flow assist, any of the above rads will work.

I looked into the double and triple radiators.


I passed on them. I'm not smart enough to get all the science but I know the longer the flow path the less flow. If the tubes are big enough it will cool with out passing through the radiator more than once.

Just saved this for more discussion.

I spoke with a guy that works with radiators for a living. He told me to stay away from those dual cross type radiators. He seen them plug and for what ever reason more often than a single cross or down flow. I like the design and understand the theory behind double cross, but not taking any chances with those. It will be another single cross or down flow for me. what I saw with the last cross flow I had with everything running left 3 top rows exposed to air, no coolant in those tubes means less cooling. what ever fits best will determine what type I get. will take some more measures today. Thanks

Pretty typical from a crossflow radiator. Likely not filled completely filled to begin with. We fill them under a vacuum or run them pump a few times to make sure they are filled. Also check them after first heat cycle. Some of the OE ones can be a real bear to get full...

I have had a smsll Nissan radiator in my Dart for many years however for some reason my new 408 does't like it and it runs hot. I bought a Champion from Summit it fit nice and the car runs much cooler it was a good price around $200

Just another option for you to consider....
I bought one for my road runner and the fit was good. Mine was not the aluminum, and I had to order it.

http://www.usradiator.com/radiators/plymouth.html

Mark

Another vote for Champion I have them in 3 of my cars...

I have a big Griffin radiator in the cuda. Bolted right in and works great, but it was expensive. It's a down flow w/ two rows of 1.25" tubes. The Champion radiators that a guy sells in the classifieds here on the board I hear work good, and they're cheap too.

I fill to bottom of filler neck. been that way since new, had it for about 8-10yrs.

ok, thanks. it looks like a cross flow is in my future. opening in the support is 22.5 wide and 16 tall. I wanted to try something different this time around. I will take a closer look at those champions.

I have to make a correction about the double pass radiators. There are no issues in plugging like I was told earlier. Just spoke with two radiator companies and they both recommend double or triple pass for my app. Tripple pass requires bigger pump like a 55. No off the shelf available. must be custom 1.25" double row double pass. I also have an option of a 1.25" tube double row down flow. I plan on using a mechanical pump and good flex fan with a shroud. I have a fan that moves a ton of air.

Before you buy anything,I would google Stewart water pumps and read the stuff on their site. Then call them and ask them what they think of multiple pass radiators. They are not fond of them.


Cooling is about total flow and cooling area. If you have to make the coolant travel a longer path to cool the radiator is too small.


The EPC is a 2 core with 1 inch cores. With the right water pump and the correct water pump speed that will cool 750 HP easy.

That web page is stewartcomponents.com


A double pass radiator requires 16 times the pressure as a single pass to flow the same amount of coolant IIRC. A triple pass needs 64 TIMES the pressure to get the same flow as a single pass radiator. You need to look it up and read it for yourself.

It made me think differently about cooling than I had before.

My advice is, don't buy into the sales hype of 3 and 4 row radiators. Two rows will cool better. If you need more cooling, get one with 1.25" tubes. And install a sealed fan shroud that covers the entire fin pack!

After that last post i called howe to pick their brain on this. They tell me same thing its takes surface area to cool properly. They say double pass work marginally better but not enough to warrant the cost. They are not big on them. They tell me i need the biggest core that will fit with 2 rows of 1" tube. I may be able to make the opening in the core support wider to take advantage of more core area.

I have an ECP 26" core in my 68 Charger 512ci with AC & I am in South east Texas, in 107 outside temp with AC on car runs 185ish all day long, I had a 4core Champion that did not work so well in the same car.

I read the link to stewart components. Good stuff. At this point i feel like a ping pong ball with which design i need. Double pass will require more than a standard 440 source pump. Im thinking just ordering a jegs cross flow as large as i can fit in my A body. I will check out the ECP again but i think they were $500.

Did you put that 28" with in an A body? Curious to how well it fit. How big are the tanks?

Checked the site out for myself. They definitely need a new fluid dynamics engineer.

To toss out those Two numbers randomly 16 and 64 TIMES is insane. To many variables. If you were trying to pass the Whole Engines water system through a Heater Core, single, dual, triple, pass then it May be closer to the truth.

But the newer rads have a lot more flow capacity. But with that said, Yes, the dual; and triple pass rads will have more flow restriction, but Not Nearly the amount, the Stewarts web site suggests.

But, I will back peddle a little, the standard newer rads if big enough and with the right shrouds and fans are plenty enough to cool a lot of our rides. Lack of shrouds and fan placement is probably the biggest issues of poor cooling.

Dave, my Howe crossflow rad is a 19 x 31 for my A body. Had to trim some excess sheet metal from the driver side frame rail, and make a pocket in the passenger side front portion of the frame rail for it to slide in. So if your up for some miner fabrication you can go bigger on the rad.

I bought the 26 inch ECP for an A body. If you go by the print on their site it should all fit. You know, bolt it.

But, where they put the core relative to the brackets makes it so you have to modify the brackets and I had to drill some holes in the core support, which I didn't want to do. But for the money I decided that I could use the 2 top holes and put 2 small holes in the core support.

For the money you just about can't beat the ECP. I don't trust much of what frank at ECP says about fitment (which is why he will tell you measure everything and compare it to his print) but other than that, it's a nice piece.



All that said, if you don't mind doing some minimal mods to the brackets and core support its probably the best for the money. Also, I'd say use the biggest flowing mechanical water pump you can buy and you should be pooping in the tall cotton.



One last thing...I bitched like crazy because the overflow hose points to the drivers side and not the passenger side. It's is on his drawing like that, but it was the ONE thing I didn't look at close enough. I've personally never seen an OE Chrysler radiator with the over flow pointing to the drivers side. I just put a loop in the hose to the over flow tank.

Is that 19 X 31 a 26 inch core?


I don't run a shroud. The fan is close enough to the radiator to not need one.

between the frame rails it is 29" with the lip removed at the top of the rail, the core is approx 1/2 wider ( 1/4" per side) than the opening, that a is un cut core support opening and it was a origional slant 6 car if that makes a difference in the core support, the one I ordered was 555-52018, the info says Ford but it is Ford/Chrysler and also it has NO trans cooler built in but does have a bung for a drain petcock, I am building upper and lower mounts like I have done for the other one that was in the car I think side mounts could be made also.

The actual core 18.5 x 28 The 31, is to the outside of the cross flow tanks.

And IMO, doesn't matter how close your fan is to the rad, It could benefit from a shroud.

I have a brand new A body/small block ECP radiator with dual fans and controller I'd be willing to sell. No coolant went through it. Didn't work for my particular application (don't ask, nothing to do with the radiator) so I ended up going back to my old rad and modified that instead of cutting up a new one.

I was gonna send it back but never did, just sitting in my garage.

ECP rad.

Fan controller

Thanks for the offer but the hose fittings are in the wrong place. I really would prefer a cross flow after all the info i recieved.

Anyone have a linc to the guy that sells champion radiators on here. Cant find his ad.

I didn't think the champions were cross flow.

If you google champion radiators he comes up. IIRC he's in California.

I just googled it and couldn't find him.

Any thoughts on this one? Will it cool big power without weighing 500lbs?

http://www.eastwood.com/maxx-power-tri-f...UthoaArHP8P8HAQ

There is a Griffin cross flow for sale in the race parts classifieds...

I seen that. I think the fittings are wrong. Outlet needs to be dr side and inlet on pass.

Wish i knew someone who had tried that one.

Sorry if I missed it but what is the application here? Guessing big block A body?

511 filled with victor heads in a 67 barracuda.

I'm alittle afraid of that one all thou I'm not totally afraid of the double pass with 55 gal water pump. I'm currently waiting for a price from champion on a double pass just to see. its just so tempting to get a $150 crossflow, which might be enough.

Here is the one I use - fits perfect works good!

Brand:Griffin Thermal Products
Manufacturer's Part Number:8-00038
Part Type:Radiators
Product Line:Griffin Performance Fit Radiators
Summit Racing Part Number:GRI-8-00038

UPC: 766897316944
Radiator Style: Crossflow
Inlet Location: Upper passenger side
Outlet Location: Lower driver side
Radiator Material: Aluminum
Radiator Finish: Natural
Overall Width (in): 29.500 in.
Overall Height (in): 18.630 in.
Overall Thickness (in): 3.000 in.
Core Width (in): 22.500 in.
Core Height (in): 18.630 in.
Core Thickness (in): 2.680 in.
Row Quantity: 2
Transmission Cooler: No
Inlet Size: 1 1/2 in.
Outlet Size: 1 3/4 in.
Tube Size: 1 1/4 in.

I'm not a big fan of the cross flow and like I said, not a big fan of the multiple pass radiators. Stewart may not have been totally correct with the 16 times more pressure number but I'd bet it's not that far off.

You don't need pressure to cool the engine you need flow. Making the coolant travel further decreases flow. That is always bad.

Just hate to see you spend your money twice.

I'd call some coolant people and see what they say.

Been running the 2-row cross-flow Griffen for at least 14+ years and a Moroso drop in water pump and it cooled good enuff to romp in Vegas during 114+ heat and in the Hesperia Ca desert I live in. My new Moroso w/p makes it harder to come up to temp but that's a good problem to have.............REAL WORLD TESTING..........Not mag read.........

I had a 22" factory radiator in my 70 426 hemi cuda that would creep up in warm weather and traffic and replaced it with a 22" 3 row champion and it stays cool now. Fit was good only had to drill 1 lower hole. Mike

I will take a look at this tomorrow when I have some time. thanks for your info guys. I'm going to give wizard a call tomorrow to see what they have to offer as well. thanks again

I was just looking and measuring the area I have for a radiator. I have a lot of moving stuff around to fit a large cross flow in there. trans cooler and lines will have to be moved. It would be easiest if I could make a down flow work.

Who is wizard?

Down flow will work very well.

If your core support was for a 22 inch radiator you will have to cut it up a bit to get a 26 inch in there. You are always better off with the biggest radiator you can fit in there.

In my 70RR with a built 440, I took the original Mopar OE radiator to a local guy. He ordered a new modine core, and built me a new radiator using my OE top/bottom tanks. Looks OE and works great keeps the 440 kool <200 degrees in the SoCal heat..

Just my $0.02...

I have an ECP in my Demon

Wizard cooling. Good products but a little more expense.

which one do you have and what are you cooling? anyone on here cooling a 500"+ BB in an A body with a mechanical pump and fan?

Be careful. That wizard radiator is the EXACT same radiator as the ECP. EXACTLY the same just more money.

It is the exact same drawing. It even has the overflow going the wrong way just like the ECP.

looking at the pictures I thought the very same thing. I'm gonna call them in a bit here just to pick there brain. A friend of mine has a wizard in a dart with a 440 SB and he cant say enough good about it. hes very happy. It is a 2 row down flow.

Check it out and see what they say. The Wizard is more than double the price for what appears to be the very same thing from EPC.
Your friend may be pissed when and if he finds out he could have paid less than half for the same thing.




FWIW and IIRC there are very few companies actually building aluminum radiators. Most of these guys are buying kits from China and are welding them up. Some even have the balls to say made in USA on the stuff. Some stuff is China made China welded.

Always verify and cross check everything and everyone.

just got off the phone with wizard. They think they can get it done with a 22" core down flow but with 1.25 tube upgrade.

They are probably right about that. It would make it easier to mount if the car has a 22 inch core support rather than try and cut and for a 26 in there.

Bigger tube is always better.

How much is the rad with the upgrade.

From wizard the rad. Is 489 and the 1.25 tube up grade is another 100. Im sure i can do this thru mcp or ecp for under 500 total.

How much??

Close to $600 just for radiator.

Just read a post on forabodys about the griffin and ecp radiators and they had issues with fitment and hose fitting sizes. Either that guy needs a new hobby or he got a f'ed up radiator for his A body. Ecp still has my interest thou.

Get a $200 Howe cross flow and go with a electric fan set up, HHR. For what your doing I wouldn't pay $600 bucs for a rad. JMO.

I have one now and i was not that impressed. Fittings are on wrong sides. For sale with an electric fan. The ecp was 500 with the 1.25 tube up grade.

Fittings on the wrong side?? Well order the correct rad from them with the fittings on the correct side. My tubes are like 1", maybe 1.25" didn't measure them. No upgrades here.

From the looks of the ECP and the Wizard, they look equally cheap as well. No way, I'm paying $600 for any of those. Other posters stated they are exactly the same rad.????

Glad you haven't bought anything yet. Your doing Good by doing your research.

Might be good enough,

yep, I see that' about $100 less than the wizard. The howe is a 2 row maybe 1" rows cross flow. I used it with a 16" electric fan and moroso electric water pump. keep the temp about 195-200* in cool weather. 80*+ and temps would climb. stop and go traffic it would go 220+. I like the idea of the 1.25 tube down flow. learning a lot here, thanks guys

This is the radiator I have in my Demon. 451 stroker

http://www.speedcooling.com/26-Big-Block-Mopar-Radiator.html

That's what I have. It's. To bolt in for sure, but for the money it's pretty nice.

And it pisses me off the overflow hose comes out the wrong direction but it is what it is.

I will have to do some trimming to get that to fit. They recommended there 22" with the 1.25" tube up grade. Think this bigger radiator would be just as good? Its about $300 less.

I'm sure someone can do the math but it's probably close.

I have cooled 550 HP engines on a stock 26 inch radiator in desert heat. That had just 2 half inch cores in it. And, that particular engine had the cast iron water pump (talking small block stuff) which isn't as good as a Milodon water pump.

So I know a two .500 core will easily cool 550 HP if everything else is correct. And that engine had about 1 1/2 inches of filler in it. Whatever just over the top of the core plugs is.

And that is a copper radiator. Most people say aluminum cools better than copper.

I think it would probably be better then the smaller rad. It has a trans cooler as well. My Howe doesn't have that. It sure is Heavy though at 45#, not sure that's not a typo, but it does include a tranny cooler in the tank.

Love the price, I'm sure you can get that to fit. As per my earlier post, I fitted one bigger in size..

yep and maybe I could use the trans cooler as an oil cooler as well?

I need a radiator and read this post. In 2012 a $500+ Griffin radiator was installed in my car. (Before I owned it, I have the receipt). It only has a two-year warranty and it sprung a slow leak a few months ago. Reading the reviews at Summit, it seems several Griffins have leaked after for 5 years.
So I'm going to aim for a Champion, or a EPC.

I would look into Cold Case radiators. The Champion radiators I have seen fit well and seem to work but I'm not a fan of radiators with more than 2 cores.

The ECP radiator I have required some modification to fit. I wasn't thrilled I had to drill holes in my core support but I did it.

The Cold Case radiators are said to be a drop in fit.mi would certainly look into them.

I bought the EPC in a 26". Had to do some trimming to fit my A body, but it keeps my 511 with a tall fill 195* most of the time. Highest temp was 205* in 93* humid weather. I fit it with a shroud from jegs and use a mechanical fan. Works great and would buy again.

ECP for me

That's what I just bought. Pics on my build thread.

This will be my new radiator in the spring. Ever since I put the 4.10 gears in the car it runs hot on the highway with the increased RPM's

Gus