After reading my 25.5 book, I'm a bit confused on the 2A bars. How did you run them utilizing the OEM floor? My frame connectors will not spec as they are 1.5 x 2.5 x .125. So those have to come out.

Also being 45 years old the floor has pin holes here and there which would make it near impossible to weld the floor to the tubes where need be. Any way to get around replacing the whole floor? Otherwise I'm looking at chopping the whole floor out and building all the bars in the floor, which I really don't want to do.

Any help and lots of pics wood be appreciated.

Damnit Now I am gonna have to dig out my book.. lol Mine passed 25.5 stock firewall and floors to the seam behind the front seats.

On a side note, if I would tear the stock floor out and build the whole tube floor and cover it in .040 aluminum would that knock me out of any classes?

I did the 25.3, I cut out the stock floor and fit it back in. Bars now run in an out of it, some run parallel. It was piece back together like a jig saw puzzle, many many pieces. It was a nightmare, I would never do it again

Did you brace anything before you cut all the floor sheet metal out?

A friend just did a 68 Hemi Cuda for S/S, basically a tube chassis with a certain amount (square footage) of floor pan-firewall put back in to retain the "stock" look.

We do it all the time with stock floors, you just have to make it work. X275 and other small tire classes require stock floors, even with a 25.1 or 25.2 cert. You just have to make it work. More work, but not hard to do

Yes, I think where I went wrong is I built it just under where the floor fit, I didn't allow for the floor not being flat. Low spots are under bars, high spots are over, some bars run right through the center. If I had to do it again I would have made the floor structure lower than I did, but some say it's stronger this way.

What size square tube is acceptable for sub frame connectors? Or is 1-5/8 moly okay and build off that?

If the original floor is rusty, now's a good time to fix it. The stock floorpan contributes a great deal to the strength of the unibody. You have to get the bars in correctly, have access to get it welded properly, etc. I have no problem taking it out, replacing it, etc. Rules say stock floor, not original or uncut. Same with the roof. Many cars - 25.x, fast Super Stockers or Comp - have the roof removed to get all the bars in. Easier and a much nicer result in the end. Planning the project before making the first cut is the key here.

While cutting the roof off is an option and have done it that way..........another option is leaving enough room for cage to slide off outriggers and drop down. Can also weld the tops that way and save the body work. We cut the roof off most all Mustangs, because trim panels cover the sail panels and A pillars. Not so on a Duster

Book says 2x2x.065 MS or CM for 2A which could qualify as a sub frame connector.

I can be done!!!!

I cursed a lot! Lol!

Good looking chassis

Thanks

It's a 25.3 chassis 2010 Challenger. There are some bars that are not SFI mandated but I put them in anyway, I keep thinking the requirements will CHANGE.

It was a [censored] to do but I glad its almost finished.

Love to see more of this Challenger!

I would remove your current frame connectors and install 2 x 3 that way the cut in your floor would get larger rather than smaller if you use 1 5/8 tube. Then you just need the rocker bar, the #9 seat tube and the 3) #6 bars in the floor. I have pics of one I did that way if you need help envisioning what I'm saying...

Sorry, but NO WAY would I put 2x3 connectors in a car that was going to be 25.5. Why would you do that?

You need to be more specific. Is it no good cuz YOU don't like it or cuz it's not acceptable, good practice or weights too much?
And don't take this the wrong way I'm in the same boat and was going to post the same question about ms vs cm and best way to build a cage.
So if you have some pictures of cages built and can post them it would help me in my project. A bodies or mustang I don't care just want a visual to help me plan.
Thx Matt

It's easier to fit a 1 5/8" tube then a 2x3" box IMO. Round tube is lighter also, and looks better.

While not built to any 25.X spec, I added a few bars between my rocker bars and sub frame connectors and then trimmed a new floor pan to fit. Took a lot of time to get it right, but can be done.

My guess is that Monte just doesnt care for the appearance of box tube, but 2x2 and 2x3 are both listed as acceptable for subframe connectors in the 25.5 manual

Round tube is structurally more solid than square or rectangle tube. Lighter and the connections to other round tubing is more solid too, heck with how it looks

Nice, That is pretty much how mine turned out, bars running in, out, along with the floor. I should have ordered new, that looks great. I pieced back in the OE floor I took out

Jason Digbys dart doesn't have stock floors. And he runs small tire classes. Am I missing something here?

From my understanding one only needs part of the floor, in your pic the pass side is still there and rear floor behind driver seat is here.

You need to read the rules for the class/classes you want to run in. The leaf spring class at Ducks races that Jason's car runs in doesn't require stock floors.

http://www.racedxp.com/classes-rules/leaf-spring-shootout/

Dennis

A few more

More

Thanks Dennis. I'm trying to weigh the options. My OEM floor is original and pretty rough in some spots. So I'm trying to decide which way to go. Stock floor has to come out regardless, and with that out it'd be a snap to put the floor bars in. I guess I'm gonna have to start searching class rules all over at different classes I may attend.

Yes please post some pics. All information and ideas will help me decide which way I want to go.

And be prepared for rule changes. The car pictured in the pictures above appear to have the cowl removed. Some classes would probably discourage this as it leads to moving the firewall rear-ward which leads to moving the engine location which is probably not legal for some classes.

My car has all of the stock firewall and floors. All the bars run under and thru the floor with no issues.

Because it makes no sense. 25.5 specifies that 2x2 or 2x3 IS acceptable, but you don't HAVE to use it. So either use whats there.......OR if you plan to cut it out and replace it, just use 1 5/8 moly. Everything else is going to be moly apparently in this build, so why would you cut some square out, only to replace with bigger and heavier box tubing, when you COULD use round? Just doesn't make any sense.

Most don't seem to understand the 25.5 spec. It's an "add on" spec more or less. Which means that IF you have a 2x2 or 2x3 rail 8.50 car with a mild steel cage, that you CAN upgrade to a 25.5 7.50 cert. BUT, if you are starting over and plan to use moly anyway, you can go to another cert. I think it's 25.3 for a 7.50 moly cert depending on weight. So the point is....use whats THERE for the 25.5 or if starting over just build it to 25.3 with all moly round tube, like the Challenger hvyweight showed

. It's tough, i agree. I'm going to stick with grudge racing slow cars and test and tune...lol.

Dennis

I agree with going 25.3 if you are not retro fitting to an 8.50 structure, however a 25.3 is good to 6.50

Monte, do you just add in some sheet metal around the tubes and then weld and blend it into the existing sheetmetal? From what I understand anywhere the tubes come thru it has to be welded to the floor correct?

Cutting off the roof makes it a easier

Back to digbys dart...I believe in some classes you can replace the factory floor if its replaced with the same thickness of sheet metal. That's how the rule is stated for your safety gear/fire suit as well.

There are various ways to do it. Put it all under the floor, put it all on top of floor or a combination. If your floor pans are rough and you want to replace as well as keep stock floor, I would do it this way. Cut stock floor out, build cage, buy new factory pans, chop them up and fit around tubing. Yes, it's work, but looks great when finished. You will likely only have bars through floor in rear footwell area anyway. Personally I use a silicon bronze filler when welding sheetmetal to the tubing. Much easier to use as you can use really low heat, flows well and looks great. You can weld paper thin sheetmetal fairly easily with that filler and not burn stuff up.

In reference to Digby's car, most small tire classes require stock floors. You ARE allowed to replace SOME of the floor, but it MUST be with steel and you also must have MOSTLY a stock floor. They will bounce a full sheetmetal floor every time

Removing the floors, building the chassis and sectioning the floors back in using new sheet metal is the best approach IMO. You're not working around the sheet metal trying to get bars fitted and welded and the sheet metal is much easier to make fit the bars than the other way around. Again, planning where and how the floors and bars will fit together beforehand will make it easier, look better and avoid any "oh $#!t" moments.

No way would I consider using box tubing in a 25.x project.

Before I get into all this 100% and start cutting and chopping, I want to make sure I'm reading the book correct. The only way to run 8.50 to 9.99 is to have a 25.x cage correct? Or can I add bars to my current cage to make it cert to 8.50?

The only reason I'm asking is after doing a bunch of measuring and figuring out how much material its gonna take it's gonna be over $1100 in tube, by the couple places in the area I got quotes from. With my other updates, I'm not gonna have enough play money to cover it and I'd hate to start it and not finish it before the 2017 year is over.

Don't take this as an insult or me knocking your combo's potential because idk much about it. I really think you would be perfectly fine with an 8.50 cage. That's all I am doing in my duster and it currently has an illegal 6 point because we ran out of time

Im sure you could update what you have to run to 8.50, they are very simple

I know I'd be fine with an 8.50 cage. But I was looking at the NHRA 2017 rules. In the quick reference it says 7.50-9.99 25.x.

Not taken as am insult at all. I'm about $10k away from sub 8.50s lol those tenths are expensive. I don't plan on rebuilding my engine for nitrous or boost anytime soon. Just want to make sure my car is safe and legal.

Maybe I'm just reading the rules wrong?

Current cage.

This quick reference thru me off, looks different online than it did on my phone. The 25.x was inline with the 7.50-9.99 on my phone.

So I'm thinking x bars on the door, dash bar, and forward engine compartment bars and I'd be good right?

Looks like only a rocker bar would be needed if all your existing tubes are the correct diameters

If that's 1.625 pipe now, your already legal for 8.50

Should be good, it's a chassis engineering kit. .134 wall 1 5/8".

So the engine compartment bars aren't needed?

Don't need a rocker bar unless the floor is cut out and it has to be like 12 in or something..

Yeah you're good to go lol. Hey you've seen me and Jerry's cars with our shady 6pt bars lol we get away with it

NHRA makes no ruling on bay bars, it's kinda your choice and what you see fit. I have them for motor plate and possible wheel stands

No snout bars needed, those arent even required on a 25.5

I wanted to be able to go to other tracks too lol. GLD is very lenient.

I guess I should have consulted everyone before I went over board after looking at the new rule book on my phone lol.

Remember, verify all recommendations received on here!! Info is often wrong because many people make input based on memory. Check the black and white rules. I agree with some others above I believe you're in good shape to cert to 8.50. You have some work to do if you want to go to 7.50. Good Luck!!!!

The black and white rules are what made me write this post ha ha. I should have gotten clarification before I jumped to conclusions and thought I had to go extreme. 7.50 is where I'll need to go 25.x right? If that's the case, I won't have to worry about it.

If my cage is good you guys just saved me a ton of money and I'm now able to put it some where else.

Get it cert'd and your good for everywhere.

The only thing you might need to add to have your cage cert to 8.50 is a dash bar, since you have some of the tunnel and firewall altered.

I was going to put a dash bar in anyway so I have somewhere to run wiring and mount my electronics cleanly behind the dash.

If the stock rocker panels are there you don't need the sill bars.

Well all of the answers on the rocker bar as well as a das bar will be left up to the guy putting on the sticker. Been my experience that MANY will want to see the rocker and dash bar before they give it a sticker. Just seems to be the way any of the cart guys are especially out west. So we just put them in all cars. I know the rulebook says if firewall ad floor are intact they are not required but seen it a few times so we just do it

8.50 and slower is just a simple NHRA Sportsman tag. The NHRA rulebook is where those specifications can be found. SFI specs are not even in the picture until you go 8.49 and quicker or exceed 180MPH. Then a 25.x is needed. Doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't build a car to the 25.x spec if your not quite into the mid 8s yet.

My car has a 25.3 cert with stock floors installed if I knew how to post pictures I'd show you a few

Kevin

I would like to see them.
Camera or cell phone?

PM sent

Some of Kevin's car.

Thanks Jericogtx

Kevin

Even with the stock stuff on this car it has the bars in the rockers and dash...If you are going that far why don't you get rid of all of that stock stuff for ease of maintenance?

Cause it looks cool

Cause sheet metal dashes look horrible. Remember a lot of these cars are being built for heads up racing that requires the dash be intact.

My intentions with my car are to be able to drive it to the car shows, run KOS which entitles all working lights, insurance the usual stuff.
In Ontario Canada we need signal light indicators, high beam indicators, speedo to work.
Plus the factory dash looks way better then a fabricated dash ever did but that's my opinion

Kevin

Mine too. I like the stock look. Plenty of Super Stock cars out there that have to keep the stock dash. I've seen some creative ways to make the stock sheet metal dash lightweight and removable with quarter turn fasteners, etc., to access wiring, the transmission or whatever. Just takes some planning, time and fabrication. Rulebook doesn't say it can't be removable, just that it has to be there.

Actually the dash in my car is removable right where the A pillar bars go into the dash is were it seperates.
It is nice for working on the wiring and installation of electrical components, no more laying on your back with feet on the passenger seat.

Kevin

If you want to lighten the dash you can send it away and get it acid dipped.
My front end is all acid dipped and weighs 50% of what it did originally

Kevin

I took off 3 lbs from the stock dash frame by trimming the fat, opening up holes behind the hidden pads, and drilling holes that can't be seen. Or you can buy a fiberglass dash from Glasstek...